The romance of hockey

[Doohickie]

No, I'm not talking about romance in the lovey-dovey sense. 

 

There is a lot of knowledge on SabreSpace.  While I appreciate it, I am often lost in it all.  My fandom is still the fandom of a nine-year-old boy watching Gilbert flowing around the other team.  I like to watch hockey visually, and all the fancy stats in the world don't enhance the actual game experience for me.

 

Anyone else out there with me?  Or have fancy stats and fantasy sports eclipsed the romantic vision of sport?

[WildCard]

I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive

[josie]

No, I'm not talking about romance in the lovey-dovey sense. 

 

There is a lot of knowledge on SabreSpace.  While I appreciate it, I am often lost in it all.  My fandom is still the fandom of a nine-year-old boy watching Gilbert flowing around the other team.  I like to watch hockey visually, and all the fancy stats in the world don't enhance the actual game experience for me.

 

Anyone else out there with me?  Or have fancy stats and fantasy sports eclipsed the romantic vision of sport?

I tend to be more like you. 

 

I follow stats only enough to influence decisions in my fantasy leagues, and other than that, I enjoy getting lost in the speed of a good game.

 

I will also add that playing hockey gives you an entirely new experience when watching it... a whole new appreciation. And that's where my nerves get set on edge and the adrenaline gets pumping. And when I start screaming at the TV. 

 

But hey, I'm an art kid, not a math kid. D4rk can tell you, I was in near ecstasy over some third jersey shoulder patch Calgary had on a couple weeks ago. More interest in that than ice times and SOG.

 

I don't notice stats until something is going wrong. Then I use them as empirical evidence to support a theory that would help fix whatever problem. And even then it's lazily done. I go by gut feel/observation more.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Josie914

[Weave]

No, I'm not talking about romance in the lovey-dovey sense. 

 

There is a lot of knowledge on SabreSpace.  While I appreciate it, I am often lost in it all.  My fandom is still the fandom of a nine-year-old boy watching Gilbert flowing around the other team.  I like to watch hockey visually, and all the fancy stats in the world don't enhance the actual game experience for me.

 

Anyone else out there with me?  Or have fancy stats and fantasy sports eclipsed the romantic vision of sport?

 

Both, although I wish I could return to being the 9 yr old watching Gilbert.  This season has got me closer than ever to being that 9 yr old.  I don't really want to wrap myself in who is doing what, and how well.  I just want to be entertained this year.  And so far, mission accomplished mostly.

[qwksndmonster]

I like to think of myself as a somewhat knowledgeable hockey fan, and I never see stats unless I'm reading hockey articles or this board.  There's just so much about the game you can sink your teeth into while you're watching.

 

 

-You can try to figure out which lines are going against which and why the home coach is doing it.

 

-You can sit back and listen to how talented Rick is at capturing the flow of the game with as few words as possible.

 

-You can try to isolate players and learn about them.  I love assigning personalities to players based solely on how they play.  I don't know Mark Pysyk, but I know the calm, methodical Pysser.

 

-You can watch the space open and close depending on where the puck is.

 

I'm captivated every time, even if I know the Sabres are going to lose.

[mphs mike]

No, I'm not talking about romance in the lovey-dovey sense. 

 

There is a lot of knowledge on SabreSpace.  While I appreciate it, I am often lost in it all.  My fandom is still the fandom of a nine-year-old boy watching Gilbert flowing around the other team.  I like to watch hockey visually, and all the fancy stats in the world don't enhance the actual game experience for me.

 

Anyone else out there with me?  Or have fancy stats and fantasy sports eclipsed the romantic vision of sport?

We're apparently the same age - I was 9 when I first saw Bert as a rookie!

I'm with you - I don't do fantasy sports so I have little/no need for advanced stats and pay little attention to them. As I have gotten older, I can frequently tell, based upon observation, that a team doesn't "have it" on a given night. At times I wish I was that little kid that ALWAYS believed my team was going to win/pull it out, regardless of time left, score, opponent, etc 

[That Aud Smell]

I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive

 

Hear, hear.

