Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[apuszczalowski]

Most of it. I know that Regier did not fight to keep Briere despite the fact that Ruff wanted him to.

I believe thats still all on Quinn from what I have been told............

 

That's the thing, though. Their trade value was sky high. If you don't want them on the team or if you don't know if you do, you sign them anyway then trade them. The Rangers would have traded for CD. You don't just let them walk and get nothing.

 

Did we let Lydman and Tallinder walk, as well, or did we trade them? I don't remember.

I'm not going to argue with you on that, the biggest issue has never been that they were let go, but that they were never replaced. Quinn and Golisano just filled their spot with guys already in thier system

 

Both were signed as FAs by their current teams (Ducks and Devils)

Edited February 4, 2013 by apuszczalowski

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

C'mon, you can cherry pick 11 forwrads off of any other team in the league to make 5 goals to compare them to Kassian also, right?

 

No...those are the Sabres entire 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines for the entire season....including Foligno, Stafford and Ennis who some people considered the #1 line coming into the year. Foligno himself was given as a reason to let Kassian go.

 

On the side, if there has only been 5-10 Kassians ever, they must not be particularly integral to winning a championship.

 

Neely, Gillies, Shannahan, Bertuzzi.....think again.....

 

I understand where you're coming from and I am 100% on board with your preferred vision of what this franchise's identity should be, but this assessment of Kassian is still very much in the "Concept of Kassian" and not so much the reality.

 

In the Vancouver games I've watched this season, he is very much a perimeter skill player, mainly using his size in puck possession and not actually laying people out left and right. His confidence has grown playing with the Sedins and being given more ice time, which has helped his brain make the connection between puck possession and play making--- something he lacked during his time here (which is not at all surprising for a rookie).

 

Hodgson regularly drives hard to the net and spends an awful lot of time in the "dirty areas" when called for. A case can be made that Kassian plays a "soft" game and it is Hodgson that plays "hard". I realize that will sound crazy to some, but to my mind, it is very much a matter of perception rather than what is being realized on the ice.

 

I wish Kassian were still here and the player we had Conceptualized, but for now anyway, he is a more talented and fully idealized version of Drew Stafford, not a young Todd Bertuzzi and certainly no Cam Neely.

 

Hodgson has improved since last year and I actually like his skillset and attitude this year. Kassian though also has bloddied his 2 opponents in fights, and has the skill to play on the 1st line and protect much like the fellas I just mentioned.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Ghost of Dwight Drane

[Robviously]

While I agree that the team has suffered since Quinn made those horrible moves to let Drury and Briere leave, I disagree about the full rebuild part. They pretty much replaced the guys they lost with young players in their system, which is what usually happens when teams rebuild. Had they went out and tried to fill those spots with veteran FAs, then I would say its not a rebuild. I would say teh issue with this team is that whomever is the scape goat GM has been in permanent rebuild mode that when they let a veteran player go, they just replace inhouse, and up until probably Regher, Ehrhoff and Ott, they very rarely traded for veterans that were more then a rental at the deadline, most of the players they pickup were guys they hoped were diamonds in the rough that have yet to develop

You're basically referring to the regular player turnover that every team goes through as "rebuilding." Every team lets older players go to make room for new, younger players (because every team drafts a bunch of new, young players every year).

 

Rebuilding is smashing up what you have to build something that will be much better later. The Sabres have never done that. Rebuilding means making intertemporal trades -- we trade quality now to get quality later (and opposing teams are trading the future for the present). And it means making a bunch of those trades all at once so that you bottom out. We certainly didn't do that.

 

Since Black Sunday, we made two "rebuilding" trades (in 6 years!). We traded Brian Campbell for Steve Bernier and a 1st round pick (later Ennis) and we traded Gaustad for a 1st round pick last year. But we also traded Steve Bernier for Craig Rivet (basically) and we decided NOT to trade Connolly at the deadline (he had value once) and gave him a two year extension instead. We traded Roy for Ott, and we held onto Leopold and Regehr when we could have used this season to audition younger defensemen.

 

Player turnover is not rebuilding, and we're not going to rebuild under Darcy Regier. Why should he? He's getting unnecessary contract extensions by not bottoming out and keeping the team limping along.

 

Most of it. I know that Regier did not fight to keep Briere despite the fact that Ruff wanted him to.

Which means he absolutely should be held accountable for that disaster. Quinn and Golisano are the main culprits, but Regier's fingerprints are on it.

