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Montour Injured

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3 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Do people still want to trade Ristolainen even though that could lead to opening the season with Jake McCabe on his off hand or Casey Nelson on the top pair? 

Think you're forgetting about someone...

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Just now, WildCard said:

Think you're forgetting about someone...

Do you mean Dahlin? In my scenario Dahlin plays top pair on the left side and with Ristolainen being traded for a bag of magic beans and Montour and Bogosian being on the shelf, I don't know who else would play top pair on the right side.

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1 minute ago, Drunkard said:

Do you mean Dahlin? In my scenario Dahlin plays top pair on the left side and with Ristolainen being traded for a bag of magic beans and Montour and Bogosian being on the shelf, I don't know who else would play top pair on the right side.

Ah my mistake. I read that as McCabe and Nelson would be the top pair together

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12 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Ah my mistake. I read that as McCabe and Nelson would be the top pair together

No worries, man. I guess they could play McCabe on the left and Dahlin on the right which wouldn't be a bad pairing, but I'd cringe to see what the rest of the depth chart would look like in that scenario. Scandella, Nelson, and a bunch of AHL caliber guys I'm guessing.

Edited by Drunkard

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2 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

No worries, man. I guess they could play McCabe on the left and Dahlin on the right which wouldn't be a bad pairing, but I'd cringe to see what the rest of the depth chart would look like in that scenario. Scandella, Nelson, and a bunch of AHL caliber guys I'm guessing.

And if the coaching, system and in game adjustments are better than Housley’s genius... most, if not all our  D will look better overall this season. Not judging the first month or two, but overall over the course of an entire season. 

One can hope that’s the case.

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1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

One can hope

The phrase upon which all of Buffalo fandom is based.

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7 hours ago, Drunkard said:

Do people still want to trade Ristolainen even though that could lead to opening the season with Jake McCabe on his off hand or Casey Nelson on the top pair? I'm sure GMJB would get like 4 middling pieces for Ristolainen including a mediocre center, some cap dumps, and a conditional first round pick that might suit up for the Sabres by the time Eichel is 30.  

Montour is going to be ok.

So we have Dahlin, McCabe, Scandella on the left to start, and Montour, Risto, Nelson on the right. I assume Bogo is third pair when he gets back. If they trade Risto for a forward, I think it's a necessity that Botterill brings a capable 2RD. 

If Botterill trades Ristolainen he must think he can fill that spot with a reasonably priced acquisition. I don't think Bogo being hurt affects the situation because Botterill would have to be crazy to rely on Bogo on the second pair, in lieu of Risto, anyways. 

Edited by Thorny

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48 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Per Sabres PR

Montour has a MCL Sprain, recovery time six weeks 

Sounds reasonable. I tore my MCL and was back climbing iron at a similar time frame. I’m a working grunt though vs a multi millionaire hockey player so I’m assuming he’s getting a little extra time to be at 100%...we grunts get tossed back out there like fodder....we don’t have the same value.

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18 hours ago, Thorny said:

Montour is going to be ok.

So we have Dahlin, McCabe, Scandella on the left to start, and Montour, Risto, Nelson on the right. I assume Bogo is third pair when he gets back. If they trade Risto for a forward, I think it's a necessity that Botterill brings a capable 2RD. 

If Botterill trades Ristolainen he must think he can fill that spot with a reasonably priced acquisition. I don't think Bogo being hurt affects the situation because Botterill would have to be crazy to rely on Bogo on the second pair, in lieu of Risto, anyways. 

I guess you just have more faith in GMJB than I do. I don't have that level of confidence in him.

Botterill thought he could replace O'Reilly with some combination of Mittelstadt, Berglund, and Sobotka or other internal guys and that turned out to be a huge mistake so whatever his reasonably priced acquisition is to replace Ristolainen is just going to worsen the talent level even further. I think the best we could even hope for in that scenario is a stay at home d-man who is better than Ristolainen at defending but the odds are that the guy won't have the offense he does and that's fine as long as he can skate and defend.

Now it looks like Montour will be fine but has he ever been relied on for first pairing duties? We know Ristolainen struggles with it and should be in a more offensive oriented role, but what happens if HCRK puts Montour on the top pair and he struggles with his defensive assignments? Now you're looking for Ristolainen's bargain bin/value replacement to fill in on the top pair which has the potential to be a disaster.

Edited by Drunkard

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7 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I guess you just have more faith in GMJB than I do. I don't have that level of confidence in him.

Botterill thought he could replace O'Reilly with some combination of Mittelstadt, Berglund, and Sobotka or other internal guys and that turned out to be a huge mistake so whatever his reasonably priced acquisition is to replace Ristolainen is just going to worsen the talent level even further. I think the best we could even hope for in that scenario is a stay at home d-man who is better than Ristolainen at defending but the odds are that the guy won't have the offense he does and that's fine as long as he can skate and defend.

Now it looks like Montour will be fine but has he ever been relied on for first pairing duties? We know Ristolainen struggles with it and should be in a more offensive oriented role, but what happens if HCRK puts Montour on the top pair and he struggles with his defensive assignments? Now you're looking for Ristolainen's bargain bin/value replacement to fill in on the top pair which has the potential to be a disaster.

