Ranking the Sabres: who are our most valuable assets?

[GASabresIUFAN]

The problem with Kane and now Okposo is injuries and big pay checks. Kane inconsistent play, attitude and injury history all work against his value. With only 1 year remaining on his contract at a highish amount, I don't think his market is all that great. If Jbot could have acquired some major asset for him, I think he'd have been traded already.

 

Okposo's resent concussion has to drop his value. We have all seen the excellent players diminished by concussions including Marc Savard, Horton, Ennis, Connolly, LaFontaine etc... KO is also being paid for years to come as a 60 pt a year player. Given his age, huge contract and concussion I doubt we get much for him in trade.

 

If we redo this list at the trade deadline and both guys prove healthy and perform well, their values could skyrocket.

 

That brings me to a young 20+ minute a game D with improving O who we have locked in for two more years at 1.6 per season. Talk about value. I think 30 teams would be lined up to get himfrom us if we were to put him on thr market. My vote is for McCabe.

 

I also like Guhle here. As our top D prospect in a league craving puck moving two way D, I think he'd garner great interest around the league if available. Just look at our discussions regarding trying to get Montour or Theodore from the Ducks.

Edited July 31, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Thorny]

Value isn't just defined by what we would get in a trade for given player. It's also what they would be able to provide for our team. McCabe's contrbution doesn't scratch the surface of what Kane or Okposo bring to our team.

 

When you drive a brand new car off the lot, the resale value immediately goes down. But to the owner of the vehicle, it's certainly still worth what he paid for it. I.e. - more than what it would fetch it a trade.

 

You're only talking about trade value.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Value isn't just defined by what we would get in a trade for given player. It's also what they would be able to provide for our team. McCabe's contrbution doesn't scratch the surface of what Kane or Okposo bring to our team.

There are alot less question marks about McCabe then either Kane or Okposo. In addition which of the three is likely to outperform their contract price?

 

One of the things I pointed out about the team last year was how few players outperformed their contract price. Of course Jack and Sam did. I'd argue that Risto did as well. McCabe was one of our biggest bargains last year and should be even more of a bargain this year. You have to look beyond gross production for value. Why were the Pens so good last year? Because of high producing cheap contract players like Sheary, Dumoulin and Guentzel. Besides McCabe, Lehner, and the 2 top 2 picks, we had no such players.

 

Kane and Okposo, while not the worst under performers, still under produced their contract prices and there is significant likelihood they will underproduce again this season. Last year, Okposo gave us 45 pts last year for 6 mil in cost. Not exactly a bargain. Kane, despite 28 goals only gave us 43 pts for 5.25. Not exactly a bargain either. Okposo has 6 years and 36 mil left on his deal. What happens to his value if he ends up like Tyler Ennis health wise? What is Kane's value to this organization if he reverts to his career averages of 65 games with .32 goals per game (20 goals) and .29 assists (19 assists) or basically what he did in 2015-16 for the Sabres? The answer is KO becomes a worse anchor on the team then Matt Moulson and Kane has virtually no value to the organization or in the trade market.

 

It's a sad statement on our team that after the top 4 players already mentioned (ROR also under performed his $8 mill price) that people here believe the next two most valuable players are two guys with injury and production issues.

 

One of the criticisms of Regier is that he overvalued his players. While some players have more value to their organization then their trade value, such as Mike Fisher in Nashville or true franchise players like Sid, McJesus and Jack, I'd argue that a players' market/trade value is the best evaluation of their value for the vast majority of players. I think Okposo and Kane are being overvalued here right now.

Edited July 31, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Thorny]

Kyle Okposo doesn't have production issues (and neither, really, does Kane - 28 goals is 28 goals). Okposo has been a 60 point player his entire career. His health record isn't that bad either, assuming of course he truly has returned to full health from his concussion/meds issue, as he says he has.

 

Okposo is a bonafide first line RW. I don't think we are overvaluing him.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Thorny

[Thorny]

Besides, I voted Mittelstadt. He'd fetch far more in a trade than Guhle or McCabe.

[dudacek]

Besides, I voted Mittelstadt. He'd fetch far more in a trade than Guhle or McCabe.

You ain't getting a first-rounder for either of those two, let alone pick eight.

[TrueBlueGED]

Value isn't just defined by what we would get in a trade for given player. It's also what they would be able to provide for our team. McCabe's contrbution doesn't scratch the surface of what Kane or Okposo bring to our team.

 

When you drive a brand new car off the lot, the resale value immediately goes down. But to the owner of the vehicle, it's certainly still worth what he paid for it. I.e. - more than what it would fetch it a trade.

 

You're only talking about trade value.

 

Maybe I'm misreading the question, then, because I definitely see "asset" and "value around the league" and think trade value.

[Thorny]

You ain't getting a first-rounder for either of those two, let alone pick eight.

Agreed.

 

  

Maybe I'm misreading the question, then, because I definitely see "asset" and "value around the league" and think trade value.

This assumes that the market always dictates a fair or "appropriate" return. Value to one may not be value to others. One man's trash...

[Drunkard]

Besides, I voted Mittelstadt. He'd fetch far more in a trade than Guhle or McCabe.

