Patrick Kane: [Updated] D.A. Decides Not to Prosecute; NHL Determines Claims "Unfounded"

[Hoss]

This is getting ridiculous. I'm not going to get into x-rated examples of how your scenario is absurd. Nor am I going to get almost as far as having a lawyer in the room to fill out paperwork before I go through the deed.

 

Something needs to be done about sexual abuse. And so does this rampant progressivism. A line needs to be drawn, it seems some people's idea of fixing the situation is by leaping over that line in a full sprint to the end of the spectrum.

 

I'm reminded of the scene in Demolition Man. Oh how that movie gets more and more accurate by the day.

Cute. Do you have anything productive to say or is this the beginning of your tantrum?

 

Also, what in the world do you find so ridiculous in my post? This is just lazy. Clearly you felt incapable of reasonable response so you threw your hands up and quit. Weak.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Hoss

[qwksndmonster]

 

Two Chicago Tribune writers have the byline today on a comprehensive overview of where the Kane investigation stands, and where it may be headed.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-patrick-kane-prosecutor-20150819-story.html

 

I tried to read it, but the chicago tribune wants money from me, and also doesn't want to give me a free sample of 1 article.  They don't get my business.  Care to summarize?

[LGR4GM]

You said 1/4 of women ages 18-24 were assaulted.  When 1/5 of women in college had experienced attempted or completed sexual assault.

 

Please own up to how you completely fabricated a statistic.  The study is fine, because they explain where that number came from.

So admitting I was wrong isn't owning up?  This will be the 2nd time I said it outright and in my mind the 3rd time I have indicated it.

Shouldn't we be focusing on the fact that 1/5 women in college experienced attempted or completed sexual assault?

[Hoss]

Legally, regret is just that. Prior to engaging in the act and during its consummation consent can be withdrawn. After consummation "regretting" the act does not remove the consent at the time it occurred.

True. But if you explicitly withdraw consent during the act and the other individual continues it is rape.

[LGR4GM]

Has anyone ever watched 12 angry men with Henry Fonda?  This thread feels like that at times.

[qwksndmonster]

So admitting I was wrong isn't owning up?  This will be the 2nd time I said it outright and in my mind the 3rd time I have indicated it.

Shouldn't we be focusing on the fact that 1/5 women in college experienced attempted or completed sexual assault?

 

 

1) My statistic was a little high.    -No, it's entirely meaningless.

 

2) I already admitted I was wrong!     -No, you said it was a little high.

 

3) I said I was wrong, what more do you want?!      -I want you! (dun dun dun) I want you so baaaaaad babe.

 

And yes, we have been focusing on it.  This entire thread is almost 37 pages of discussion.

[JJFIVEOH]

Cute. Do you have anything productive to say or is this the beginning of your tantrum?

 

Also, what in the world do you find so ridiculous in my post? This is just lazy. Clearly you felt incapable of reasonable response so you threw your hands up and quit. Weak.

 

It's not a rant, I'm just pointing out that you're living in a fantasy world. I withdrew the rest of explanation because I wasn't about to explain in a PG rated forum how a woman going quiet isn't a sign that she doesn't want to go any further. If you want an explanation, feel free to message me.

[LGR4GM]

1) My statistic was a little high.    -No, it's entirely meaningless.

 

2) I already admitted I was wrong!     -No, you said it was a little high.

 

3) I said I was wrong, what more do you want?!      -I want you! (dun dun dun) I want you so baaaaaad babe.

 

And yes, we have been focusing on it.  This entire thread is almost 37 pages of discussion.

Your 2nd point has an error.  I didn't use an exclamation point. Also your 3rd point has an error because I did not use an exclamation point there either.  I also said "So admitting I was wrong isn't owning up?" I did not say "I said I was wrong, what more do you want?!"

[bbb]

Two Chicago Tribune writers have the byline today on a comprehensive overview of where the Kane investigation stands, and where it may be headed.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-patrick-kane-prosecutor-20150819-story.html

 

Who is Kane?

 

[3putt]

True. But if you explicitly withdraw consent during the act and the other individual continues it is rape.

Provided the withdrawal of consent is conveyed.  You can't just think it.  "Stop" would be sufficient.

[Taro T]

Best I could find for an explanation is that they asked them this question: 

 

Has anyone attempted but not succeeded in having sexual contact with you by using or threatening to use physical force against you?

 

Here's the link: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3200/JACH.57.6.639-649

 

EDIT: This is how they define sexual contact:

 

 

These questions ask about 5 types of unwanted sexual contact:

• Forced touching of a sexual nature (forced kissing, touching of private parts, grabbing, fondling, rubbing up against you in a sexual way, even if it is over your clothes)

• Oral sex (someone’s mouth or tongue making contact with your genitals or your mouth or tongue making contact with someone else’s genitals)

• Sexual intercourse (someone’s penis being put in your ######)

• ###### sex (someone’s penis being put in your ######)

• Sexual penetration with a finger or object (someone putting their finger or an object like a bottle or a candle in your ###### or ######)

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Only looked at the 1st few pages of the paper. Thought it was interesting that though the authors state in the body of their work that 19% of female undergrads are potentially sexually assaulted; in their intro they up that to 20-25% are sexually assaulted.