I think you don't need 2 guys on a pair that are the offensive guys. Dahlin can drive his own pair. You could put a McCabe level guy with Dahlin and be set. Montour is the same, he can drive the 2nd pair. So you can literally put the McCabe level guy with him. The third pair will have Pilut and ? Risto would fit there if you keep him. 

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2 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I guess you just have more faith in GMJB than I do. I don't have that level of confidence in him.

Botterill thought he could replace O'Reilly with some combination of Mittelstadt, Berglund, and Sobotka or other internal guys and that turned out to be a huge mistake so whatever his reasonably priced acquisition is to replace Ristolainen is just going to worsen the talent level even further. I think the best we could even hope for in that scenario is a stay at home d-man who is better than Ristolainen at defending but the odds are that the guy won't have the offense he does and that's fine as long as he can skate and defend.

Now it looks like Montour will be fine but has he ever been relied on for first pairing duties? We know Ristolainen struggles with it and should be in a more offensive oriented role, but what happens if HCRK puts Montour on the top pair and he struggles with his defensive assignments? Now you're looking for Ristolainen's bargain bin/value replacement to fill in on the top pair which has the potential to be a disaster.

This is a fair point, definitely. It'll depend on who the replacement is. I mean if Risto is traded and Bogosian is penciled in on the second pair, it's doomed from the start. 

I was more speaking to the fact that I think common sense dictates Risto's spot will need to be filled with an addition if he's moved. Can't say for sure Botterill would adequately fill it, though, to your point. 

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2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you don't need 2 guys on a pair that are the offensive guys. Dahlin can drive his own pair. You could put a McCabe level guy with Dahlin and be set. Montour is the same, he can drive the 2nd pair. So you can literally put the McCabe level guy with him. The third pair will have Pilut and ? Risto would fit there if you keep him. 

The problem is, who's that McCabe level guy that can play next to Dahlin? As good Dahlin is, that player will need to play huge minutes. It can't be McCabe on his off-hand, that won't be good enough. 

For now I think it needs to be Montour, depending on who is brought in to replace Ristolainen. 

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21 hours ago, Thorny said:

Montour is going to be ok.

So we have Dahlin, McCabe, Scandella on the left to start, and Montour, Risto, Nelson on the right. I assume Bogo is third pair when he gets back. If they trade Risto for a forward, I think it's a necessity that Botterill brings a capable 2RD. 

If Botterill trades Ristolainen he must think he can fill that spot with a reasonably priced acquisition. I don't think Bogo being hurt affects the situation because Botterill would have to be crazy to rely on Bogo on the second pair, in lieu of Risto, anyways. 

So where does Borgen fit, he showed well at the end of the year..?

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Just stopping in to say I LOVED the Dahlin Montour pairing near the end of last year.  Two crazy high-end mobile D who can make the long pass?  Ya I'll happily play them 24 min a night and get Risto/McCabe playing 20.

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2 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

So where does Borgen fit, he showed well at the end of the year..?

He's in the mix for me with the Nelsons and Bogosians for the 3rd RD spot. 

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Just now, Thorny said:

He's in the mix for me with the Nelsons and Bogosians for the 3rd RD spot. 

Bogo can slot second til he gets hurt and hopefully buys enough time til Borgen takes next step which he showed signs that he can...

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3 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Bogo can slot second til he gets hurt and hopefully buys enough time til Borgen takes next step which he showed signs that he can...

I'm not comfortable with Bogosian on the second pair, and especially not for counting on him to even be there for that spot. 

If this team is serious about making the playoffs they can't go into the season with a right side D consisting of Montour/Bogosian/Borgen (assumes a Risto trade w/o a suitable D replacement being added - Montour/Ristolainen/Borgosian is good by me)

Edited by Thorny
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27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is a fair point, definitely. It'll depend on who the replacement is. I mean if Risto is traded and Bogosian is penciled in on the second pair, it's doomed from the start. 

I was more speaking to the fact that I think common sense dictates Risto's spot will need to be filled with an addition if he's moved. Can't say for sure Botterill would adequately fill it, though, to your point. 

Yep. It all hinges on Botterill and whether he can make good deals like the ones that brought in Montour and Skinner or if he'll make bad deals like the ones sending O'Reilly and Kane out the door. I think the Skinner deal fell into his lap so I'm not all that optimistic that he can fill holes with trades without creating even bigger holes elsewhere. I'd like him to prove me wrong although I'd prefer he not trade Ristolainen to do it. I'd love to see Ristolainen treated like a Shattenkirk or other offense first type dman and see how he responds. Ristolainen plays the role of a good soldier who doesn't piss and moan even though he was thrown into the deep end of the pool almost immediately, but his track record shows he's not capable of performing well as a top pairing defenseman. Every coach he's had in the NHL so far has used him that way though. I hope Kreuger is the first to scale back his duties and let him play an easier role.

Edited by Drunkard

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