LGR4GM Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 My feeling of that locker room including Jack is that ROR is the leader just behind Gionta. On ice ability doesn't matter as much as much to me. Gionta has been a good captain and he's not a top 6 forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I would be okay with either choice. Risto and Samson would also make tremendous captains as they get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Really, I'll be fine either way. I think there's a good discussion on both O'Reilly and Eichel. I prefer Eichel but won't be mad if it's O'Reilly. Samson has been considered a leader at other levels, too. Those could be your three letters down the road. Good point there, Flagg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Nobody is defaulting into captain, WC. How dare you insult Eichel's qualities like that, sir. FTFY. Felt like it needed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Disagree 1000000000%. I was on the O'Reilly train as captain for the longest time (like eight months), but I think Eichel is already nearing him in both ability and leadership qualities. He will surpass him in ability in no time and will match the leadership. I want the C on my best player if at all possible and it's easy here. He's the face of the franchise, the best player (within a year or two), exhibits leadership qualities and going to be here for a long time. It also probably wouldn't hurt in negotiations down the line if you showed the confidence in him to wear it. Eichel is our captain. Nobody is defaulting into captain, WC. How dare you insult Eichel's qualities like that. You sound like a scorned lover :lol: Really, I'll be fine either way. I think there's a good discussion on both O'Reilly and Eichel. I prefer Eichel but won't be mad if it's O'Reilly. Samson has been considered a leader at other levels, too. Those could be your three letters down the road. Good point there, Flagg. How can you be fine either way yet disagree a bazillion percent? :p ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 You sound like a scorned lover :lol: How can you be fine either way yet disagree a bazillion percent? :P ;) I believe that's a trillion percent, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 You sound like a scorned lover :lol: How can you be fine either way yet disagree a bazillion percent? :P ;) On your first point: I don't kiss and tell (just ask JJ) On your second: I disagree 1000000% that I can't disagree 1000000% and still be fine. And I'm fine that you think I can't. But really, my disagreement statement came moments after I read WC's default statement. Didn't want the myth that Eichel getting the C would be defaulting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I believe that's a trillion percent, actually. Thanks. I really didn't feel like counting the zeros :lol: On your first point: I don't kiss and tell (just ask JJ) On your second: I disagree 1000000% that I can't disagree 1000000% and still be fine. And I'm fine that you think I can't. But really, my disagreement statement came moments after I read WC's default statement. Didn't want the myth that Eichel getting the C would be defaulting it. It's not that I don't think you can, it's that I know you can't and I'm positive that you won't :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Disagree 1000000000%. I was on the O'Reilly train as captain for the longest time (like eight months), but I think Eichel is already nearing him in both ability and leadership qualities. He will surpass him in ability in no time and will match the leadership. I want the C on my best player if at all possible and it's easy here. He's the face of the franchise, the best player (within a year or two), exhibits leadership qualities and going to be here for a long time. It also probably wouldn't hurt in negotiations down the line if you showed the confidence in him to wear it. Eichel is our captain. Nobody is defaulting into captain, WC. How dare you insult Eichel's qualities like that. Well we can never really know who the better leader is because we're not in the locker room. But, we do know O'Reilly leads off ice sessions, he is the vet, he plays in all situations, and he never takes a night off. Can we say the same for Jack? I'm not sure some of the vets follow a then 20 year old who gets the C over ROR. Unless they vote him in of course. Also, McDavid got that C because, who the hell else is going to get it on that team? Nobody from the old core, and Lucic just arrived. ROR => C Eichel => A Okposo => A As for your last part :lol: FTFY. Felt like it needed one. Well played Edited October 5, 2016 by WildCard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Any player will follow another who demonstrates a desire to win at all costs. It's better when their talent level is the sky. Vets will follow. Jack is the face, Samson the brain and hopefully Risto is the backbone. ROR is a great player and will have a leadership role, but I prefer we let the lunch pail mentality die a quick death. It is a new game, of young talented smart players. The captaincy should be one of those types of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Any player will follow another who demonstrates a desire to win at all costs. It's better when their talent level is the sky. Vets will follow. Jack is the face, Samson the brain and hopefully Risto is the backbone. ROR is a great player and will have a leadership role, but I prefer we let the lunch pail mentality die a quick death. It is a new game, of young talented smart players. The captaincy should be one of those types of players. You ... I like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Any player will follow another who demonstrates a desire to win at all costs. It's better when their talent level is the sky. Vets will follow. Jack is the face, Samson the brain and hopefully Risto is the backbone. ROR is a great player and will have a leadership role, but I prefer we let the lunch pail mentality die a quick death. It is a new game, of young talented smart players. The captaincy should be one of those types of players. I don't think naming Ryan O'Reilly captain is exactly representative of embracing a lunch pail mentality. He's a fringe Selke-caliber 1st liner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Not meant to demean ROR or his contributions. But even WCS first reference is to leading extra practice. That is how he got where he is. Jack also works hard but it doesn't look like he is. Let's split the baby Solomon, no more