Scoring woes

[dudacek]

Saw an interesting stat as I watched Ryan Miller shut out the Canucks last night.

 

Evander Kane is tied for fourth in the league as the player who had scored the highest percentage of his team’s goals. What was particularly interesting was that the guy he is tied with is Jack Eichel. And neither is among the top 25 goal scorers in the league.

 

The two of them combined have accounted for 35 per cent of our goals this year, more than one in three. The rest of the team has scored just 56 goals combined!

 

The Sabres are dead last in scoring - just 86 goals in 39 games. We are seven goals back of the next worse team and 28 teams have scored at least 100.

 

We talk about Jack not doing enough and how the team shouldn’t spend money on Evander.

Can you imagine how terrible we would be without them?

 

This - not Lehner, not the D core - is by far our biggest problem. We have miles to go just to be average.

How are we going to fix it?

Edited January 4, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[LGR4GM]

All the truth here.

[Crusader1969]

Casey Mittelstadt?

[LGR4GM]

Casey Mittelstadt?

Not enough. We need scoring from ROR, Reinhart, and Okposo too. Also the defense. There's not enough talent on the team.

[erickompositör72]

There's not enough talent on the team.

 

I actually don't agree with this. There are many proven NHL'ers on our team, and have all shown flashes that they still have "it"

 

I think it's all Housley learning on the job. I think he'll get it, though, and we'll be good. But he's no prodigy-coach; it will take everyone time to figure it out, "buy-in," etc.

 

Plus, our defense was not healthy for the first 20+ games. This put the whole "learning the system," chemistry with pairings, etc., even more behind schedule for the d-parings than the forwards.

Edited January 4, 2018 by erickompositör72

[Crusader1969]

Not enough. We need scoring from ROR, Reinhart, and Okposo too. Also the defense. There's not enough talent on the team.

True and true. Why I'm wanting 1 more high draft pick.

 

How about Mittelstadt, Guhle, Nylander and Dahlin? Plus high end prospect acquired in Kane trade

[Weave]

. There's not enough talent on the team.

 

I don't agree with this either.  I don't know what the problem is, but I am not convinced talent is it. 

 

Pre-season there was all kinds of talk of our 3rd line being a mismatch for other teams' 3rd lines.  Obviously, there was a perception that we had plenty of talent if we thought that it extended into the 3rd line strong enough to create mismatches.  What changed to that talent?

 

It is puzzling to me.  I think something intangible is deficient.

[Thorny]

I don't agree with this either. I don't know what the problem is, but I am not convinced talent is it.

 

Pre-season there was all kinds of talk of our 3rd line being a mismatch for other teams' 3rd lines. Obviously, there was a perception that we had plenty of talent if we thought that it extended into the 3rd line strong enough to create mismatches. What changed to that talent?

 

It is puzzling to me. I think something intangible is deficient.

It's because we looked at lineup projections and saw a guy like Reinhart, a #2 overall, coming off two pretty good seasons, listed on line 3. That looked like a mismatch. Instead his play has barely lived up to line 3 quality. Or we thought guys like Baptiste and Bailey and Fasching would excel in a bottom 6 role with less expectations. They failed. There are other examples, too.

 

The perception was wrong: we are severely lacking talent. At least while all those players are underperforming. So they need to improve, or be replaced.

 

Botterill has a lot of work to do.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bjorn Borg

[Crusader1969]

Bailey only played 7 games before getting hurt. Had 2 goals and an assist. Which for the Sabres is pretty decent.

 

I still see a really good 3rd / 4th line player in him. Just needs to be consistent bringing it physically each and every night Still a young power forward with potential

[Weave]

Eichel #2 overall, ROR 33rd overall, Kane 4th overall, Bogo 3rd overall, Risto 8th overall, Samson, 2nd overall, Girgensons 14th overall, Okposo 7th overall, Poulliot 4th overall, Beaulieu 17th overall, Josefson 20th overall,

 

This is the exact blueprint that went out to season ticket holders to justify "suffering".  It was all about the collection of as much 1st round draft pick talent as possible.  I can't imagine a team in this league with more draft pedigree.  There is a ton of talent on this team. 

[Crusader1969]

Eichel #2 overall, ROR 33rd overall, Kane 4th overall, Bogo 3rd overall, Risto 8th overall, Samson, 2nd overall, Girgensons 14th overall, Okposo 7th overall, Poulliot 4th overall, Beaulieu 17th overall, Josefson 20th overall,

 

This is the exact blueprint that went out to season ticket holders to justify "suffering".  It was all about the collection of as much 1st round draft pick talent as possible.  I can't imagine a team in this league with more draft pedigree.  There is a ton of talent on this team.

 

Can't argue with that. They should be scoring more.

[dudacek]

I’m inclined to agree with We’ve.

 

Scandella 11

Risto 9

Bogo 10

O’Reilly 28

Reinhart 23

Okposo 27

Zemgus 15

Larsson 10

 

None of those guys are old, but none are going to come close to these goal totals.

Nobody is having a career-type year, quite the opposite.

 

Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Rodrigues, Beaulieu, Antipin - each are young guys who have shown a degree of scoring potential elsewhere. They’ve shown absolutely nothing in Buffalo.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[SwampD]

I blame wings.

 

There should be a full ban on any player eating wings during the season.

1st offense - $5k fine for each wing.

2nd offense - $50k fine for each wing.

There will not be a 3rd offense.

 

Ban will be lifted for the Christmas break.

[LGR4GM]

I’m inclined to agree with We’ve.

 

Scandella 11

Risto 9

Bogo 10

O’Reilly 28

Reinhart 23

Okposo 27

Zemgus 15

Larsson 10

 

None of those guys are old, but none are going to come close to these goal totals.

