MattPie Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 As soon as Enroth becomes the starter, he will become the #1 whipping boy. Then every loss will be his fault even if he losses five straight games 1-0. It might be to the board's benefit if Miller stays in BFLO as long as possible. :angel: And people will be clamoring for Hackett (or new goalie coming back in trade). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Don't worry I'll do your job for you Using the same ages and any year they played at least 10 or more games Ryan Miller 0.909 sv% in 126gp (2002-2007, minus 03/04 (too few games played)) Jhonas Enroth 0.913sv% in 68gp (2010-2014, minus his 2009 season with 1game played)) There you go. At the Same ages they roughly have a similar sv% with Enroth's being better. Miller however had played almost double the number the games. Take it however you want. Miller's consistency since 2008-09 to present is why he is considered above average and one of the best GT in the league. Will Jhonas Enroth (who is about to be the same age as 08 Miller) have the same consistency over the course of those years? I don't know but hope to find out soon. I meant to reply to this earlier. You didn't have to do my job for me, I knew the answer. Just curious, why is it that .004 difference when Enroth is better, you consider it 'similar', but in an earlier post you made Miller is 'better' with .003 difference? Nevermind, you don't have to answer that. As I said earler, you have missed many of my posts. I have made mention of Miller's consistency, in fact I have praised his consistency several times over the course of my time here on this forum. He is withut a doubt one of the most consistent goaltenders in the league. My issue is with the fact that many give him elite status. Miller is far from elite. I also have an issue with his attitude. Tom doesn't agree with me and I am sure there are others, but that is my own personal opinion. I love the fact that he calls out his teammates when they need to be called out. The problem is, until the Penguins game a couple of years ago when Miller got lambasted which was followed by Pegula comparing him to his daughter, Miller NEVER took the blame. You can call your teammates out, as long as you take responsibility for your own actions. I would love for the rest of the team to have had the balls to call Miller out when needed. Another issue I have is with people taking this so damn seriously. It usually starts off with a civilized conversation, and then some start to take it personally. Usually after they've twisted my words and used it against me. I look forward to seeing Enroth getting a full season next year as well. Hopefully 60 games. It'll put an end to all this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Can it please all just end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Lets look at at the 2013-14 shut out stats for the other 3 division's cellar teams; Edmonton Oilers - 3 Nashville Predators - 2 NY Islanders - 1 That doesn't reflect well on Ryan Miller. Their goalies aren't playing behind dynamite lines either, but they've managed to achieve shut outs nonetheless. Edited January 28, 2014 by Jsixspd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 If some are so upset by this thread, why do they keep coming back? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 This coming from the person that thinks 'wins' is the most telling stat for a goaltender? Do you think "wins" is the same as "shutouts?" Lets look at at the 2013-14 shut out stats for the other 3 division's cellar teams; Edmonton Oilers - 3 Nashville Predators - 2 NY Islanders - 1 That doesn't reflect well on Ryan Miller. Their goalies aren't playing behind dynamite lines either, but they've managed to achieve shut outs nonetheless. I ask again: why in the world do regular-season shutouts matter, especially for non-playoff teams (not to mention historically bad non-playoff teams)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Lets look at at the 2013-14 shut out stats for the other 3 division's cellar teams; Edmonton Oilers - 3 Nashville Predators - 2 NY Islanders - 1 That doesn't reflect well on Ryan Miller. Their goalies aren't playing behind dynamite lines either, but they've managed to achieve shut outs nonetheless. Why do you care si much about shutouts? They are meaningless. Most teams get shutouts by allowing around 20 shots in that game. They are a team stat. Brodeur, all-history leader in them described them as a team effort and not an individual one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Do you think "wins" is the same as "shutouts?" I think goaltenders do not win games, they keep from losing them. Goaltenders do not score goals, therefore it is up to the team to get them wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think goaltenders do not win games, they keep from losing them. Goaltenders do not score goals, therefore it is up to the team to get them wins. I think that is a fairly arbitrary distinction. Forwards block shots for example or tie up a man. And what to defence count as? I think it is an offensive-centric view point of hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The importance of a shut out goes up, as the team's collective goal output decreases. For a team with a lower goal output, a shutout could mean the difference