 

When I'm watching a game -- and maybe mostly if it's a good one -- I'm not thinking at all about #fancystats. I took some of my kids to that Vancouver game. On the way out of the arena, the oldest one with me said that she'd never (she added an ever) seen me act the way I did when Risto scored that winner. She was clearly amused. I was acting like I was 10 years old.

 

But in the offline (non-game) times, the #fancystats offer valuable insight.

[3putt]

I tend to be more like you. 

 

I follow stats only enough to influence decisions in my fantasy leagues, and other than that, I enjoy getting lost in the speed of a good game.

 

I will also add that playing hockey gives you an entirely new experience when watching it... a whole new appreciation. And that's where my nerves get set on edge and the adrenaline gets pumping. And when I start screaming at the TV. 

 

But hey, I'm an art kid, not a math kid. D4rk can tell you, I was in near ecstasy over some third jersey shoulder patch Calgary had on a couple weeks ago. More interest in that than ice times and SOG.

 

I don't notice stats until something is going wrong. Then I use them as empirical evidence to support a theory that would help fix whatever problem. And even then it's lazily done. I go by gut feel/observation more.

I think this is where I come from.  Knowing the difficulty of some of the things we see, and knowing the skill level of these athletes always amazes me.  Then they go and do something new and I cant get enough.  The numbers only confirm what I am seeing.  And in many cases I think the correlation to actual on ice activity is specious at best.  

[sabills]

Hear, hear.

 

When I'm watching a game -- and maybe mostly if it's a good one -- I'm not thinking at all about #fancystats. I took some of my kids to that Vancouver game. On the way out of the arena, the oldest one with me said that she'd never (she added an ever) seen me act the way I did when Risto scored that winner. She was clearly amused. I was acting like I was 10 years old.

 

But in the offline (non-game) times, the #fancystats offer valuable insight.

 

Yeah, stats are for when you're deciding if Drew Stafford deserves an extension, or if the power play needs to be revamped. Its not like the stats guys are sitting watching a game like 

 

They have their place during the game, too. I think hockey's advanced stats are the easiest to under stand, and a lot of the time confirm what it is you're seeing with your eyes. Possession is just who has the puck more. Corsi and Fenwick are both what I always thought shots should be, how many times you actually SHOOT THE PUCK. 

 

Players should never really worry about stats, but coaches and GMs absolutely should. 

[WildCard]

Yeah, stats are for when you're deciding if Drew Stafford deserves an extension, or if the power play needs to be revamped. Its not like the stats guys are sitting watching a game like 

 

They have their place during the game, too. I think hockey's advanced stats are the easiest to under stand, and a lot of the time confirm what it is you're seeing with your eyes. Possession is just who has the puck more. Corsi and Fenwick are both what I always thought shots should be, how many times you actually SHOOT THE PUCK. 

 

Players should never really worry about stats, but coaches and GMs absolutely should. 

Exactly. I watch the game like I did when I was a kid, though a little more critical and observant, but it's nice to have stats to verify your intuitions. Plus, I mean, they're cool as hell. 

[That Aud Smell]

They have their place during the game, too.

 

....

 

Players should never really worry about stats, but coaches and GMs absolutely should. 

 

Players, coaches, GMs. I'd add: As a fan, I don't see the need to think much (if at all) about them during a game.

 

Love the Matrix .gif.

[BagBoy]

I think fantasy sports have definitely smeared how people regard team sports.  Now anyone remotely affiliated with a fantasy league probably cares more about how certain individuals performed than how teams played.  It rubs me the wrong way when i want to see an updated NFL score on the bottom of my TV, but I have to wait while they display all the individual stats from other games.  I don't care if Joe Schmo has 5 yards on 1 carry.  I want to know the score of the Cowboys game.