That's a fair point but the fact that McCabe will be out there producing for us this season for such a low price while Guhle will be producing for Rochester and Mittelstadt is producing for a team Pegula doesn't even own tips the scales in McCabe's favor (for me at least). The fact that he's playing for the Sabres now (no discount rate as opposed to calculating future value) gives him added intrinsic value. Once the blue chippers graduate to the NHL their value will increase because their production will actually count for Buffalo.

 

I guess it's a question of value at this particular time or how far into the future you are factoring in.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Drunkard

[Thorny]

That's a fair point but the fact that McCabe will be out there producing for us this season for such a low price while Guhle will be producing for Rochester and Mittelstadt is producing for a team Pegula doesn't even own tips the scales in McCabe's favor (for me at least). The fact that he's playing for the Sabres now (no discount rate as opposed to calculating future value) gives him added intrinsic value. Once the blue chippers graduate to the NHL their value will increase because their production will actually count for Buffalo.

I guess it's a question of value at this particular time or how far into the future you are factoring in.

And how confident one is in a given player achieving his potential.

[dudacek]

Kane wins narrowly with 31 per cent of the vote.

 

Most valuable assets:

1. Eichel 2. O'Reilly 3. Ristolainen 4. Reinhart 5. Kane

 

The poll has been reset. Beaulieu added.

[Huckleberry]

Nylander, top 6 LW this year watch it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The question here is value to the Sabres.

Mittelstadt's only value is that he could bring back assets if traded.

Guhle's value is value back in trade plus as an injury fill in on the ice.

McCabe's value is not only the trade value which would be decent, but also the 20+ minutes he plays solid defensively with some added O while on the biggest bargain contract (non-elc) on the team.

 

If McCabe were a forward we received a bargain at only $80k per point. By comparison we paid KO 133K per point, Kane 122K per point, ROR 136K per point. In fact, only Girgensons cost us less per point last year (72k per pt) of players not on ELCs.

[LGR4GM]

Is McCabe top 4 on any team in the league? Honest question.

Maybe a better wording is, what teams would McCabe not be top 4 on? Anaheim, Nashville?

[Eleven]

Is McCabe top 4 on any team in the league? Honest question.

Maybe a better wording is, what teams would McCabe not be top 4 on? Anaheim, Nashville?

 

On most, yes.  And going by Dudacek's criteria, I think he has to come next.  Of the players remaining, I think he'd bring back the most in a trade.

[Derrico]

Wild?

[LGR4GM]

On most, yes.  And going by Dudacek's criteria, I think he has to come next.  Of the players remaining, I think he'd bring back the most in a trade.

 

 

Wild?

I am just thinking out loud. What team wouldn't want to trade for Jake McCabe and what team wouldn't he add value to their top 4. He's a steal for the Sabres, let alone a team like Pittsburgh for example.

[dudacek]

I don't think there is any question Okposo is more productive player or McCabe is the better contract.

I just don't see McCabe becoming as good at his job as Okposo is at his.

[Drunkard]

I don't think there is any question Okposo is more productive player or McCabe is the better contract.

I just don't see McCabe becoming as good at his job as Okposo is at his.

 

McCabe will likely be improving in the future where's that not the likely case for Okposo. For Okposo the best we can hope for is that he stays healthy and manages to maintain a performance plateau for the next few years while McCabe should still be trending up given that he's young and that defensemen peak later and age better to a certain extent.

 

If I had to give one up it would be Okposo 10 times out of 10.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't think there is any question Okposo is more productive player or McCabe is the better contract.

I just don't see McCabe becoming as good at his job as Okposo is at his.

Maybe not. I agree that McCabe might never be a top line D, but he is certainly a top 4 D, which are almost as hard to come by. Furthermore Okposo's concussion and the size and length of his contract are a negative to his value. The odds that he is a 60 pt scorer 4-5 years from now are almost zero.

 

So while KO is the better player when healthy, I actually think McCabe has more value to the Sabres. This fact is enhanced when you compare the depth in the organization. RW is our deepest position and D are weakest.

Edited August 1, 2017 by GASabresFan

[dudacek]

Given the direction of the debate, why isn't Scandella in the conversation?

He already is everything we hope McCabe can be and should remain at that level for another five years.

Only makes $4 million per, good value for his role.

Edited August 1, 2017 by dudacek

[Eleven]

Given the direction of the debate, why isn't Scandella in the conversation?

He already is everything we hope McCabe can be and should remain at that level for another five years.

Only makes $4 million per, good value for his role.

 

I'm not so sure about that, and McCabe is on an ELC.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm not so sure about that, and McCabe is on an ELC.

 

Isn't Jake on his second contract?

[dudacek]

I consider myself a big McCabe fan and think we haven't seen the best of what he has to offer yet.

I also think four years of watching the likes of Messy Balls, the Flying F brothers and the ghost of the ghost of Zach Bogosian and Josh Gorges has exagerated his ability in the eyes of many.

 

Isn't Jake on his second contract?

Yes. He is an RFA in two years. Scandella is a UFA in three. Edited August 1, 2017 by dudacek

[Eleven]

Oops.  Still, it's at 1.775.