Hoss Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Avs are shopping DucheneWoah, they are (according to reports) http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2015/11/12/welcome-matt-duchene-to-the-trade-rumor-mill/ TSN's insider trading said that Ottawa is very interested. Edited November 13, 2015 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Avs are shopping Duchene That would be dumb after letting O'reilly and Stastny go. Unless they think grigorenko is legit :P Edited November 13, 2015 by Huckleberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 That would be dumb after letting O'reilly and Stastny go. Unless they think grigorenko is legit :P Well he did spin Chara around and fed Duchene for the game winner. Nice play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I have no inside information on this other than living here, seeing the team play, and feeling the vibe in town. That said, the Flyers are straight up awful. They are the worst kind of awful too, old, slow, boring, expensive awful. They are capped out to the point that they are having a hard time calling up guys for injury fill-ins. They have a new coach and are playing absolutely atrocious hockey. Having seen this in Philly befor, if they don't right the ship quickly Ed Snider will pull out his trusty playbook. That includes: 1. Fire the coach if that doesn't work 2. Make a "shake up" trade to try to get things going. Given that Hakstol is brand new and was Hextall's choice they might flip flop the order and make a trade first. The last time the Flyers got to this place, they dealt away Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. We're also talking about the people who flipped JvR for Luke Schenn and Bobrovsky for a big pile of nothing. There are plenty of pieces the Flyers would like to move I'm sure, Schenn, Vinny LeCavalier and Andy MacDonald being at the top of the list. Luke Schenn is a hot mess and is getting roundly booed in his home barn. He's a big slow defenseman who'd have been great in the 1970's that the Flyers still think exist. LeCavalier and MacDonald are bascially untradeable because of the dollars and term they are owed. Vinny also has a full NMC, Schenn has a modified NMC this year too which complicates things. Other than that you'd think RJ Umberger and Matt Read would be next, I don't mind Matt Read but I don't think he's worth 3.6 million at age 29 through 2017-18. In terms of shaking up the roster you also have to wonder if moving any of those guys will make a dent. They could move on from Couturier or Brayden Schenn. Of those two I think Schenn is more likely as he's been a giant disappointment. Claude Giroux has a NMC and I don't think they try to move him unless it's a massive deal. That only leaves a couple guys that anyone might want.Jake Voracek who makes 8.2 million dollars and has a whopping 0 goals and 5 assists. He has a career high of 23 goals and 81 points. He only topped 60 points twice in his life. This smells like another massive boat anchor contract for the Flyers since they just reupped him through 2024 and I don't think I want to help them out of that hole. That only leaves one forward candidate who is remotely interesting who COULD be moved, Wayne Simmonds. Simmonds has a cap hit of 3.975M through 2019 and is 27 years old. At this point he basically is what he is going to become. Simmonds scores more goals than Voracek, three seasons of 28+ goals, plays RW, and is a heckuva lot cheaper. He's also a team leader and moving him would achieve the "shake up the room" objective. Keeping in mind that the Flyers will want you to take on a boat anchor contract in addition to get them out of cap hell, what would you give up for Simmonds? The Flyers have a ton of D talent in the minors so they'd probably want forwards/picks and they won't want anything close to an even money swap so think young and cheap. Simmonds + a contract for Girgensons and a pick or two? Edited to add this. Right on time the Philly Inquirer publishes this. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20151113_Maybe_Flyers_should_trade_Claude_Giroux_while_he_s_still_valuable.html Schenn is in the last year of his deal so moving him to a team who needs an expiring defensemen to fill in an injury will make sense. He probably fetches a fourth. The problem in Lecavalier and MacDonald is the years more than the dollars to me. I wouldn't want to swallow either to get an elite offensive player. Simmonds, Couturier, Giroux shouldn't be available as with Voracek are in their primes. I would love to get any of them. Claude would cost too much valuable talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 "Simmonds + a contract for Girgensons and a pick or two?" Why make this trade though? We have wingers coming out our ears. If you are going to sell an asset like Zemgus why get another winger? I still think the best play is to move Larsson to Florida for one of the 2 defenders I have mentioned before. Full makeup of that deal, idk but seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 "Simmonds + a contract for Girgensons and a pick or two?" Why make this trade though? We have wingers coming out our ears. If you are going to sell an asset like Zemgus why get another winger? I still think the best play is to move Larsson to Florida for one of the 2 defenders I have mentioned before. Full makeup of that deal, idk but seems reasonable. We do? Are you factoring in prospects developing as planned then? Even so, none of them compare to Wayne Simmonds, especially in RW where we have no talent or depth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 "Simmonds + a contract for Girgensons and a pick or two?" Why make this trade though? We have wingers coming out our ears. If you are