 

Any NFL player can tell you about fans bitching at them for doing something that affected that fan's fantasy score.  It's just asinine.  They should pass a law where NFL players are legally allowed to assault anyone who at them about their fantasy team.

 

I guess this reflects a trend where politically and socially we are moving closer towards individualism and further away from a more closely-knit society.

[qwksndmonster]

Hahaha nice sabills. Perfect visual.

[darksabre]

I'll admit, I think about stats while I'm playing and it has helped my game. I picture graphics in my head of where I need to be as a skater, or where I need to hold my glove as a goalie, and it really helps make up for not having someone to really coach me. As a rec player, I like what stats do to show me how to play. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by d4rksabre

[WildCard]

I think fantasy sports have definitely smeared how people regard team sports.  Now anyone remotely affiliated with a fantasy league probably cares more about how certain individuals performed than how teams played.  It rubs me the wrong way when i want to see an updated NFL score on the bottom of my TV, but I have to wait while they display all the individual stats from other games.  I don't care if Joe Schmo has 5 yards on 1 carry.  I want to know the score of the Cowboys game.

 

Any NFL player can tell you about fans bitching at them for doing something that affected that fan's fantasy score.  It's just asinine.  They should pass a law where NFL players are legally allowed to assault anyone who ###### at them about their fantasy team.

 

I guess this reflects a trend where politically and socially we are moving closer towards individualism and further away from a more closely-knit society.

I have a hard time believing liking statistics means we are focusing on individualism. Our society has always been very individualistic

Edited November 16, 2015 by WildCard

[qwksndmonster]

I'll admit, I think about stats while I'm playing and it has helped my game. I picture graphics in my head of where I need to be as a skater, or where I need to hold my glove as a goalie, and it really helps make up for not having someone to really coach me. As a rec player, I like what stats do to show me how to play.

Very interesting. What stats do you think about as a skater? Shot charts?

[Stormin Norman]

Great topic.  I couldn't agree more... that the visuals AND sounds of hockey are the enticements for me.  Examples:

 

- Being at a game live and hearing the puck smack against the stick blade on a tape to tape pass

- TV broadcasts where the sounds of the boards are accented (body checks, pucks hitting them)

- Rising anticipation when Eichel gets the puck with open ice in front of him (that Gilbert feeling)

- The emotion of a big goal or big hit

- The adrenaline flowing (regardless of which teams are playing) inside when watching two teams playing wide open hockey for long stretches (a feeling I wish I could experience more)

 

And the list could be much longer....

[BagBoy]

I have a hard time believing liking statistics means we are focusing on individualism. Our society has always been very individualistic

I'm sounding off against fantasy sports, not statistics.

[darksabre]

Very interesting. What stats do you think about as a skater? Shot charts?

Yup. I've very aware now of where I need to be on the ice, where the best places are to make passes or take shots. It doesn't always work, but it has made a difference. I'm much more likely now to avoid just moving the puck for the sake of moving it. I visualize the scoring areas. 

 

edit: I'll also add that it helps on defense because it prevents me from pursuing guys to areas where they aren't likely to score. It stops me from chasing guys around too much. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by d4rksabre

[That Aud Smell]

I think fantasy sports have definitely smeared how people regard team sports.  Now anyone remotely affiliated with a fantasy league probably cares more about how certain individuals performed than how teams played.  

 

This is a concerning trend, for sure. But I don't think things are all that far gone when it comes to fans of a specific team. At least I hope they are not that far gone.

 

I know that, for me, fantasy football (the only fantasy sport I play) has been a welcome refuge, lo, these past 15 years or so.

