Doohickie Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 The difference in these last two games were that the Sabres were more tenacious on the puck. If the other team had it, they covered them more closely, which much more active sticks. When the Sabres had it, they seemed more determined to not give it up (grinding the other team down is an apt description for hounding the puck like that). A lot of that was simply being more active with their sticks. I've noticed that they're positionally getting in sync more in terms of providing short outlet passes out of the D zone. It could be something as simple as not having Jack messed up his line, and the adjustments made messed up all the other lines and the team just wasn't playing with confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I saw probably 60% of the two games this weekend -- and the team looked, like -- the same in a lot of ways -- but somehow just a lot better in doing what they're doing. I keep thinking about what Blysma said in this piece from 24/7: I actually disagree. The only stretch passes they made the last two games were to try and spring players on breakaways. They were pumping out ten stretch passes per period the games before, all as attempts to rush the puck, almost all purposely chipped into the zone. The amount of forward (and Risto/Kulikov/McCabe) support in the neutral zone allowed loads of zone entries with possession and dangerous chances, and none of that was there in the first few games. They stopped spreading the whole width of the ice every rush, grouped together/staggered more instead. Three games ago, Girgensons' pass to Okposo on the first goal was a dump in and lost possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) I actually disagree. The only stretch passes they made the last two games were to try and spring players on breakaways. They were pumping out ten stretch passes per period the games before, all as attempts to rush the puck, almost all purposely chipped into the zone. The amount of forward (and Risto/Kulikov/McCabe) support in the neutral zone allowed loads of zone entries with possession and dangerous chances, and none of that was there in the first few games. They stopped spreading the whole width of the ice every rush, grouped together/staggered more instead. Three games ago, Girgensons' pass to Okposo on the first goal was a dump in and lost possession. Hmm. That is fair. The absence of stretch passes and the stationary forwards. Better spacing and grouping on the break out. It's possible that I'm conflating what I recall seeing last year with what I saw this weekend. There's no way for me to do it - practicably - but I just didn't feel as though I was watching a team playing a different style or system (and, really, how could I have been?). And that's probably true - they were playing the same style and system, just far more effectively. Your calls on there being far fewer stretch passes and better support in connection with zone entry are good ones. Those things are obviously built into this system as it's intended to be played. Good on you to identify some very specific ways in which the play improved. Edited October 31, 2016 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I hate that clip of Bylsma. Guy had a team with Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang...and there he is talking about grinding a team down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'm still skeptical and I'm still waiting to see what the team looks like with Jack and Evader are back. I see what you did there lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Congrats on the W... I was out hunting and forgot to tape the game... Anybody on the Jets stand out in a good or bad way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Congrats on the W... I was out hunting and forgot to tape the game... Anybody on the Jets stand out in a good or bad way? Armia stood around and did much of nothing including PP time. No Staff or Myers. Thornton suffered what looked to me like a serious shoulder injury. Your goalie sucked and was pulled halfway through the game and the Sabres are completely unable to hit an empty net form their end of the ice as proven by six attempts. The Jets are very fast team and lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsif Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 TrueBlueGED, on 30 Oct 2016 - 6:12 PM, said: In addition to being wrong, you realize this post is the functional definition of reactionary, right? Arguing against reactionism by being reactionary is, as the kids would say, a bold strategy. Do the kids say that? "It's a bold strategy, Cotton" That's what I always hear from my kids when I'm about to make a mistake............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Congrats on the W... I was out hunting and forgot to tape the game... Anybody on the Jets stand out in a good or bad way? I wasn't watching closely, but Laine had some great chances and played a veteran game, didn't look like a rookie at all. Scheifele was scary, Hutch was bad, and Burmistrov was terrible. Armia had a quietly effective day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I have seen a bit of a decline in dump-and-chase in favor of carrying it into the zone. My guess is that DDB's system calls for the offensive player to carry it in when he has space to do so, but otherwise to d-and-c. With the forwards getting more used to each other following line jumbling, it seems logical that this would lend itself to more carrying it in. Otherwise, I thought that was a very nice, professional performance by the Sabres. A few game notes: - The D looked poised and capable, 1 through 6. The addition