qwksndmonster Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 “Selfishly, for the Buffalo Sabres, the first three picks (in ‘16) will be part of the lottery as opposed to just the first pick,” Murray said. “We’re not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next year but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery. “In a perfect world, I think I’d still support the worst team getting the first pick, though.” So he hopes the Sabres get better next year and still have a shot at the top pick thanks to the broken new system. This is the smoking gun? Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 You know what this thread needs? He-Man. Yes. I don't think Aud should have to answer that. How rude. I deserve that, as I revealed myself as the sap and easy mark (ha!) when I insisted upthread that a fair question was afoot. “Selfishly, for the Buffalo Sabres, the first three picks (in ‘16) will be part of the lottery as opposed to just the first pick,” Murray said. “We’re not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next year but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery. “In a perfect world, I think I’d still support the worst team getting the first pick, though.” So he hopes the Sabres get better next year and still have a shot at the top pick thanks to the broken new system. This is the smoking gun? Yeesh. Thanks for getting it in such pithy terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Here's the quote, again: "Selfishly, for the Buffalo Sabres, the first three picks (in ‘16) will be part of the lottery as opposed to just the first pick,” Murray said. “We’re not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next year but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery. So, to review: He does not expect the team to contend for a Cup next year (um, yeah), so he hopes they are on the way up (sure!) and, even though he disagreed with configuring the system this way, also have a shot (but probably not a great one (given a finish in/around 20 (?))) at one of the top 3 picks (okay). Seriously. Yeah what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yeah what he said. Yup. Exactly. Probably why there was no reaction out of Tdot about Murray 'wanting' to tank next year. Bc no fair reading of his quote implies such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Here's the quote, again: "Selfishly, for the Buffalo Sabres, the first three picks (in ‘16) will be part of the lottery as opposed to just the first pick,” Murray said. “We’re not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next year but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery. So, to review: He does not expect the team to contend for a Cup next year (um, yeah), so he hopes they are on the way up (sure!) and, even though he disagreed with configuring the system this way, also have a shot (but probably not a great one (given a finish in/around 20 (?))) at one of the top 3 picks (okay). Seriously. Exactly. No need to gild the lily with superfluous parentheses. Apparently we agree he said what he said. He hopes they have a shot at one of the top three picks. He hopes they are not a playoff team. I hate that. I mean, you can only demoralize the fan base so much. Jesus, he doesn't have to be so cold and calculating. They take too much advantage of the fact that the fans will fill that building no matter what. Throw us a bone. Say, "We're not going to contend, but I hope we're on the way up, even make a run at the playoffs. If we fall short of that, although I disagree with the new lottery rules, at least we'll have a shot at a top pick. I hope it's a small shot, because no way do we want to be in the running for 30th again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I love Timmy but I don't like that quote and while he may have misspoken I think PA's take on it jives more with what was said than everyone else's and I think the content of this thread would be a lot different if he wasn't the one to start it. I read the quote before reading the thread an reacted exactly as I did in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I read the quote before reading the thread an reacted exactly as I did in this thread. I understand everyone can take it differently, but I think the jumping all over PA (not saying you did that, I wasn't paying attention to usernames so I don't know who did) isn't called for because while i've explained that I think Tim misspoke and doesn't want us to miss the playoffs, would rather have a playoff team, it is reasonable for PA to have taken that quote as hoping to miss and hit on the lottery, because inclusive in Tim's hope statement was the phrase "having a chance to win the lottery", and to fulfill that hope, the playoffs need to be missed. If it wasn't PA it wouldn't have been attacked like that because technically that's what Tim said, even though it's not what he meant IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Exactly. No need to gild the lily with superfluous parentheses. Apparently we agree he said what he said. He hopes they have a shot at one of the top three picks. He hopes they are not a playoff team. I hate that. I mean, you can only demoralize the fan base so much. Jesus, he doesn't have to be so cold and calculating. They take too much advantage of the fact that the fans will fill that building no matter what. Throw us a bone. Say, "We're not going to contend, but I hope we're on the way up, even make a run at the playoffs. If we fall short of that, although I disagree with the new lottery rules, at least we'll have a shot at a top pick. I hope it's a small shot, because no way do we want to be in the running for 30th again." So, you want him to use different words to describe a reality he considers (and I consider) undeniable and inevitable. Now who's into semantics? And, btw, I don't think your semantics are right. I don't read/hear his use of "hope" as glossing the lottery pick phrase. To