[woods-racer]

Great topic.  I couldn't agree more... that the visuals AND sounds of hockey are the enticements for me.  Examples:

 

- Being at a game live and hearing the puck smack against the stick blade on a tape to tape pass

- TV broadcasts where the sounds of the boards are accented (body checks, pucks hitting them)

- Rising anticipation when Eichel gets the puck with open ice in front of him (that Gilbert feeling)

- The emotion of a big goal or big hit

- The adrenaline flowing (regardless of which teams are playing) inside when watching two teams playing wide open hockey for long stretches (a feeling I wish I could experience more)

 

And the list could be much longer....

 

Have to ask.

 

Is your avatar Ultra Man? I think that is his name, it's been 40 years since I watched the show.

 

 

I just started paying attention to and learning fancy stats for hockey. Only to confirm or disprove my perceived notions while watching the game. I've also begun understanding a players $ value comparing fancy stats vs. payroll for players.

[Doohickie]

Players should never really worry about stats, but coaches and GMs absolutely should. 

 

But fans?  I'd rather just watch the games, thanks.

I think fantasy sports have definitely smeared how people regard team sports.  Now anyone remotely affiliated with a fantasy league probably cares more about how certain individuals performed than how teams played.  It rubs me the wrong way when i want to see an updated NFL score on the bottom of my TV, but I have to wait while they display all the individual stats from other games.  I don't care if Joe Schmo has 5 yards on 1 carry.  I want to know the score of the Cowboys game.

 

Any NFL player can tell you about fans bitching at them for doing something that affected that fan's fantasy score.  It's just asinine.  They should pass a law where NFL players are legally allowed to assault anyone who ###### at them about their fantasy team.

 

I guess this reflects a trend where politically and socially we are moving closer towards individualism and further away from a more closely-knit society.

 

 

Note sure about that last bit, but yeah, there's that linkage between fancystats and fantasy sports.  I really dislike fantasy sports; I think it takes away from the game- you see fans rooting against their own team; that's just not right.

[sabills]

But fans?  I'd rather just watch the games, thanks.

 

Then, go ahead...? I like stats, its interesting to me, and inform my opinions. I like fantasy, it makes me interested in games that I otherwise wouldn't even pay attention to. I don't see how it has to, or even can, ruin the experience for you.

[Doohickie]

Have to ask.

 

Is your avatar Ultra Man? I think that is his name, it's been 40 years since I watched the show.

 

 

I just started paying attention to and learning fancy stats for hockey. Only to confirm or disprove my perceived notions while watching the game. I've also begun understanding a players $ value comparing fancy stats vs. payroll for players.

 

Ultra-Man!  I remember when he was on WUTV, Channel 29... along with Gilligan's Island.  ;)

Then, go ahead...? I like stats, its interesting to me, and inform my opinions. I like fantasy, it makes me interested in games that I otherwise wouldn't even pay attention to. I don't see how it has to, or even can, ruin the experience for you.

 

My issue is that fantasy sports stats are crowding out traditional sports coverage.  Remember the old ESPN coverage where Chris Berman would just go through all the NFL games, giving each one a few minutes and covering the big events, then moving on to the next game?  Now when they do that they have to augment that with the fantasy stats.  To me that's like reviewing off-sides after a goal.... just kills the energy.

Meh.  I'm just old I guess.

[sabills]

Ultra-Man!  I remember when he was on WUTV, Channel 29... along with Gilligan's Island.  ;)

 

My issue is that fantasy sports stats are crowding out traditional sports coverage.  Remember the old ESPN coverage where Chris Berman would just go through all the NFL games, giving each one a few minutes and covering the big events, then moving on to the next game?  Now when they do that they have to augment that with the fantasy stats.  To me that's like reviewing off-sides after a goal.... just kills the energy.

Meh.  I'm just old I guess.

 

I guess I don't notice that much because I don't have ESPN or any sports channels, so I don't watch the coverage almost at all (not that ESPN covers the NHL anyways...but that's a complaint for another day/thread). I'll read articles and stuff, but that's about it. I haven't really noticed any fantasy infringing on hockey at all, anyways. Fantasy Hockey is a pretty fringe thing at this point, unlike football.