of Kulikov has had a major impact. And while I know Gorges has his shortcomings, I saw him make good play after good play in the d-zone yesterday. - Foligno has been a beast the last few games. I think some people here were perhaps a bit too focused about the empty-net icings. With the 2-goal lead, I think the protocol on trying for the ENG is probably different from that of a 1-goal lead -- I think Foligno wasn't the only one who was called for it last night. And in any case that was just one snippet of a game in which he again was a powerful presence all over the ice, especially on the forecheck. I'm at the point where I want Foligno on the 3rd line for the foreseeable future. - Nice game for Lehner but I continue to be concerned that he gives up too many rebounds. - Zemgus and Ennis continue to show good jump and jam, but not enough finish. And I hate to say it, but I need more from Reino. DDB's criticism about him not keeping his feet moving is right on, IMHO. - ROR won 2 huge d-zone faceoffs on the PK and generally looks like he is developing nice chemistry with KO, who scored 2 goalscorer's goals. - Thankfully, I'm back to the point where I look forward to the next game instead of dreading it. The Sabres have a number of winnable games coming up -- Minny, Toronto, Ottawa, Boston, Ottawa, NJ, and NJ. If they keep carrying the mail like this, we could be looking at the right side of DeLuca .500. Go Sabres. Armia stood around and did much of nothing including PP time. . Armia had a quietly effective day. I kept waiting for Armia to do something and it never happened. I was surprised to see in the box score that he got 15 min of ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Disagree on Foligno. He can take the body and tie up a puck, but he never just wins battles outright. Larsson is the driving force of possession on that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think each member of that line has played incredibly well so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Armia stood around and did much of nothing including PP time. No Staff or Myers. Thornton suffered what looked to me like a serious shoulder injury. Your goalie sucked and was pulled halfway through the game and the Sabres are completely unable to hit an empty net form their end of the ice as proven by six attempts. The Jets are very fast team and lost. If you mean Thorburn, that can only help the team as he should never dress. I wasn't watching closely, but Laine had some great chances and played a veteran game, didn't look like a rookie at all. Scheifele was scary, Hutch was bad, and Burmistrov was terrible. Armia had a quietly effective day. scary good or scary bad? he hasn't been playing as well as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 - Foligno has been a beast the last few games. I think some people here were perhaps a bit too focused about the empty-net icings. With the 2-goal lead, I think the protocol on trying for the ENG is probably different from that of a 1-goal lead -- I think Foligno wasn't the only one who was called for it last night. And in any case that was just one snippet of a game in which he again was a powerful presence all over the ice, especially on the forecheck. I'm at the point where I want Foligno on the 3rd line for the foreseeable future. - Nice game for Lehner but I continue to be concerned that he gives up too many rebounds. I kept waiting for Armia to do something and it never happened. I was surprised to see in the box score that he got 15 min of ice time. Foligno always leaves me wanting more. He plays hard and has size, but he just doesn't have enough offensive skill and speed for this system IMO. You want your third line wingers to contribute more offensively... maybe he's a future 4th line guy, but I don't see him on this team when they're contenders. IIRC, last year Bylsma said something about taking shots at the open net down to the 45s mark... after that, gain the line, or softly clear the zone to avoid icings. Lehner's rebound control is atrocious. Once opposing teams figure that out, it's going to be an even bigger problem. I liked Armia's game, he showed speed and was engaged, creating turnovers and scoring chances. I came away thoroughly impressed with his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 scary good or scary bad? he hasn't been playing as well as expected. Honestly, your team had some good zone time. The issue was they were kept to the outside mostly and other than a few of those shifts where they kept pressure up, they were mostly outplayed. I think your defense was lacking and had a hard time retrieving pucks from Buffalo forwards. Lehner did a good job and really took the air out of your team and your GT was mediocre. Scheifele was hardly noticeable. The Jets were fast though and I do envy your big fast wingers with skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I thought Lehner did a good job kicking rebounds harmlessly to the walls this game. There were still one or two occasions I remember the puck going back into the slot, but otherwise I thought Lehner's rebound control looked a lot better. And Pi, I agree with you completely on Foligno. The only way he's on our contending roster is as a 4th liner, and with that cap hit he's more likely to be elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Foligno always leaves me wanting more. He plays hard and has size, but he just doesn't have enough offensive skill and speed for this system IMO. You want your third line wingers to contribute more offensively... maybe he's a future 4th line guy, but I don't see him on this team when they're contenders. .... I liked Armia's game, he showed speed and was