[LGR4GM]

If you want to see this team rebuild it would look something like this:

Miller, Vanek or Pommers, Regehr, Ellis, McCormick, Hecht, Leopold, Ehrhoff or Myers, Leino, stafford, Sulzer, Ruff and all the coaches, and most likely your GM. You trade, don't sign and get rid of everyone over the age of 26 basically (a couple of exceptions) and then you tank for 1-3 years or luck out and your current prospects pan out. You bring in guys through FA based on need and skill and then you have completely rebuilt your core within 5 years. Thats a real rebuild.

 

That is what should have happened on July 2, 2007. They should have dismantled and already dismantled team and started stocking up picks with the hopes that Van and Poms could hold out until the new core was brought up. As opposed to the sticking your finger in the hole on your sinking ship every year and trusting that your captain (ruff) and your Navigator (darcy) would get you to dry land (top 6 in conference) before your sink (see the last 5 years).

[TrueBlueGED]

Neely, Gillies, Shannahan, Bertuzzi.....think again.....

 

Might want to check how many Cups Neely and Bertuzzi have won.

 

Guys like that can of course be very important contributors on championship teams and contenders, but they're far from necessary. Try finding championship teams that have won without high-end centers.

Edited February 5, 2013 by TrueBluePhD

[SwampD]

I believe thats still all on Quinn from what I have been told............

 

I'm not going to argue with you on that, the biggest issue has never been that they were let go, but that they were never replaced. Quinn and Golisano just filled their spot with guys already in thier system

 

Both were signed as FAs by their current teams (Ducks and Devils)

Two more valuable assets that we had and got nothing for. :wallbash:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Might want to check how many Cups Neely and Bertuzzi have won.

 

Guys like that can of course be very important contributors on championship teams and contenders, but they're far from necessary. Try finding championship teams that have won without high-end centers.

 

There have been dozens if not hundreds of "high end" centers the past 3 decades if you want to count Hodgson or Ennis as that. Heck....who have the Sabres had? Bert, Turgeon, LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Gilmore (whoops...nevermind!...Lindy made him a winger).....

 

How many rugged forwards who could score? Gare? And he was a pound for pound guy...not a true physical find.

 

Kassian is a Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka's factory. Hodgson is a case of Wonka Bars 3 months after the contest expired....

 

I'm bringing these analogies until you figure it out!!!

[drnkirishone]

Drane admit it your actually Kassian's father aren't you?

[TrueBlueGED]

There have been dozens if not hundreds of "high end" centers the past 3 decades if you want to count Hodgson or Ennis as that. Heck....who have the Sabres had? Bert, Turgeon, LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Gilmore (whoops...nevermind!...Lindy made him a winger).....

 

How many rugged forwards who could score? Gare? And he was a pound for pound guy...not a true physical find.

 

Kassian is a Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka's factory. Hodgson is a case of Wonka Bars 3 months after the contest expired....

 

I'm bringing these analogies until you figure it out!!!

 

I get it. And I still don't buy that rarity=necessity/importance. Hasek was even more rare than Kassian-types, that doesn't mean I'm about to advocate we pick up every 5-11 goaltender until we get the next Hasek. You need high-end centers to win a championship, they're unarguably necessary (note I didn't say they were sufficient). You don't need Neely or Bertuzzi types (that's not to say they aren't valuable).

[Eleven]

I believe thats still all on Quinn from what I have been told............

 

I'm not going to argue with you on that, the biggest issue has never been that they were let go, but that they were never replaced. Quinn and Golisano just filled their spot with guys already in thier system

 

Both were signed as FAs by their current teams (Ducks and Devils)

 

 

No.

[Grumpy]

You also can't say that Drury and Briere would have had the same careers since leaving Buffalo that they had if they stayed. Drury might still be playing, and maybe Briere would have worked as a #1 centre here. The Flyers have had plenty of other options that he wasn't needed in that role there, and drury is out because of injuries.

 

And as i was corrected before here, Black Sunday wasn't Regiers fault, that was Quinn and Golisano who take the blame.

 

Drury might still be playing?

 

Briere a #1 center with the roster we have had? Which "studs" with toughness were going to protect him? You do live in a dream world. Anyone who blames Quinn for DR's incompetence just doesn't follow the NHL IMO. Come on Man!

[Eleven]

I believe thats still all on Quinn from what I have been told............