going to sell an asset like Zemgus why get another winger? I still think the best play is to move Larsson to Florida for one of the 2 defenders I have mentioned before. Full makeup of that deal, idk but seems reasonable. I can agree with this sentiment, but really an upgrade is needed over Gionta, McGinn and a few others in the top six. This easily is rectified once Kaner gets back. However even then I would feel that they could use an uptick. Simmonds is a very refined player in his zone and has the same attributes as Kane and O'Reilly. He'd be an amazing fit. Other than that, I would love to go after Petrovic, or one of the defensemen in Florida. Even a Matheson type in a prospect trade. If he was available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 WC is right that we need RWs, but I don't know how I feel about giving Zemgus up for Simmonds. Simmonds makes our forward group better and more dynamic for sure, but Zemgus is a better depth piece. If Simmonds wasn't 27 and likely to slow down around 29-30 when this team is kicking into gear I'd say it's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 We do? Are you factoring in prospects developing as planned then? Even so, none of them compare to Wayne Simmonds, especially in RW where we have no talent or depth Look at who is playing wing for us. Kane, Moulson, Gionta, Zemgus, Larsson, Reinhart currently, Ennis, Deslauriers, McGinn, Foligno. I just think if we are trading assets we should look to improve our defense pool. I love Wayne Simmonds. If he was 24, I would be like you know that is a good idea but he is outside the window I think. That said if we did trade for him, I would not be upset. I would just like to see us spend our assets differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 His recent slump aside, I think Zemgus is one of those players that will never stop growing. I think he'll be every bit as effective a playoff player as Simmonds, but he doesn't bring the same physical intimidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 The question I would pose about Zemgus is how does he do in the playoffs? I want to say he would be an animal but idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Look at who is playing wing for us. Kane, Moulson, Gionta, Zemgus, Larsson, Reinhart currently, Ennis, Deslauriers, McGinn, Foligno. I just think if we are trading assets we should look to improve our defense pool. I love Wayne Simmonds. If he was 24, I would be like you know that is a good idea but he is outside the window I think. That said if we did trade for him, I would not be upset. I would just like to see us spend our assets differently. Gionta and Moulson are older, Reinhart will be a center, Kane is a LW, Foligno, McGinn, Des, and Larsson are 3-4th liners. Zemgus is great, I love the kid, and Ennis is a good winger, but Simmonds is a legitimate scoring threat that plays a very similar but heavier game than Kane. Those two would be nightmares on back-to-back lines. Him being 27 is a little concerning, but that's still very young. Him being 30 when we're competing for a Cup isn't old at all. The only thing I wouldn't like about the deal is losing center depth, and seeing Zemgus in a Flyer's sweater Edited November 13, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Gionta and Moulson are older, Reinhart will be a center, Kane is a LW, Foligno, McGinn, Des, and Larsson are 3-4th liners. Zemgus is great, I love the kid, and Ennis is a good winger, but Simmonds is a legitimate scoring threat that plays a very similar but heavier game than Kane. Those two would be nightmares on back-to-back lines. Him being 27 is a little concerning, but that's still very young. Him being 30 when we're competing for a Cup isn't old at all. The only thing I wouldn't like about the deal is losing center depth, and seeing Zemgus in a Flyer's sweater What if you could trade Larsson, 2017 1st and a prospect for him? It hurts a little but I agree with your nightmare scenario. You have Ennis - Eichel - Simmonds and then Kaner - Reinhart - ROR... I think I just felt it move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 What if you could trade Larsson, 2017 1st and a prospect for him? It hurts a little but I agree with your nightmare scenario. You have Ennis - Eichel - Simmonds and then Kaner - Reinhart - ROR... I think I just felt it move. I do that deal all day every day, though depending on the value of the prospect you might have to throw a 3rd or a 2nd in there. God, just thinking of those lines.... :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 His recent slump aside, I think Zemgus is one of those players that will never stop growing. I think he'll be every bit as effective a playoff player as Simmonds, but he doesn't bring the same physical intimidation. I do as well. Does it seem like maybe he had more free reign last year. I just sense there will be an uptick sooner than later. He's not a 2 point player in 16 games obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I would prefer seeing Moulson used in a package to get something. I have never seen him as anything special Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I would prefer seeing Moulson used in a package to get something. I have never seen him as anything special I think he is in the top 5 of the team in terms of points. Also our golden redhaired awesome sauce center Jack Eichel lives with him. I think Moulson is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I would prefer seeing Moulson used in a package to get something. I have never seen him as anything special Moulson carries little to no trade value because of his contract. He can't even be a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Moulson carries little to no