engaged, creating turnovers and scoring chances. I came away thoroughly impressed with his game. My perception is that Foligno and Armia played a roughly similar game. Both belong at the NHL level, and both seem like they should be capable of more than they've shown. The issue was they were kept to the outside mostly They played the same strategy during Saturday's game against Florida. Clear the puck as soon as you could, but if you couldn't clear it, at least keep the game on the periphery. I thought Lehner did a good job kicking rebounds harmlessly to the walls this game. There were still one or two occasions I remember the puck going back into the slot, but otherwise I thought Lehner's rebound control looked a lot better. Better, but still room for improvement. There were several instances that were similar to Gionta's goal but the Jets never seemed to be able to get to that loose puck, or if they did, they shanked it wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 My perception is that Foligno and Armia played a roughly similar game. Both belong at the NHL level, and both seem like they should be capable of more than they've shown. They played the same strategy during Saturday's game against Florida. Clear the puck as soon as you could, but if you couldn't clear it, at least keep the game on the periphery. Armia is 23 and has played 52 NHL games. Foligno is 25 and has played 275 NHL games. I think we know what Marcus is, whereas Armia could get significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Lehner's rebound control is atrocious. Once opposing teams figure that out, it's going to be an even bigger problem. i can't recall with specificity who did it on the jets, but there was one point-wrister at the sabres net that, even when it occurred, i was like, "huh, that's a frickin' random thing to do with the puck," and then lehner just leg-boomed it out to the opposite wing (maybe on purpose?!), and i then thought to myself "well, that could've ended badly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Armia is 23 and has played 52 NHL games. Foligno is 25 and has played 275 NHL games. I think we know what Marcus is, whereas Armia could get significantly better. Granted. If I had to pick one or the other, I'd go with the one that has the bigger body of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Granted. If I had to pick one or the other, I'd go with the one that has the bigger body of work. I can't disagree there. I'd probably hypothetically roll the dice on Armia, but with our current thin NHL forward depth Foligno is the better option. Man, Murray really should've signed another 3rd pairing D-man and 2 more depth forwards. He really must've been banking on Vesey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I have liked what I have seen from Foligno thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I can't believe Dudacek hasn't shown up yet to defend Foligno's honor. Where art thou, Dudacek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) It always amuses me when I read these player opinions because if someone likes somebody for whatever reason, they just seem to easily forget all the bad things they do and remember the 1 or 2 things a game they did well. On the other hand if for whatever reason someone doesn't like somebody, Bogosian, Gorges, Foligno, Kane, Franson etc.... it doesn't matter about all the other 99 things they did well in a game, they only remember the one blunder or a particular habit that they don't like and are completely unforgiving about it. On Foligno, my opinion is last year at this time he had no idea what was expected of him, he never had a system or line mates he meshed with and then he teamed up with Gionta and Larry and he's been progressing and playing better and better probably because he understands his role. His skating has improved, he backs up his teammates and he's a tenacious forechecker. Give him a chance to keep developing and he'll be fine. Actually where is Dudacek??? Also, you young guys with around 21,000 posts, you do know there are girls out there in the world, don't you??? Edited October 31, 2016 by jsb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I can't believe Dudacek hasn't shown up yet to defend Foligno's honor. Where art thou, Dudacek? He hasn't been around the past few days. It always amuses me when I read these player opinions because if someone likes somebody for whatever reason, they just seem to easily forget all the bad things they do and remember the 1 or 2 things a game they did well. On the other hand if for whatever reason someone doesn't like somebody, Bogosian, Gorges, Foligno, Kane, Franson etc.... it doesn't matter about all the other 99 things they did well in a game, they only remember the one blunder or a particular habit that they don't like and are completely unforgiving about it. On Foligno, my opinion is last year at this time he had no idea what was expected of him, he never had a system or line mates he meshed with and then he teamed up with Gionta and Larry and he's been progressing and playing better and better probably because he understands his role. His skating has improved, he backs up his teammates and he's a tenacious forechecker. Give him a chance to keep developing and he'll be fine. Thanks for the pointless condescension. I (and everybody else) have been watching Foligno for his entire career. Also, you young guys with around 21,000 posts, you do know there are girls out there in the world, don't you??? Hey, 12 year old with a computer, you do know there are video games out there in the world, don't you??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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