 

Also based on your info above, it appears that the "attempted sexual contact" leaves a lot of wiggle room. (As does the 1st category of "sexual contact." Based on that definition, I am actually surprised that only 19% of undergrad women were/ potentially were sexually assaulted.)

[qwksndmonster]

Your 2nd point has an error. I didn't use an exclamation point. Also your 3rd point has an error because I did not use an exclamation point there either. I also said "So admitting I was wrong isn't owning up?" I did not say "I said I was wrong, what more do you want?!"

Can you say that you were wrong about the stat instead of saying that you already said you were wrong? I did the legwork to check your information and I feel that your response was inadequate.

[Hoss]

Provided the withdrawal of consent is conveyed. You can't just think it. "Stop" would be sufficient.

Hence "explicitly."

[qwksndmonster]

Thanks for the info.

 

Only looked at the 1st few pages of the paper. Thought it was interesting that though the authors state in the body of their work that 19% of female undergrads are potentially sexually assaulted; in their intro they up that to 20-25% are sexually assaulted.

 

Also based on your info above, it appears that the "attempted sexual contact" leaves a lot of wiggle room. (As does the 1st category of "sexual contact." Based on that definition, I am actually surprised that only 19% of undergrad women were/ potentially were sexually assaulted.)

A possible explanation for the discrepancy is that the 19% is specifically IN COLLEGE. Elsewhere it states figures in the mid/high twenties for college women that have experienced attempted sexual assault in their entire lives. Edited August 20, 2015 by immerman

[LGR4GM]

Can you say that you were wrong about the stat instead of saying that you already said you were wrong? I did the legwork to check your information and I feel that your response was inadequate.

If it will make you happy.  3rd times a charm.

 

I was wrong, inaccurate, incorrect, false, mistaken, erroneous, flawed and in error when I said 1 out of 4 women will be sexual assaulted between the ages of 18-24. 

are we good? can we finally get back to what matters now?

[Johnny DangerFace]

Can you say that you were wrong about the stat instead of saying that you already said you were wrong? I did the legwork to check your information and I feel that your response was inadequate.

Good god move on or PM him. He's said 50 times

[Hoss]

It's not a rant, I'm just pointing out that you're living in a fantasy world. I withdrew the rest of explanation because I wasn't about to explain in a PG rated forum how a woman going quiet isn't a sign that she doesn't want to go any further. If you want an explanation, feel free to message me.

I said multiple times "silent and motionless." If she suddenly stops engaging with you both verbally and physically then you should likely figure out why that happened before proceeding.

[Taro T]

A possible explanation for the discrepancy is that the 19% is specifically IN COLLEGE. Elsewhere it states figures in the mid/high twenties for college women that have experienced attempted sexual assault in their entire lives.

Ok.

[qwksndmonster]

If it will make you happy. 3rd times a charm.

 

I was wrong, inaccurate, incorrect, false, mistaken, erroneous, flawed and in error when I said 1 out of 4 women will be sexual assaulted between the ages of 18-24.

 

are we good? can we finally get back to what matters now?

Thank you.

[K-9]

you cant revoke consent afterwards. There is not a 90 day return policy on sex

See my earlier reply to Taro. I was referring to subsequent acts.

[TrueBlueGED]

It's the same mindset that occupies politics. There's a certain utopianism that pervades the arguments made by a certain side, that ignores history and human nature. Really, you want to get out a check-list, pre-approved by a feminist lawyer, before you start touching genitalia? How about, both parties need to be into it, and if one party ain't, then they should simply SAY SO.

 

The same people arguing the feminist line have no problem with the movies coming out of Hollywood, the lead fashion stories on Yahoo, the ads shown during prime-time TV. Where does the social influence come from? Not the catholics. Not the synagogues. Oh, but look, Mad Men featured a sizzling scene this week. That's okay, right?

 

So, the social influences really are ignored, but the individual is supposed to have the brain power, self control, and prescience to be in complete control at all times. Where does this develop, who is responsible to aid in this development. The schools and the parents. Yes? Well, the schools aren't allowed to teach self-control...really...or they get sued. Used to be able to. In fact, the schools, what they do teach, goes beyond the basics to the point of ridiculousness...no wonder the kids don't take it seriously.

 

That leaves the parents. Parents, assuming we're talking about a mother-father pair, who both have to work a job, leaving their kids to after-school or day care, or leaving the kids on their own. When they do get the kids, they still have to make dinner, do the housework, go over homework, whatever. Oh yeah, maybe they have that conversation over dinner. Gee, I wonder how many families eat dinner at the table together every night? Single parent homes - sure sex education is a priority. You should blame the parents...or not. The family unit has been under assault since the 1960's...how's that working out for America? Aww, too old fashioned, I suppose, wanting a solid family-unit and all.

