SwampD Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 implying? there's no implication there. it's clear as day. westerners are the euros/canada/u.s. africans are ... well, african. the point that is being made is that the west is doing africa no favors in the long-run -- and, in fact, is ensuring a vacuum for warlords like this kony character to step into -- when it (the west) continues to treat africa like a protectorate that the west must periodically swoop into save from violence, anarchy, and such. I get it. I just don't buy it. There is no way that removing a despot and building schools to empower people is harmful in the long run. Might the West have to "save" them again in the future,.. maybe. But that is a terrible reason to not do it now, and would not be the cause of any future problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 They already have, this video is like 10yrs to late, read up to things people, kony been out of oeganda for 5 yrs now, but he is spread and decimated over 3 other african nations like south sudan and congo. can't believe people are buying into this ###### again. did USA find oil in oeganda or something ? Sorry To inform you but I have read up on this. He's been doing his dirty business for about 25 years now not 10. And its spelled Uganda. I can't believe people would ignore this just because its gone on so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 There is no way that removing a despot and building schools to empower people is harmful in the long run. Might the West have to "save" them again in the future,.. maybe. But that is a terrible reason to not do it now, and would not be the cause of any future problems. The substance of what you wrote might as well have been written 100 or even 150 (500?) years ago by a Dutch/English/French/Portugese imperialist. The West is not going to solve Africa's problems through deus ex machina foreign policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The substance of what you wrote might as well have been written 100 or even 150 (500?) years ago by a Dutch/English/French/Portugese imperialist. The West is not going to solve Africa's problems through deus ex machina foreign policy. Then maybe ' the west ' should get out of the middle east. Oh ya I forgot. There's oil in them there hills. Because after all thats what its all about. If there's an abundance of natural resources then there's a good reason to be there and the foreign policy is considered sound. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Then maybe ' the west ' should get out of the middle east. Oh ya I forgot. There's oil in them there hills. Because after all thats what its all about. If there's an abundance of natural resources then there's a good reason to be there and the foreign policy is considered sound. Just sayin. I'm not here to defend western (and/or U.S.) policy in the mid east. Nor am I here to defend domestic energy policy. There are goo gobs of natural resources in Africa. But certainly the mid east's oil is of far greater strategic importance. For now. Post script: Here's to the hastened death of the rhetorical device "just sayin'." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 How about if we just shoot him but don't build any schools or send food - would that be OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 How about if we just shoot him but don't build any schools or send food - would that be OK? Someone else will pop up in his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well then we should just forget about it. What's for dinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I agree with the idea that Africa needs to solve its own issues, and that us playing imperialist lending a helping hand to the helpless is both counterproductive and rude. However, equally i think it is wrong to watch an atrocity occurring and just shrug and say "ain't my problem" Military force is a moronic idea, it has not worked in the past for the US and is no better than Kony or any other warlord who uses military power to solve a problem. The west should offer a hand on the form of education and health reform and let Africa do the rest. It doesn't help that people like the president of SA 5 years ago still denied the link between aids and HIV, but i digress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 If you have to be cryptic to get people to watch, it's not worth watching. Some of my favorite discoveries followed a cryptic exposure. If you need constant clarity, you're missing a lot. Kony? Perhaps not your taste. Ruling out everything cryptic? You're missing a lot in this world. I stopped waiting to be fed years ago. Try it! i don't think that the invisible children guys are scam artists, but they do seem like activist-douchebags. i mean, c'mon: the kony 2012 movie is seductive because it is grossly over-simplified. my favorite critique thus far is from max fisher, a guy who knows more about international affairs (and africa specifically) than i will ever know. here's what he wrote in the atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-soft-bigotry-of-kony-2012/254194/ But the damage of Kony 2012 is probably already done, and that damage is real. First, it's likely to actually decrease the amount of help that goes into Central Africa. The video is a joy to watch and spread because it tells Americans that by simply watching a video, and at most maybe buying a $30 "action kit" of wristbands and stickers, they have done all that's necessary; they are absolved of responsibility. How much money has Invisible Children soaked up that could have gone to actually effective campaigns or more experienced NGOs? How many people might have put their energy, which after all is finite, toward something more constructive? As Amanda Taub and Kate Cronin-Furman write, "Campaigns that focus on bracelets and social media absorb resources that could go toward