Nashville defense vs Sabres defense

[SDS]

I don’t watch anyone but the home team. I’m hoping some of youse guys might be able to compare and contrast. 

My imoression is that Phil is trying to duplicate what they had in Nashville. At least in defense. It worked great for them. 

What did they do differently that made them so successful?

[North Buffalo]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

I don’t watch anyone but the home team. I’m hoping some of youse guys might be able to compare and contrast. 

My imoression is that Phil is trying to duplicate what they had in Nashville. At least in defense. It worked great for them. 

What did they do differently that made them so successful?

Good question... for one their forwards are more physical and get back and can play defense effectively when the D jump up... Scandella is a pilon so he should not be included... Sabres are still 4 forwards away from being a complete team and oh btw the Sabres are still very young.  

[Claude Balls]

16 minutes ago, SDS said:

I don’t watch anyone but the home team. I’m hoping some of youse guys might be able to compare and contrast. 

My imoression is that Phil is trying to duplicate what they had in Nashville. At least in defense. It worked great for them. 

What did they do differently that made them so successful?

They had much more talented d-men too. Dahlin will only get better and Montour is a much better fit for what Phil want's to do. I know Beaulieu crapped where he ate so was in the doghouse and was shipped out, but he was a better fit for the system than Scandella.

[PerreaultForever]

Subban put them over the top. Dahlin will for us, but not yet. When Housley got here we had the worst D in the league imo so it doesn't happen over night. It's much better now but still a work in progress. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 hours ago, Claude Balls said:

They had much more talented d-men too. Dahlin will only get better and Montour is a much better fit for what Phil want's to do. I know Beaulieu crapped where he ate so was in the doghouse and was shipped out, but he was a better fit for the system than Scandella.

This made me laugh.

Are you really in Rear Balls Creek?

I would think so, no one could just make that name up.

Welcome!!  Always nice to meet a fellow Bluenoser.

[Carmel Corn]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Subban put them over the top. Dahlin will for us, but not yet. When Housley got here we had the worst D in the league imo so it doesn't happen over night. It's much better now but still a work in progress. 

I would add having Shea Weber (before Subban) was a pretty good anchor as well.  Different type of game, but clearly a player who can be a foundation for a strong D-corp.   I am referring back to the years when Housley was still there....not today.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Carmel Corn

[Claude Balls]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

This made me laugh.

Are you really in Rear Balls Creek?

I would think so, no one could just make that name up.

Welcome!!  Always nice to meet a fellow Bluenoser.

Actually I'm in WNY, but couldn't pass up that location name when I heard of it. Fits my screen name quite well too. I was also a member here a few years ago but lost/forgot all my login info so had to start from scratch. Thanks for the re- welcome ?

[...]

Better talent that can make accurate passes, will hit when necessary, and maintains puck possession.  That's offense and defense.  They have four offensive lines that can score.  Their D will clear the zone more efficiently.

[...]

I can tell you that of our players, those who would look stupid in Nashville are: Risto, Bogo, Scandella, Girgensons, Sobotka, KO, Pommenstein, Hunwick, Tage, and Sheary.  I haven't seen enough of Nelson, O'Regan and Wilson to say.

[SwampD]

I think the difference between Nashville's defense and ours is goaltending. I hate Phil's style of defense. It's all about getting in passing lanes and letting the goaltender take care of the shot. Even in close. It's baffling to me. They never go after the body. Even in close.

[JJFIVEOH]

27 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I think the difference between Nashville's defense and ours is goaltending. I hate Phil's style of defense. It's all about getting in passing lanes and letting the goaltender take care of the shot. Even in close. It's baffling to me. They never go after the body. Even in close.

The difference is goaltending? Hutton started almost half the season last year for Nashville and was #1 in the league in save percentage. 

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

The difference is goaltending? Hutton started almost half the season last year for Nashville and was #1 in the league in save percentage. 

Hutton started almost half the season in Nashville last year and had the #1 league sv%.... wow that's impressive. For several reasons. Most of them involve that entire sentence being b###s##t.

 

I am taking a break, we aren't even arguing using reality anymore around here. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by LGR4GM

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

The difference is goaltending? Hutton started almost half the season last year for Nashville and was #1 in the league in save percentage. 

k. He's not leading the league this year and looks shaky often. 

Re-watch every goal last night. The only time we physically engage an opposing player while on D is along the boards. Everywhere else, they actively leave the guy with the puck alone and care more about the passing lanes, even in close. It's weird and it has to be coached. And it's not working.

[dudacek]

He surprised me early, but Hutton has proven to be what I thought he was when we signed him: a good backup.

I don't blame him because I don't expect him to be a difference-maker.

But one of the biggest factors in the way the worm has turned is that he was a difference maker early and he's not now.

Edited February 27, 2019 by dudacek

[JJFIVEOH]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Hutton started almost half the season in Nashville last year and had the #1 league sv%.... wow that's impressive. For several reasons. Most of them involve that entire sentence being b###s##t.

 

I am taking a break, we aren't even arguing using reality anymore around here. 

What do you mean by that?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

What do you mean by that?

The only part of your sentence that is grounded in fact is the sv% part. Of course that is interesting because you aren't using a games started minimum for that so even that is questionable. You go do your own research and figure out the rest. 

[...]

19 minutes ago, SwampD said:

k. He's not leading the league this year and looks shaky often. 

Re-watch every goal last night. The only time we physically engage an opposing player while on D is along the boards. Everywhere else, they actively leave the guy with the puck alone and care more about the passing lanes, even in close. It's weird and it has to be coached. And it's not working.

It's not coached.  It's something else.  This problem has been occurring with this team for a decade or longer.

[SwampD]

11 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

What do you mean by that?

He only started a quarter of the season,... and for St Louis.