trade value because of his contract. He can't even be a rental. Yeap. Limited NTC and a $5 M cap hit for the next 3 years, he ain't going nowhere Penguins looking for defense, Flames, Oilers selling, and the Hawks may make a move with so many defensemen. http://thehockeywriters.com/pittsburgh-penguins-trade-market-materializing-for-jim-rutherford/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 What if you could trade Larsson, 2017 1st and a prospect for him? It hurts a little but I agree with your nightmare scenario. You have Ennis - Eichel - Simmonds and then Kaner - Reinhart - ROR... I think I just felt it move. Dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Dude! look what we traded for ROR... that was also a dude moment but it happened. Sometimes teams do dumbs#!t. Edited November 13, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I don't really mind our defense right now. Bogosian will be back in at some point, Ristolainen is really establishing himself as a top notch player, McCabe is playing well, Franson is doing exactly what you want him to do, Pysyk has been very steady. That's 5 already with Gorges, Weber and Colaiocovo left to take the 6th spot. While none of those guys are great you can mix and match any of them in a short term situation and make it work. If you want another player to take one of the bottom 2 spots I can see that but there will be a number of those guys who can be acquired for essentially nothing it just depends what you're looking to acquire in terms of a skill set. I feel like we have puck movers right now but could use a little more snarl on the back end. I'd look for a prototypical stay at home rough and tumble defender. One that actually defends though, not Weber. Sticking with the Flyers theme they'd be very open to moving pieces off their back end. Schenn, Streit, and Schultz are probably guys they'd move if given the chance. Streit is probably the best player there but he's 37 years old, has another year left on his deal and a 5+M cap hit. He also more of an offensive defenseman. Schenn is the stay at home guy but his mobility is an issue. If I could get him for nothing I'd take him and add him to that 5/6 mix but he's not worth an asset. Does anybody really Schenn is an upgrade on Gorges? Wayne Simmonds at 24 costs you a lot though. He cost the Flyers Mike Richards who, at the time, was the team captain and a great 2 way centerman. Granted Brayden Schenn was also in that deal but he was part of the "prospect" piece of that deal. Wayne Simmonds at 27 on a cap strapped bad team costs you less in terms of established players but he will cost you youth. Either youth you have or future youth in terms of picks. We already made a trade for Simmonds at 24. His name is Evander. We don't have the pieces left to outbid others for Simmonds, assuming he was available. Can we just be patient with the guys we got and see what they grow into? I can agree with this sentiment, but really an upgrade is needed over Gionta, McGinn and a few others in the top six. This easily is rectified once Kaner gets back. However even then I would feel that they could use an uptick. Simmonds is a very refined player in his zone and has the same attributes as Kane and O'Reilly. He'd be an amazing fit. Other than that, I would love to go after Petrovic, or one of the defensemen in Florida. Even a Matheson type in a prospect trade. If he was available. Pretty sure our top four is Kane Ennis O'Reilly Eichel. Looking at ice time, the next two are Gionta and GIrgensons. Girgs should improve, Eichel will improve. Reinhart is waiting in line to replace Gionta. Not seeing the top six as a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 We already made a trade for Simmonds at 24. His name is Evander. We don't have the pieces left to outbid others for Simmonds, assuming he was available. Can we just be patient with the guys we got and see what they grow into? Pretty sure our top four is Kane Ennis O'Reilly Eichel. Looking at ice time, the next two are Gionta and GIrgensons. Girgs should improve, Eichel will improve. Reinhart is waiting in line to replace Gionta. Not seeing the top six as a problem. Long term top 6, currently Ennis - Eichel - O'Reilly Kane - Reinhart - ????? If we can kill in that last spot, at the expense of some depth talent and draft picks, we're golden Pony Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Long term top 6, currently Ennis - Eichel - O'Reilly Kane - Reinhart - ????? If we can kill in that last spot, at the expense of some depth talent and draft picks, we're golden Pony Boy No hope for someone from Girgensons/Larsson/Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste/draft picks/free agency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) No hope for someone from Girgensons/Larsson/Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste/draft picks/free agency? No to FA, IIRC Murray said last FA he doesn't like going that way. And yes, there's hope for Fasching, Bailey, and Baptiste, but I'd rather have established talent. If the ROR trade taught me anything, it's established talent of luring potential. Only Fasching out of that trio has even close to the skill set Simmonds has, and that's all potential. Larsson is what he is, a very solid 3rd line player. Girgensons too, a great complimentary winger on the 1-2 lines and a great 3rd line center. But none of them are Simmonds, and none of them come close IMO. Simmonds is the absolute perfect player in a playoffs series, and given Evander's health issues, having 2 of them wouldn't hurt. Even two healthy Kanes/Simmonds would just be a relentless combination Edited November 13, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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