 

I'm not going to argue with you on that, the biggest issue has never been that they were let go, but that they were never replaced. Quinn and Golisano just filled their spot with guys already in thier system

 

Both were signed as FAs by their current teams (Ducks and Devils)

 

 

No.

[Grumpy]

 

 

 

No.

Thank you!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I get it. And I still don't buy that rarity=necessity/importance. Hasek was even more rare than Kassian-types, that doesn't mean I'm about to advocate we pick up every 5-11 goaltender until we get the next Hasek. You need high-end centers to win a championship, they're unarguably necessary (note I didn't say they were sufficient). You don't need Neely or Bertuzzi types (that's not to say they aren't valuable).

 

There are 50 high end centers currently in the league. There are maybe 5 very good to elite power forwards....

 

Darcy has somehow managed not to have a beat on any of them.

 

And I think the 2010 US Olympic team was proof of how you can build a team without many pretty-boys.

[nfreeman]

Might want to check how many Cups Neely and Bertuzzi have won.

 

Guys like that can of course be very important contributors on championship teams and contenders, but they're far from necessary. Try finding championship teams that have won without high-end centers.

There have been dozens if not hundreds of "high end" centers the past 3 decades if you want to count Hodgson or Ennis as that. Heck....who have the Sabres had? Bert, Turgeon, LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Gilmore (whoops...nevermind!...Lindy made him a winger).....

 

How many rugged forwards who could score? Gare? And he was a pound for pound guy...not a true physical find.

 

Kassian is a Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka's factory. Hodgson is a case of Wonka Bars 3 months after the contest expired....

 

I'm bringing these analogies until you figure it out!!!

 

I'd just like to point out at this juncture that even in desperate times like these, we are lucky to have 2 high-value-added, but very different, posters here -- the factual/analytical and the spiritual/humorous.

 

Now if our favorite team would just remove collective head from collective rectum, we might have something worthy of these (and many other) quality observations.

 

And just for yuks, the post-lockout breakdown of SC winners and their elite centers/beastial wingers:

 

Carolina: C -- Staal; Brind'amour; W -- Recchi Decision: C

Anaheim: C -- Getzlaf, W -- none really Decision: C

Detroit: C -- Datsyuk, Zetterberg; W -- Franzen, Holmstrom Decision: C

Pittsburgh: C -- Crosby, Malkin; W -- Guerin Decision: C

Chicago: Toews, Sharp/Kane; W -- Hossa, Byfuglien (part-time D) Decision: C (but it's close -- Byfuglien was a huge part of that SC win)

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand; W -- Lucic Decision: W (but it's close)

LA: Kopitar, Richards; W -- Brown, Penner Decision: C

 

 

And there we are. Gotta go with TBPHD on this one.

[Eleven]

Thank you!

 

Again. Ruff really wanted Briere and Regier refused to argue with Quinn. That's on Regier. It's on Quinn, too, to be sure, but it's on Regier, too.

 

I'd just like to point out at this juncture that even in desperate times like these, we are lucky to have 2 high-value-added, but very different, posters here -- the factual/analytical and the spiritual/humorous.

 

Now if our favorite team would just remove collective head from collective rectum, we might have something worthy of these (and many other) quality observations.

 

And just for yuks, the post-lockout breakdown of SC winners and their elite centers/beastial wingers:

 

Carolina: C -- Staal; Brind'amour; W -- Recchi Decision: C

Anaheim: C -- Getzlaf, W -- none really Decision: C

Detroit: C -- Datsyuk, Zetterberg; W -- Franzen, Holmstrom Decision: C

Pittsburgh: C -- Crosby, Malkin; W -- Guerin Decision: C

Chicago: Toews, Sharp/Kane; W -- Hossa, Byfuglien (part-time D) Decision: C (but it's close -- Byfuglien was a huge part of that SC win)

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand; W -- Lucic Decision: W (but it's close)

LA: Kopitar, Richards; W -- Brown, Penner Decision: C

 

 

And there we are. Gotta go with TBPHD on this one.

 

You're forgetting a letter, IMO: G. Need C and G. The rest works around those two positions.