Nobody is having a career-type year, quite the opposite.

 

Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Rodrigues, Beaulieu, Antipin - each are young guys who have shown a degree of scoring potential elsewhere. They’ve shown absolutely nothing in Buffalo.

Then, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[StuckinFL]

I think its conditioning and drive. It's a room of individuals who don't know how to work with each other and don't put in the work while they're away from the ice.

[Thorny]

Eichel #2 overall, ROR 33rd overall, Kane 4th overall, Bogo 3rd overall, Risto 8th overall, Samson, 2nd overall, Girgensons 14th overall, Okposo 7th overall, Poulliot 4th overall, Beaulieu 17th overall, Josefson 20th overall,

 

This is the exact blueprint that went out to season ticket holders to justify "suffering". It was all about the collection of as much 1st round draft pick talent as possible. I can't imagine a team in this league with more draft pedigree. There is a ton of talent on this team.

 

I think there might be a misconception about what kind of draft status the rosters of others teams have. I took a look at my hometown team's roster, the Jets: 12 first round picks on their 22 skater roster.

 

So there's a team with more right off the bat. Most teams have a bunch of first rounders, we aren't special because we have Pouliot and Josefson and Girgensons and Reinhart and Bogosian. It's always mentioned how comparitively rare it is for 2nd and 3rd rounders to make the NHL. It's primarily a league of first rounders.

 

Now compare their firsts with the list you posted: Scheifele, Wheeler, Laine, Ehlers, Connor, Little, Armia, Dano, Trouba, Morrissey, Myers, Kulikov.

 

Their list looks a lot better. We lack talent.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bjorn Borg

[Thorny]

And as a further counterpoint, even a team with less first round picks, the Penguins, are clearly a more talented team than the Sabres. Because of the high end production they get from the high picks they do have, and the talent they acquired in later rounds. The point being, we can't assume we have enough talent just because we have a collection of firsts on the roster. So much more goes into it.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bjorn Borg

[North Buffalo]

And as a further counterpoint, even a team with less first round picks, the Penguins, are clearly a more talented team than the Sabres. Because of the high end production they get from the high picks they do have, and the talent they acquired in later rounds. The point being, we can't assume we have enough talent just because we have a collection of firsts on the roster. So much more goes into it.

Agreed which is why so much has been argued about that Murray’s later round picks are questionable as a much as the Nylander pic is a disappointment given the alternatives. Perceived talent is one thing... heart and drive is another. At the NHL level all three are needed and lacking in one can be a detriment... see Reinhardt... to affable... he needs some snarl and not be just happy to be here though I think I see some coming he needs a little more rat in him.

[jsb]

I've mentioned this before although this is a small sample

We are 4-3-5 in our last 12 games

In 10 of those contests we've give up 2 or less goals in regulation time

In those same contests when we've scored 3 or more in regulation we are 3-0-1

 

OUR #1 PROBLEM IS WE DON'T SCORE ENOUGH

 

Reinhart has 12 points so far this year. 6 on the power play. He's on pace to score 12 5v5 points for the year. 

Start right there as to what our problem is although he's far from alone.

[PASabreFan]

I blame wings.

 

There should be a full ban on any player eating wings during the season.

1st offense - $5k fine for each wing.

2nd offense - $50k fine for each wing.

There will not be a 3rd offense.

 

Ban will be lifted for the Christmas break.

Before reading this thread — while trying to meditate after listening to a story on meditation on the radio this morning — I thought about that time Terry had the players tested for food allergies. (For those who are curious, I was doing pretty well with the meditation, then I had a thought that the players should meditate, and that took me to Terry.)

[dudacek]

We can’t create odd man rushes, we can’t blast away from the point, and we can’t crash the net with authority.

To paraphrase Harry Neale, our biggest problem is finding another way to score.

[PASabreFan]

Housley's mantra ("get pucks on net!") (coaching to possession?) doesn't seem to be working.

 

The more interesting question might be why this has been a problem across multiple decades in Buffalo. One obvious angle would seem to be that small market Buffalo can't afford to score goals — literally. That would not seem to be an issue under TPegs. But there is a mindset here and it has existed for many, many years, maybe since the 1980s, that the team should reflect the working class, blue collar, lunch bucket community. Rockem Sabres, Hardest Working Team in Hockey... with a few respites during the LaFontaine and post-lockout eras.

 

Terry came in saying he liked "hard working, gritty players."

 

There's something in the water.

And add to all that a tradition of fine goaltending, almost a goaltending fetish here. Perhaps a philosophy is ingrained to build from the goal out and hope to win games 2-1.

[bunomatic]

Scoring 5 on 5 is dreadful but is there any conceivable reason our power play has gone from first to worst with the same guys we had last season manning it ? My answer is coaching. Whether its Housley as head coach or the fact they let the guy go that was running it it still comes down to coaching.

[erickompositör72]

... is there any conceivable reason our power play has gone from first to worst with the same guys we had last season manning it ? My answer is coaching.

 

+1

 

And, at the beginning of the season, it seems like they were so excited with Housley's talk of playing a "fast, aggressive, attacking" style, that they subconsciously concluded they didn't have to play defense anymore.

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

I blame wings.

 

There should be a full ban on any player eating wings during the season.

1st offense - $5k fine for each wing.

2nd offense - $50k fine for each wing.

There will not be a 3rd offense.

 

Ban will be lifted for the Christmas break.

 

You're a monster.

 

Although, if you want to spin this into hockey terms, maybe eating wings is exactly what this team needs. Maybe the threat of cannibalization would finally but these players on notice? If I'm a Sabre, if being forced to butcher and eat Reinhart for his underwhelming performance doesn't kick my ass into gear, nothing will. (Not to mention the possible team bonding activities that the meal prep process would entail...)