my eye and ear, "hope" was intended to attach to being on the way up, and then the lottery pick phrase was just added as a recognition that the team likely will be out of the playoffs next year. Which is almost certainly correct. I'm looking at the forecast for Sunday. I sure as sh!t don't hope it rains/snows on the parade, but I recognize it almost certainly will. There's your bone. Edited March 13, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 So, you want him to use different words to describe a reality he considers (and I consider) undeniable and inevitable. Now who's into semantics? And, btw, I don't think your semantics are right. I don't read/hear his use of "hope" as glossing the lottery pick phrase. To my eye andaer, "hope" was intended to attach to being on the way up, and then the lottery pick phrase was just added as a recognition that the team likely will be out of the playoffs next year. Which is almost certainly correct. I'm looking at the forecast for Sunday. I sure as sh!t don't hope it rains/snows on the parade, but I recognize it almost certainly will. There's your bone. And I heard/read it the same way PA did, so I don't think he's just trolling and looking for things to be upset about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Keep in mind Tim said this before he knows what the draft will bring. And, if it brings McDavid, what agents will be knocking at the door hoping to get their clients on the kid's wing. Maybe if he's reading this, Tim is chuckling at getting me all excited. Maybe the message was intended for his fellow GMs. Don't try to take advantage of me — we're not even trying to make the playoffs next year. Maybe Tim's the real troll. So you do hate Taro. Tim is a pretty smart hockey man. He knew better than everyone that the FAs he signed last summer wouldn't stop his team from coming in last. While most hockey observers and many many people on this site assumed it meant we would be at least play=off contenders this season. Now he realizes that this team is going to have a lot of youth on it. Especially on D and at C so he can not possibly think he will be a cup contender and probably realizes the Play-offs are a long shot too. So he hopes the team wins the lottery. Can't speak for other tankers but I honestly dont think the Sabres will be a play=off team next season.. So I hope they win the lottery in 2016 as well - be it a 2 % chance or a 8% chance. I look forward to cheering them on next season as the new lottery system comes into effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I hate that quote. In my mind it reads like PA reads it, that he hopes they improve, but not enough to be a playoff team. Now here is what I hope. I hope that GMTM chose his words poorly. I hope he meant to say, I don't think we'll be ready to be a playoff team next season but I hope we see improvement. There is a big difference there. And again, it comes down to intent. He didn't say that though. He said but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery. And that choice of phrase is problematic IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I think this was a case of Murray being his literal, grumpy, mad hockey scientist self. He knows that with another top 3 pick next year, he could really build a special team. Next year, the rest of us would take a youngin-led playoff team with a first round exit and be very happy. TM would rather have a top 3 pick, so he says so. I would be shocked if he used "roster manipulation" to get it done, though. He already traded for Kane, he wants to be better next year. He just sees the world differently than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 How will this play in the lockerroom? Guys read the papers (OK, they go online). How much stench of losing can you dump on young guys before they start believing it? As far-fetched as the playoffs might be next year, this is sports. Unexpected things happen. As much as #analytics wants us to believe players are machines that, if placed in the right locations on the ice to accomplish certain recordable tasks, can increase the chance of winning measurably — they are human. What did Mucks think of the 96-97 Sabres' chances of winning a round? What chance did Regier give the 05-06 Sabres of being within a microbe of a Cup final? These Sabres aren't those teams, and they aren't this year's Islanders either. But consider some of the things that went into making the Islanders believe. Snow keeps his pick, making a huge statement to his players that he believes they won't be anywhere near the McEichel sweepstakes. Wang sells the team and will be out the door in two years. Snow trades for Leddy and Boychuk, taking advantage of cap space to take players off the hands of cap-strapped teams. Again, no way am I arguing that the Sabres are those teams. I just question the wisdom of being Debbie Downer all the time. Didn't we have enough clinicial depression with Lindy and Darcy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Again, no way am I arguing that the Sabres are those teams. I just question the wisdom of being Debbie Downer all the time. Didn't we have enough clinicial depression with Lindy and Darcy? I think it's totally reasonable to question the tone Tim uses with the media. I don't think that it will have any effect on the players long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I think this was a case of Murray being his literal, grumpy, mad hockey scientist self. He knows that with another top 3 pick next year, he could really build a special team. Next year, the rest of us would take a youngin-led playoff team with a first round exit and be very happy. TM would rather have a top 3 pick, so he says so. I would be shocked if he used "roster manipulation" to get it done, though. He already traded for Kane, he wants to be better next year. He just sees the world differently than we do. Very well said. I just don't like the idea of "self-fulfilling prophecies." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I have a thought... what if we wait until the offseason to see what Murray's intent truly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I have a thought... what if we wait until the offseason to see what Murray's intent truly is. Why don't we talk about it now, and then for the rest of the season, and then the offseason because that's what we do: talk way too much about the same things :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I think it's totally reasonable to question the tone Tim uses with the media. I don't think that it will have any effect on the players long term. Have you thought of it as if you were a player? You can argue it should light a fire under their to hear what their GM thinks of them. But it could easily have the opposite effect. After what we've endured, and seen the players endure, for two years, I can't believe some people have no problem with Murray said — or even what he might be proposing out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I have a thought... what if we wait until the offseason to see what Murray's intent truly is. I can't wait for this offseason. No more tank talk, no more third jerseys, no more....tank! Hopefully we land McDavid, his affect on the FA market is much more than Eichel's. Throw in the fact that he is indeed better than Eichel, and you could see a drastic difference in the turnaround time required to bring us to the palyoffs. I think both bring long term success, but McDavid certainly speeds that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I have a thought... what if we wait until the offseason to see what Murray's intent truly is. Agreed. Especially since Murray's quote pertains to the fairness of the lottery rules, and not to his overall management philosophy. His comments on dealing UFAs do pertain to his management philosophy, but the OP has chosen to ignore those statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 And I heard/read it the same way PA did, so I don't think he's just trolling and looking for things to be upset about. Fair. Even so: So, you want him to use different words to describe a reality he considers (and I consider) undeniable and inevitable. Now who's into semantics? I hate that quote. In my mind it reads like PA reads it, that he hopes they improve, but not enough to be a playoff team. Now here is what I hope. I hope that GMTM chose his words poorly. I hope he meant to say, I don't think we'll be ready to be a playoff team next season but I hope we see improvement. There is a big difference there. And again, it comes down to intent. He didn't say that though. He said but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery. And that choice of phrase is problematic IMO. I really don't hear him saying that he hopes the team doesn't improve enough to make a run at the playoffs next year. I hear him saying that that is what he expects to happen. How will this play in the lockerroom? . . . . Again, no way am I arguing that the Sabres are those teams. I just question the wisdom of being Debbie Downer all the time. Didn't we have enough clinicial depression with Lindy and Darcy? Now we're getting somewhere. That's a fair question, coupled with fair inferences. My guess is that the players see the same reality he does, and they, like him, know the deal. I don't think GM TM calling it like it is changes anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Exactly. No need to gild the lily with superfluous parentheses. Apparently we agree he said what he said. He hopes they have a shot at one of the top three picks. He hopes they are not a playoff team. I hate that. I mean, you can only demoralize the fan base so much. Jesus, he doesn't have to be so cold and calculating. They take too much advantage of the fact that the fans will fill that building no matter what. Throw us a bone. Say, "We're not going to contend, but I hope we're on the way up, even make a run at the playoffs. If we fall short of that, although I disagree with the new lottery rules, at least we'll have a shot at a top pick. I hope it's a small shot, because no way do we want to be in the running for 30th again." He did not say that according to the article. He did say "“We’re not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next year but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery." Lot of room between not contending for a Satanley Cup and DFL.. Bubble team? Wild Card? Conference Champion? 21st? Edited March 13, 2015 by 3putt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Have you thought of it as if you were a player? You can argue it should light a fire under their ###### to hear what their GM thinks of them. But it could easily have the opposite effect. After what we've endured, and seen the players endure, for two years, I can't believe some people have no problem with Murray said — or even what he might be proposing out loud. If I was a player, I'd probably be well versed in ignoring the media by now. And honestly, by the beginning of next season after a summer full of acquisitions most players will have forgotten the entire thing, even if it enraged them at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 “Selfishly, for the Buffalo Sabres, the first three picks (in ‘16) will be part of the lottery as opposed to just the first pick,” Murray said. “We’re not going to be a Stanley Cup contender next year but I hope we’re on the way up while still having a chance to win the lottery.“In a perfect world, I think I’d still support the worst team getting the first pick, though.” Guess what trolls, if you're not a contender in the Stanley Cup playoffs, you're a lottery team. This isn't news. This thread blows. So here's some Joseph Decreux: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 All playoff teams are not contenders, the Kings be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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