[drnkirishone]

Carolina: C -- Staal; Brind'amour; W -- Recchi Decision: C

Anaheim: C -- Getzlaf, W -- none really Decision: C

Detroit: C -- Datsyuk, Zetterberg; W -- Franzen, Holmstrom Decision: C

Pittsburgh: C -- Crosby, Malkin; W -- Guerin Decision: C

Chicago: Toews, Sharp/Kane; W -- Hossa, Byfuglien (part-time D) Decision: C (but it's close -- Byfuglien was a huge part of that SC win)

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand; W -- Lucic Decision: W (but it's close)

LA: Kopitar, Richards; W -- Brown, Penner Decision: C

Point of order here......

 

Recchi is a beatial winger? really?

 

Guerin was certainly not an elite beastial winger by the time Crosby won his cup

 

Kane wasn't tried at center until this past season, I don't recall Sharp playing alot of center until after the year they won the cup, and Hossa whilest a great player I would not call him a powerforward let alone a beastial winger

 

Marchand is a elite center? does he even play center?

[Grumpy]

 

 

Again. Ruff really wanted Briere and Regier refused to argue with Quinn. That's on Regier. It's on Quinn, too, to be sure, but it's on Regier, too.

 

 

 

You're forgetting a letter, IMO: G. Need C and G. The rest works around those two positions.

So, how do you know what Ruff really wanted? Substantiate please.

[Eleven]

So, how do you know what Ruff really wanted? Substantiate please.

 

Somewhere in mid-March 2011 there's a post where I describe a conversation with a person who will remain anonymous, but who definitely knew the situation. It's in a thread about my trip to the ACC to see the Sabres play the Leafs.

 

I promised not to out my source. Sorry.

[Grumpy]

I'll accept your word that it was legit. I'll admit that at the time, I preferred Drury if we could only have one and later that summer would have let Vanek go for the package of number ones. Now, if I were Vanek, I'd be entertaining all offers to move on after next year and get out of this mess.

[Eleven]

I'll accept your word that it was legit. I'll admit that at the time, I preferred Drury if we could only have one and later that summer would have let Vanek go for the package of number ones. Now, if I were Vanek, I'd be entertaining all offers to move on after next year and get out of this mess.

 

At the time, I would have preferred Drury, too. Funny how hindsight works.

[waldo]

I'll accept your word that it was legit. I'll admit that at the time, I preferred Drury if we could only have one and later that summer would have let Vanek go for the package of number ones. Now, if I were Vanek, I'd be entertaining all offers to move on after next year and get out of this mess.

 

+1... and what would be the Sabres chances of replacing him...nill ...this is the first year in a few Lindy is giving him more than 13 min a game..lol .. we will know early next season.. if he does not sign early..he will be trade bait. a pretty good quality loaner to a contender.

 

Pom would be smart to depart too.. another drury/briere situation? up in the same year?

Edited February 5, 2013 by waldo

[Robviously]

I'll accept your word that it was legit. I'll admit that at the time, I preferred Drury if we could only have one and later that summer would have let Vanek go for the package of number ones. Now, if I were Vanek, I'd be entertaining all offers to move on after next year and get out of this mess.

At the press conference for the Regier extension, they said they'd already started talking to Vanek, Pominville, and Miller about contract extensions (or that they were working on it or something). Hopefully they get everything done this summer. And hopefully Vanek is interested in spending his whole career in Buffalo (did Pegula's "Hockey Heaven" stuff do the trick?).

[papazoid]

UPDATE:

 

Kassian 5G/1A/6 PTS (+1) & Gragnani (AHL)

(Daniel Sedin 2 Goals, Henrik Sedin 0 Goals= TOTAL 2)

 

Hodgson 5G/4A/9 PTS (even) & Sulzer 2G/1A/3PTS (+5)

(Vanek 8 Goals, Pominville 5 Goals = TOTAL 13)

Edited February 5, 2013 by papazoid

[carpandean]

UPDATE:

 

Kassian 5G/1A/6 PTS (+1) & Gragnani (AHL)

(Daniel Sedin 2 Goals, Henrik Sedin 0 Goals= TOTAL 2)

 

Hodgson 5G/4A/9 PTS (even) & Sulzer 2G/1A/3PTS (+5)

(Vanek 8 Goals, Pominville 5 Goals = TOTAL 13)

 

Sabres are definitely the top-heavier team:

 

Sabres:

#1 Line: 18G

Bottom 9: 5G

Defense: 4G

Total: 27G

 

Canucks:

#1 Line: 7G

Bottom 9: 8G

Defense: 7G

Total: 22G

Edited February 5, 2013 by carpandean