between a win and a loss. And Miller apparently isn't up to it any more - he hasn't had one in nearly 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think that is a fairly arbitrary distinction. Forwards block shots for example or tie up a man. And what to defence count as? I think it is an offensive-centric view point of hockey That's all well and good, but wins are not indicators of how good a goaltender is. Many average goaltenders have great win percentages, many great goaltenders play on losing teams. It's a poor statistic to gauge the quality of a goaltender no matter how you look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The importance of a shut out goes up, as the team's collective goal output decreases. For a team with a lower goal output, a shutout could mean the difference between a win and a loss. And Miller apparently isn't up to it any more - he hasn't had one in nearly 2 years. If a team's collective goal output drops below one, it isn't the goalies fault if they lose That's all well and good, but wins are not indicators of how good a goaltender is. Many average goaltenders have great win percentages, many great goaltenders play on losing teams. It's a poor statistic to gauge the quality of a goaltender no matter how you look at it. I agree, i don't think it is a good indicator. There are 18 other guys on the ice, any of whom can influence it one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) If a team's collective goal output drops below one, it isn't the goalies fault if they lose I agree, i don't think it is a good indicator. There are 18 other guys on the ice, any of whom can influence it one way or another. There are people on this thread mocking Enroth's record. Is it fair to hold it against him when Enroth went 0-5-3 during a stretch when the team scored 7 goals? Edit: I made that post before your second reply showed up. (I really wish the powers that be would change that) Edited January 28, 2014 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's not the forum who thinks Miller is elite. It's not Buffalo or Buffalo writers. Its virtually every NHL fan, writer, commenter, etc. I would have to respectfully disagree with this. Looking at what others have to say on boards like this, twitter, etc...not many teams' fans are thrilled with the idea of parting ways with pieces of their future, for a 33 year old goalie who will be a free agent in July. Then again a lot of them say he has "attitude problems," which they clearly know nothing about. (My personal opinion, he is an elite goalie...he is a top-5 goalie in the NHL, and he could carry a team on his shoulders to a cup.) It is also funny to me that fans of the Wild, Blues and Pens all seem to think their goalies are just as good as Miller. Some Pens' fan was saying that Buffalo and Pittsburgh could swap goalies, but Buffalo would have to throw in Moulson and a D-prospect! (WTF?) Many St. Louis fans were saying that Elliott and Halak are just as good, rather than realizing how good their defense is. The Wild fans counter with, "But, we have Harding, and Kuemper is going to be a star." I am not saying these people are well-informed, or even pay attention...but there are just as many who think he is average, as there are who think he is elite. Winning a gold medal would shut them up quick. (and raise his value.) The mind-blowing quote..."I am concerned with Miller being USA's goalie, because he is depressed and used to losing." (WOW!) Again, these are fans who do not know him or watch him...people who do, understand how good he is. But, not all (NHL) fans think he is elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 If it means anything, I would NEVER give Miller for Fleury straight up, much less throw something else into the deal. Something substantial would have to come back to make that deal worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I would have to respectfully disagree with this. Looking at what others have to say on boards like this, twitter, etc...not many teams' fans are thrilled with the idea of parting ways with pieces of their future, for a 33 year old goalie who will be a free agent in July. Then again a lot of them say he has "attitude problems," which they clearly know nothing about. (My personal opinion, he is an elite goalie...he is a top-5 goalie in the NHL, and he could carry a team on his shoulders to a cup.) It is also funny to me that fans of the Wild, Blues and Pens all seem to think their goalies are just as good as Miller. Some Pens' fan was saying that Buffalo and Pittsburgh could swap goalies, but Buffalo would have to throw in Moulson and a D-prospect! (WTF?) Many St. Louis fans were saying that Elliott and Halak are just as good, rather than realizing how good their defense is. The Wild fans counter with, "But, we have Harding, and Kuemper is going to be a star." I am not saying these people are well-informed, or even pay attention...but there are just as many who think he is average, as there are who think he is elite. Winning a gold medal would shut them up quick. (and raise his value.) The mind-blowing quote..."I am concerned with Miller being USA's goalie, because he is depressed and used to losing." (WOW!) Again, these are fans who do not know him or watch him...people who do, understand how good he is. But, not all (NHL) fans think he is elite. That