Ott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Not meant to demean ROR or his contributions. But even WCS first reference is to leading extra practice. That is how he got where he is. Jack also works hard but it doesn't look like he is. Let's split the baby Solomon, no more Ott. Sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck Also, since when is ROR just some schlep next to Eichel. The dude can play, and will be an all around better player than Jack when captaincy comes around. He's not some 35 year old vet either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck Also, since when is ROR just some schlep next to Eichel. The dude can play, and will be an all around better player than Jack when captaincy comes around. He's not some 35 year old vet either ROR is what you see. A very good player. Multi dimensional. Jack is just scratching the surface, as is Samson. In two maybe three years ROR will be the 4th best forward on the team talentwise. Not knocking him, but we didn't tank for two years to trade for ROR, we did it to get Jack and Samson. And never did I say he was a schlepp. He is not as gifted as Jack and worked to improve his game and skills. But you seem to dismiss the idea that Jack works as hard and will improve his God given talent. I can live with ROR with the C but I don't think that is the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 ROR is what you see. A very good player. Multi dimensional. Jack is just scratching the surface, as is Samson. In two maybe three years ROR will be the 4th best forward on the team talentwise. Not knocking him, but we didn't tank for two years to trade for ROR, we did it to get Jack and Samson. And never did I say he was a schlepp. He is not as gifted as Jack and worked to improve his game and skills. But you seem to dismiss the idea that Jack works as hard and will improve his God given talent. I can live with ROR with the C but I don't think that is the plan.I see him float. I see ROR on every type of shift and practice after the game. Talent does not make you a captain. I agree Jack will be better than him. But even if that was the basis of comparison, he isn't now, and he won't be next October Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Yes he will. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) Yes he will. It's that simple.So Jack is going to become a Selke finalist this year? Edited October 6, 2016 by WildCard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Was ROR a Selke finalist last year? No he wasn't. Jack will lead the team in scoring. Other teams will game plan against him. He will be the player the league associates with the Sabres. ROR is a very good player and will be a central part of any chance we have to contend for a cup, but IMHO Jack will be the face of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Was ROR a Selke finalist last year? No he wasn't. Jack will lead the team in scoring. Other teams will game plan against him. He will be the player the league associates with the Sabres. ROR is a very good player and will be a central part of any chance we have to contend for a cup, but IMHO Jack will be the face of the franchise. Well, you did say Jack would be better ;) I don't think anyone really disagrees with this, we just disagree that it means Jack is the obvious choice for captain. I'm fine with Jack getting it and there's a perfectly good case that it should happen, I just don't really buy into the "best player should be captain" way of thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Was ROR a Selke finalist last year? No he wasn't. Jack will lead the team in scoring. Other teams will game plan against him. He will be the player the league associates with the Sabres. ROR is a very good player and will be a central part of any chance we have to contend for a cup, but IMHO Jack will be the face of the franchise.Face of the franchise doesn't make you the captain. Just because your fans love you and you are a high pick doesn't give you more of a right to lead a team than a proven vet. And ROR has been a Selke finalist. He also would have lead the team in scoring had he not been injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Face of the franchise doesn't make you the captain. Just because your fans love you and you are a high pick doesn't give you more of a right to lead a team than a proven vet. And ROR has been a Selke finalist. He also would have lead the team in scoring had he not been injured I believe ROR has gotten Selke votes, but has never been a finalist. If the team starts winning I think that may change, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 I believe ROR has gotten Selke votes, but has never been a finalist. If the team starts winning I think that may change, however.You may be right. My mistake then. I just remember seeing his name and Selke next to stats during the ROR debate awhile back, might've been for votes Still, when Bergeron, Kopitar, and Toews are the finalists every year and you still get votes, you're not exactly slacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 You may be right. My mistake then. I just remember seeing his name and Selke next to stats during the ROR debate awhile back, might've been for votes Still, when Bergeron, Kopitar, and Toews are the finalists every year and you still get votes, you're not exactly slacking Besides, we know somebody from a bad team isn't going to get any real major award consideration regardless of merit (...not that I'm about to argue those three aren't better players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 I also think you misunderstand or over value the effect of a captain. He is not an assistant coach. Our own captain was demoted to the third line. The captain will have much less influence on success than a league leading scorer. And True there were two parts to his assertion, one of which was Jack wasn't as good as Ryan is now. Ryan was not a Selke finalist last year. I would remind you both that Imwas critical of Jack in the WCOH that in part lead to storm. He has flaws, but he is growing and getting better. WC you see float I see indecision. As his experience grows the instinct will take over. He may never be a Selke finalist but he could be scoring leader. I'll take that. In no way am I bashing ROR I am of the belief that Jack has the charisma and work ethic to be a leader on this team and maybe even the captain. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that Samson wears the C either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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