 

Josie said it earlier - her upbringing made her feel like a slut if she were all into sex. Okay, good. Of course that skews her perception, but at least it helps her stay safe. Maybe the rest of America's girls ought to be raised the way Josie was. And be raised to say "no" and that it's okay to say "no".

 

Guys need to be raised to respect women. When did this stop happening, by the way? Because, it used to be that way. At what point in America's history did women become disrespected to the point where every female ought to consider themselves a potential rape victim?

 

And no one here has really solved the "what is rape" question. Is it by force? Is it no consent? If consent is the issue, does the consent need to be verbalized? You do dig that when one party says "no" and tries to stop the sex, then it becomes "by force" if the other party continues on, right?

 

Finally, every time I open this thread two thoughts eventually pass through my mind, and I will share what they are, and leave them here. Actually three:

 

Catholic Girls by Frank Zappa

Fast Times at Ridgemont High

 

And the third thought is all of the chicks, when I was young and single, who took my clothes off and were grabbing me without my invite. I didn't mind, and I didn't think anything negative about them (on the contrary). Was I a bad boy? Were they bad girls?

Yup, definitely only one side does this.

[K-9]

It's the same mindset that occupies politics. There's a certain utopianism that pervades the arguments made by a certain side, that ignores history and human nature. Really, you want to get out a check-list, pre-approved by a feminist lawyer, before you start touching genitalia? How about, both parties need to be into it, and if one party ain't, then they should simply SAY SO.The same people arguing the feminist line have no problem with the movies coming out of Hollywood, the lead fashion stories on Yahoo, the ads shown during prime-time TV. Where does the social influence come from? Not the catholics. Not the synagogues. Oh, but look, Mad Men featured a sizzling scene this week. That's okay, right?So, the social influences really are ignored, but the individual is supposed to have the brain power, self control, and prescience to be in complete control at all times. Where does this develop, who is responsible to aid in this development. The schools and the parents. Yes? Well, the schools aren't allowed to teach self-control...really...or they get sued. Used to be able to. In fact, the schools, what they do teach, goes beyond the basics to the point of ridiculousness...no wonder the kids don't take it seriously.That leaves the parents. Parents, assuming we're talking about a mother-father pair, who both have to work a job, leaving their kids to after-school or day care, or leaving the kids on their own. When they do get the kids, they still have to make dinner, do the housework, go over homework, whatever. Oh yeah, maybe they have that conversation over dinner. Gee, I wonder how many families eat dinner at the table together every night? Single parent homes - sure sex education is a priority. You should blame the parents...or not. The family unit has been under assault since the 1960's...how's that working out for America? Aww, too old fashioned, I suppose, wanting a solid family-unit and all.Josie said it earlier - her upbringing made her feel like a slut if she were all into sex. Okay, good. Of course that skews her perception, but at least it helps her stay safe. Maybe the rest of America's girls ought to be raised the way Josie was. And be raised to say "no" and that it's okay to say "no".Guys need to be raised to respect women. When did this stop happening, by the way? Because, it used to be that way. At what point in America's history did women become disrespected to the point where every female ought to consider themselves a potential rape victim?And no one here has really solved the "what is rape" question. Is it by force? Is it no consent? If consent is the issue, does the consent need to be verbalized? You do dig that when one party says "no" and tries to stop the sex, then it becomes "by force" if the other party continues on, right?Finally, every time I open this thread two thoughts eventually pass through my mind, and I will share what they are, and leave them here. Actually three:Catholic Girls by Frank ZappaFast Times at Ridgemont HighAnd the third thought is all of the chicks, when I was young and single, who took my clothes off and were grabbing me without my invite. I didn't mind, and I didn't think anything negative about them (on the contrary). Was I a bad boy? Were they bad girls?

This post really pissed me off until I agreed with it.

[JJFIVEOH]

I said multiple times "silent and motionless." If she suddenly stops engaging with you both verbally and physically then you should likely figure out why that happened before proceeding.

 

'Silent and motionless' means no. Got it.

[shrader]

I'm reminded of the scene in Demolition Man. Oh how that movie gets more and more accurate by the day.

 

Hey, what you do with seashells is your own business.

[That Aud Smell]

I tried to read it, but the chicago tribune wants money from me, and also doesn't want to give me a free sample of 1 article.  They don't get my business.  Care to summarize?

 

That's strange - I did not encounter a paywall. I can't summarize because the article is quite lengthy, and covers a lot of ground.

 

I just Googled the terms chicago tribune kane buffalo sedita, clicked the Google News link, and got through again. 

 

Maybe go on social media (FB or Twitter), find a Tribune account, and find and click a link there? That's a workaround for me sometimes (although I don't need one here).

 

Who is Kane?

 

Spot on. Thanks for that.