more effective advocacy, and take up rhetorical space that could be used to develop more effective advocacy." Worst of all, the much-circulated campaign subtly reinforces an idea that has been one of Africa's biggest disasters: that well-meaning Westerners need to come in and fix it. Africans, in this telling, are helpless victims, and Westerners are the heroes. It's part of a long tradition of Western advocacy that has, for centuries, adopted some form of white man's burden, treating African people as cared for only to the extent that Westerners care, their problems solvable only to the extent that Westerners solve them, and surely damned unless we can save them. First it was with missionaries, then "civilizing" missions, and finally the ultimate end of white paternalism, which was placing Africans under the direct Western control of imperialism. And while imperialism may have collapsed 50 years ago, that mentality persists, because it is rewarding and ennobling to feel needed and to believe you are doing something good. Thank you. More context for a subject I've been little aware of for years. I am especially intrigued by the idea of a people "needing" another to be fixed. I will puzzle and puzzle 'till my puzzler's sore. You are thoughtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I agree with the idea that Africa needs to solve its own issues, and that us playing imperialist lending a helping hand to the helpless is both counterproductive and rude. However, equally i think it is wrong to watch an atrocity occurring and just shrug and say "ain't my problem" Military force is a moronic idea, it has not worked in the past for the US and is no better than Kony or any other warlord who uses military power to solve a problem. The west should offer a hand on the form of education and health reform and let Africa do the rest. It doesn't help that people like the president of SA 5 years ago still denied the link between aids and HIV, but i digress Smart and compassionate post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Sorry To inform you but I have read up on this. He's been doing his dirty business for about 25 years now not 10. And its spelled Uganda. I can't believe people would ignore this just because its gone on so long. well its spelled oeganda in my language so sorry about that, but clearly you haven't read through the ###### they are feeding us. his army has been decimated in Uganda for over 5 yrs now, yeah they still need to catch him, but his so called "followers" have spread out over several neighbouring nations. but bottom line is he isn't in Uganda anymore, and that nation is trying to rebuild and move forward from the horror. There are several of those child soldiers living whole over europe, grown up, came in and got accepted as refugees, but those people are a ticking time bomb. If they really want to catch him, they probably need to go and search in countries like, south-sudan (or whatever its called now), Somalia or congo(wich is trying to deal with his forces right now). How about if we just shoot him but don't build any schools or send food - would that be OK? We actually don't need to send any food anywhere. Food programs are the biggest mistake we have made, they are often misused as a means of power by local military forces, or anyone to solidify their power base in the region. If you really want to help out africa, cut farmers subsidies in western europe and norther america, this will have two clear effects. 1.Those subsidies make it that overflow of food production gets dumped on the african markets, where local farmers can't compete anymore. 2.Also it makes us people in the west pay more then we should for our food while it can be produced much cheaper coming from Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 well its spelled oeganda in my language so sorry about that, but clearly you haven't read through the ###### they are feeding us. his army has been decimated in Uganda for over 5 yrs now, yeah they still need to catch him, but his so called "followers" have spread out over several neighbouring nations. but bottom line is he isn't in Uganda anymore, and that nation is trying to rebuild and move forward from the horror. There are several of those child soldiers living whole over europe, grown up, came in and got accepted as refugees, but those people are a ticking time bomb. If they really want to catch him, they probably need to go and search in countries like, south-sudan (or whatever its called now), Somalia or congo(wich is trying to deal with his forces right now). We actually don't need to send any food anywhere. Food programs are the biggest mistake we have made, they are often misused as a means of power by local military forces, or anyone to solidify their power base in the region. If you really want to help out africa, cut farmers subsidies in western europe and norther america, this will have two clear effects. 1.Those subsidies make it that overflow of food production gets dumped on the african markets, where local farmers can't compete anymore. 2.Also it makes us people in the west pay more then we should for our food while it can be produced much cheaper coming from Africa. But sending food assuages by white man's guilt. I still tell my kids to clean their plates because kids are starving in Africa, and they tell me to box the leftovers up and send the to Africa just like I told my parents 30 years ago. I agree with the idea that Africa needs to solve its own issues, and that us playing imperialist lending a helping hand to the helpless is both counterproductive and rude. However, equally i think it is wrong to watch an atrocity occurring and just shrug and say "ain't my problem" Military force is a moronic idea, it has not worked in the past for the US and is no better than Kony or any other warlord who uses military power to solve a problem. The west should offer a hand on the form of education and health reform and let Africa do the rest. It doesn't help that people like the president of SA 5 years ago still denied the link between aids and HIV, but i digress Yes - it's not like we have been doing this for the last 50 years with no effect. Maybe if the peace corp carried M16's they could actually get some sh!t done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 How ironic that these guys are so concerned about invisible children that they go and get themselves arrested for lewd and indecent exposure. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/431470_10151419491210515_188355460514_23562246_812418247_n.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliketofrolic Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The U.S. tried to get him in 2008, he put children on the front lines and we failed to get him. He also isn't in Uganda anymore. The video is inaccurate and this country doesn't need and can't afford another war. The armies that oppose Kony have also been accused of murder, using children soldiers and other atrocities. I worry that this stupid film will change public opinion in such a way that some idiot politician decides to use this for political gain and supports some poorly thought out military action that does more harm than good (like killing his children soldiers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 How ironic that these guys are so concerned about invisible children that they go and get themselves arrested for lewd and indecent exposure. https://fbcdn-sphoto...812418247_n.jpg One guy got arrested. Just FYI. I don't have an opinion on the whole KONY 2012 thing regardless, but don't try to make it sound like the whole organization was parading through the streets naked... just one guy was. Also, hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The U.S. tried to get him in 2008, he put children on the front lines and we failed to get him. He also isn't in Uganda anymore. The video is inaccurate and this country doesn't need and can't afford another war. The armies that oppose Kony have also been accused of murder, using children soldiers and other atrocities. I worry that this stupid film will change public opinion in such a way that some idiot politician decides to use this for political gain and supports some poorly thought out military action that does more harm than good (like killing his children soldiers). I can't disagree with any of this. We don't need and can't afford to pay for another war. We have idiot politicians who think we need to do something about this (just as long as someone like Christiane Amanpour tells him or her to do so). And, we have idiot "ministers of the gospel" who think we need to get involved in something that isn't happening on our turf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliketofrolic Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 But this isn't the first time the U.S. has tried to stop Kony. Back in December 2008, the United States, along with Ugandan and Congolese soldiers, coordinated a mission to kill Kony, Operation Lightning Thunder. Writing in Foreign Policy, Michael Wilkerson, a journalist who's covered Uganda, described how the operation became a debacle: At the last minute, helicopter gunships (which can be heard five minutes away) were substituted for quiet fighter jets, officially due to bad weather (though the revelation last week that Uganda is shopping for new jets suggests faulty equipment could have been the culprit). To make matters worse, the Ugandan ground forces that were supposed to catch escaping LRA members arrived a full 72 hours late, bizarrely underestimating the time it would take them to move on foot through dense jungle. And Congolese troops that were supposed to protect nearby villages never showed up. So while some rebels were captured or killed by the helicopter force, the escaping LRA fighters went on a vengeful spree, killing more than 800 civilians as they pillaged virtually every village on their way to the Central African Republic. --http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/09/the-con-of-kony-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 The U.S. tried to get him in 2008, he put children on the front lines and we failed to get him. He also isn't in Uganda anymore. The video is inaccurate and this country doesn't need and can't afford another war. The armies that oppose Kony have also been accused of murder, using children soldiers and other atrocities. I worry that this stupid film will change public opinion in such a way that some idiot politician decides to use this for political gain and supports some poorly thought out military action that does more harm than good (like killing his children soldiers). Two of those right now are enough. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 --http://reason.com/bl...on-of-kony-2012 As I gleaned through that article, I noticed that the term "Christianist" came up. This is a term that is used disparagingly and derisively for one. Second, Kony has been known to make things up as he goes along. In order to appease his Sudanese supporters, he also adopted views out of the Qu'ran. (This material was covered in a recent interview that was done on Wretched Radio with regard to an article from Christianity Today. While I tend to take some things from CT with a grain of salt, this one was meant to refute whatever claims that Kony could make about being regenerate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 There's a huge group of people a couple blocks from my office with KONY 2012 t-shirts and signs. I thought this one had died off quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Perhaps they're there for a 4/20 celebration. Is there a huge cloud of smoke wafting from their general vicinity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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