is one crazy picture. I lurk on a few league-wide boards, I guess different ones than what you must read, and my experience is the opposite. Same goes for hockey writers whom I read. If it means anything, I would NEVER give Miller for Fleury straight up, much less throw something else into the deal. Something substantial would have to come back to make that deal worth it. It means a lot, man. A lot. Hugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The importance of a shut out goes up, as the team's collective goal output decreases. For a team with a lower goal output, a shutout could mean the difference between a win and a loss. And Miller apparently isn't up to it any more - he hasn't had one in nearly 2 years. Do you think he had a better year 2 years ago than he's having this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I would have to respectfully disagree with this. Looking at what others have to say on boards like this, twitter, etc...not many teams' fans are thrilled with the idea of parting ways with pieces of their future, for a 33 year old goalie who will be a free agent in July. I think fans rarely are thrilled with the idea of rentals, at least the valuation of them leading up to the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I meant to reply to this earlier. You didn't have to do my job for me, I knew the answer. Just curious, why is it that .004 difference when Enroth is better, you consider it 'similar', but in an earlier post you made Miller is 'better' with .003 difference? Nevermind, you don't have to answer that. As I said earler, you have missed many of my posts. I have made mention of Miller's consistency, in fact I have praised his consistency several times over the course of my time here on this forum. He is withut a doubt one of the most consistent goaltenders in the league. My issue is with the fact that many give him elite status. Miller is far from elite. I also have an issue with his attitude. Tom doesn't agree with me and I am sure there are others, but that is my own personal opinion. I love the fact that he calls out his teammates when they need to be called out. The problem is, until the Penguins game a couple of years ago when Miller got lambasted which was followed by Pegula comparing him to his daughter, Miller NEVER took the blame. You can call your teammates out, as long as you take responsibility for your own actions. I would love for the rest of the team to have had the balls to call Miller out when needed. Another issue I have is with people taking this so damn seriously. It usually starts off with a civilized conversation, and then some start to take it personally. Usually after they've twisted my words and used it against me. I look forward to seeing Enroth getting a full season next year as well. Hopefully 60 games. It'll put an end to all this nonsense. See bolded part one and compare to bolded part two. I didn't twist anything. I didn't attack you. I said I am sick of hearing the same old conversation about how Miller isnt elite and Enroth is (insert whatever you want here). You really want to see where Miller is within the league. Go through and take all the goalies with at least 21 starts or more. Average out their season sv% and that gives you the baseline. Now compare it to Miller's. If he falls below it than he is below average. If he falls above, he is above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Rhea Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) How many of you Miller fanboys think he is a HOFer? I mean, only the "elite" make it there, right? If he is truly elite he should be a slam dunk HOFer, right? I don't see it but that is my opinion. Edited January 28, 2014 by BocceBall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) That is one crazy picture. It means a lot, man. A lot. Hugs! :blush: Edited January 28, 2014 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 How many of you Miller fanboys think he is a HOFer? I mean, only the "elite" make it there, right? If he is truly elite he should be a slam dunk HOFer, right? I don't see it but that is my opinion. That's where the real elite elite live, yes. DO I think Rask, Quick, Rinne, Bishop or whoever is a slam dunk for the HOF? No I don't. Ergo no goalies are elite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Can it please all just end? Soon, I hope. There were three entities sucking the life out of Sabre Nation, dividing us, frustrating us… Lindy, Darcy and The Core. We are oh so close to being rid of all of them and officially starting anew in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Soon, I hope. There were three entities sucking the life out of Sabre Nation, dividing us, frustrating us… Lindy, Darcy and The Core. We are oh so close to being rid of all of them and officially starting anew in 2014. Naivety really is quaint :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 How many of you Miller fanboys think he is a HOFer? I mean, only the "elite" make it there, right? If he is truly elite he should be a slam dunk HOFer, right? I don't see it but that is my opinion. not HOF. Just extremely good. There are probably only 10 HOF goalies that played with a mask. So Miller getting in is very unlikely. Especially with Hasek, and Broudeur pretty much shoe-ins. He's not a HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.