[JJFIVEOH]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The only part of your sentence that is grounded in fact is the sv% part. Of course that is interesting because you aren't using a games started minimum for that so even that is questionable. You go do your own research and figure out the rest. 

My only point was Swamp said the only difference between Nashville and BFLO was goaltending, so I pointed out that we've both used the same goaltender for a good portion of the season. You're reading way too much into what I said. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

My only point was Swamp said the only difference between Nashville and BFLO was goaltending, so I pointed out that we've both used the same goaltender for a good portion of the season. You're reading way too much into what I said. 

This isn't true. At all. 0% true. 

LIGER, out. 

[JJFIVEOH]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

He only started a quarter of the season,... and for St Louis.

True, but he was in net for Nashville as a backup when Nashville was arguably better defensively than they are now. 

Personally I think Hutton isn't starter material. Our defense needs a lot of work. But, I think our defense is a lot more talented than it appears. In my opinion, Housley is much like Goober Bylsma in that he's pushing a system on the players, instead of acknowledging each players talent and building around that. Teams do better when you let the players excel where they are best instead of making them do something they might not be as good at. 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

True, but he was in net for Nashville as a backup when Nashville was arguably better defensively than they are now. 

Personally I think Hutton isn't starter material. Our defense needs a lot of work. But, I think our defense is a lot more talented than it appears. In my opinion, Housley is much like Goober Bylsma in that he's pushing a system on the players, instead of acknowledging each players talent and building around that. Teams do better when you let the players excel where they are best instead of making them do something they might not be as good at. 

So you're now talking about the 2013-2014 season? Go do some basic research before posting fake comparisons. 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, ... said:

Better talent that can make accurate passes, will hit when necessary, and maintains puck possession.  That's offense and defense.  They have four offensive lines that can score.  Their D will clear the zone more efficiently.

One thing I noticed the Eichel line doing yesterday was what I would call "zone passing."  When the Philly D collapsed on them, they would swing it hard to the other side of the ice, maybe not to the forward on that side, but into an area where the forward was likely to recover it.  It looked ragged at times but enabled them to hold the zone (and even resulted in Eichel's goal).

As someone living in Detroit in the mid-90s and watching the Red Wings, they did a lot of that.  Zone passing enables a team to move the puck around very quickly without losing possession.  Once linemates learn each other's tendencies they can better anticipate the zone pass and be able to be in better position to receive it... and the passer has a better idea of where the receiver is, and you end up seeing what appear to be blind passes going tape-to-tape.  Eichel and Skinner are getting there, Reino can keep up.  Okposo, of all players, seems to try that as well, but his linemates aren't quick enough to jump on the zone passes he makes before the D do.  The secret is to just keep the puck moving until you find an opening in the defense.

Bringing it back to the discussion at hand, you also see Dahlin and to a lesser extent Risto jumping on those zone passes.  That only works consistently if the wing on the side of the pinching D covers the point.  That's what Phil's referring to when he's talking about the D stepping up offensively. 

The NHL today moves to fast to look for a teammate to pass to.  You have to pass it before you look.  So you have to know where your teammates are likely to be rather than where they are.  Another good example of that was the Reino PP goal against Toronto.  The passes leading up to that were all fast, and to areas where the players ought to be rather than looking for the player and passing it to him.

It all comes down to learning the system, and then executing it without even thinking about it.  When we can do that, the defense will look much better and the offense will come around.  Talent is important, but vision is also vital.

[...]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

One thing I noticed the Eichel line doing yesterday was what I would call "zone passing."  When the Philly D collapsed on them, they would swing it hard to the other side of the ice, maybe not to the forward on that side, but into an area where the forward was likely to recover it.  It looked ragged at times but enabled them to hold the zone (and even resulted in Eichel's goal).

As someone living in Detroit in the mid-90s and watching the Red Wings, they did a lot of that.  Zone passing enables a team to move the puck around very quickly without losing possession.  Once linemates learn each other's tendencies they can better anticipate the zone pass and be able to be in better position to receive it... and the passer has a better idea of where the receiver is, and you end up seeing what appear to be blind passes going tape-to-tape.  Eichel and Skinner are getting there, Reino can keep up.  Okposo, of all players, seems to try that as well, but his linemates aren't quick enough to jump on the zone passes he makes before the D do.  The secret is to just keep the puck moving until you find an opening in the defense.

Bringing it back to the discussion at hand, you also see Dahlin and to a lesser extent Risto jumping on those zone passes.  That only works consistently if the wing on the side of the pinching D covers the point.  That's what Phil's referring to when he's talking about the D stepping up offensively. 

The NHL today moves to fast to look for a teammate to pass to.  You have to pass it before you look.  So you have to know where your teammates are likely to be rather than where they are.  Another good example of that was the Reino PP goal against Toronto.  The passes leading up to that were all fast, and to areas where the players ought to be rather than looking for the player and passing it to him.

It all comes down to learning the system, and then executing it without even thinking about it.  When we can do that, the defense will look much better and the offense will come around.  Talent is important, but vision is also vital.

...and this is how Nashville plays.  It's the offense and defense working together.  In the playoffs they're amazing to watch.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 hours ago, Claude Balls said:

Actually I'm in WNY, but couldn't pass up that location name when I heard of it. Fits my screen name quite well too. I was also a member here a few years ago but lost/forgot all my login info so had to start from scratch. Thanks for the re- welcome ?

Let me be the first, and probably only one, to tell you that Rear Balls Creek is a real place and it's awesome.

Is you last name 'Balls' a tribute to your adopted home town, or a shout out to any number of former, possibly current, Sabre players?  Maybe you just liked the sound of it so much that you had to use it as your name and not just location, eh?

Edited February 27, 2019 by New Scotland (NS)
all those missing letters ...