fan2456 Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Whether or not Briere and Drury were effective players after leaving Buffalo (they were/are) is irrelevant. The drop off in on-ice/lockerroom leadership and the skill/tenacity levels they provided at the center position was so great it would be rivaled, arguably, by Nashville losing both Weber and Suter this year. In one fell swoop, the total team identity was cut out of the franchise, and the remaining team turtled into "fragile little children". I'm not sure if coaching could suture that wound. Really? They went to better teams and did not elevate them. WE dropped off because the rules went post lock-out and didn't favor the small soft Sabres. We could debate this forever, and I see both sides of the arguement. I am on record in other posts. Darcy has come late to the party in the need for size. Could that be why the smallest center, who might be the best skater in the NHL has not been signed yet? We want to give Lindy, who has in bed with Darcy for 15+ years a free pass? Fine you can, and I won't anymore. Absolutely--- it was the collective loss of not only Drury and Briere, but also Dumont, McKee, Grier, Campbell... as well as the Tim Connolly of 2005-06 which can't be discounted. All in a span of 18 months or so. Connolly left the sabres 18mos after Briere and Drury? I don't think so! Grier skated so well when he came back. We have to quit living in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Really? They went to better teams and did not elevate them. WE dropped off because the rules went post lock-out and didn't favor the small soft Sabres. We could debate this forever, and I see both sides of the arguement. I am on record in other posts. Darcy has come late to the party in the need for size. Could that be why the smallest center, who might be the best skater in the NHL has not been signed yet? We want to give Lindy, who has in bed with Darcy for 15+ years a free pass? Fine you can, and I won't anymore. Connolly left the sabres 18mos after Briere and Drury? Grier skated so well when he came back. We have to quit living in the past. Tim Connolly was approaching a superstar level of play in 2005-06, including in the postseason. He was never the same after the Schaefer hit. 18 months from the 2006 offseason where Grier, Dumont and McKee left--- then Drury/Briere, Connolly never quite returned and Campbell being traded. You're creating a circular argument. No one's living in the past, but the severe drop off in talent and leadership is what has afflicted the team's success, not coaching. Yes, he was more consistently successful. Could that have been because of the greatest goalie to ever play the game? He (Hasek) faced double the shots every night of Brodeur. If having Hall of Fame caliber talent on your roster is a detriment to a coach's credibility, then coaching is completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Sorry. I miss read your post. You stated when connolly left and I was wrong in my response.. I just don't think the guys we let go were as signifigant as what Darcy failed to bring in. You were right on TC. I don't get as hooked up in leadership as the board does, which I feel reflects the media. Who were the "old" leaders on Chicago's cup team? How about the old guys who had won before on the King's this year? Tampa Bay pre-lockout? It is over-rated and perpetuated by the media. Talent wins. Pitts cups were led by kids who never won before., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Sorry. I miss read your post. You stated when connolly left and I was wrong in my response.. I just don't think the guys we let go were as signifigant as what Darcy failed to bring in. You were right on TC. I don't get as hooked up in leadership as the board, which I feel reflects the media. Who were the "old" leaders on Chicago's cup team? How about the old guys who had won before on the King's this year? Tampa Bay pre-lockout? It is over-rated and perpetuated by the media. Talent wins. Pitts cups were led by kids who never won before., You don't need to be old to be a leader, or have won a championship to be a leader. Sometimes, yes, players grow into leadership roles as they mature. Other guys are leaders from moment one (see: Girgensons during D-camp). Leaders can be young or old, veterans or inexperienced, played on winning teams or losing teams....but not everybody is a leader, and after 07 the Sabres didn't have leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Sorry. I miss read your post. You stated when connolly left and I was wrong in my response.. I just don't think the guys we let go were as signifigant as what Darcy failed to bring in. You were right on TC. Oh no, you and I are in agreement there--- there was no cavalry brought in to replace what was lost. Their roles were "filled" by guys that should've remained in the bottom six. Paille, MacArthur, etc--- even Roy was miscast as a #1 center when he was so much more effective as a 2nd/3rd line winger. I believe the failure stems from management. Inarguably, ownership did not commit to maintaining a winner and it trickled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 You don't need to be old to be a leader, or have won a championship to be a leader. Sometimes, yes, players grow into leadership roles as they mature. Other guys are leaders from moment one (see: Girgensons during D-camp). Leaders can be young or old, veterans or inexperienced, played on winning teams or losing teams....but not everybody is a leader, and after 07 the Sabres didn't have leaders. Agreed. And then leaders who left, didn't like waht they saw on the Sabres, which influenced their decisions. They wanted to win, and felt Darcy and his coach did not have the vision. That's my opinion. And yes, I know opinions are like a-holes, since we all have one. Oh no, you and I are in agreement there--- there was no cavalry brought in to replace what was lost. Their roles were "filled" by guys that should've remained in the bottom six. Paille, MacArthur, etc--- even Roy was miscast as a #1 center when he was so much more effective as a 2nd/3rd line winger. I believe the failure stems from management. Inarguably, ownership did not commit to maintaining a winner and it trickled down. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 So we are still living with "Black Sunday"? Two small guys, one who faded out of prominence in hockey within a year and the other who continues his trend of being a signifigant minus player in the playoffs. God we would be so good with those two "big" centers. LOL. Ruff is average. Quit blaming others for his poor coaching. I don't see how anyone could equate today's game with the first year post lockout unless they just started watching hockey in the last 8 years. Coaching in those years doesn't equate with 2012. Sorry. Just my opinion. Well, this is possibly the dumbest assertion that's been posted on this board in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Here's the case for Lindy: - 4 final 4s in 9 years before getting kneecapped by ownership - getting a team to the finals that was comprised of a great goaltender and a bunch of string and rubber bands - winning with a team built around a goalie, and then winning with a team built around a bunch of speedy, smallish forwards but no elite players - being chosen to be an assistant coach for one of the best hockey teams of all time -- and chosen by hockey people, not a bunch of overstuffed buffet types Everyone is of course entitled to his or her own opinion, but I don't see how anyone could look at the sabres' roster since Black Sunday and say that Lindy has been holding them back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 haha Probably THE most famous phrase on SNL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Probably THE most famous phrase on SNL... I thought it was "Live from New York, It's Saturday Night!" :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Probably THE most famous phrase on SNL... It was a dark and stormy night. Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 When you're on the power play, hope you score more goals than you give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 It was a dark and stormy night. Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord. I'm Gumby, dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbochan Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 It was a dark and stormy night. Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord. C-I-L-L. My landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNGold Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Agreed. And then leaders who left, didn't like waht they saw on the Sabres, which influenced their decisions. They wanted to win, and felt Darcy and his coach did not have the vision. That's my opinion. And yes, I know opinions are like a-holes, since we all have one. Agreed! OMG! Did I just read 2 "Agreed's" on one post. Where the @!#%$#! am I??? I've never seen that on this board in the last decade. Maybe I should go play the lottery. :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Too many players come over from other teams and struggle in Ruff's system. He needs to either change his system or get more or better assistants to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Too many players come over from other teams and struggle in Ruff's system. He needs to either change his system or get more or better assistants to help him. Not impressed by the least experienced coaching staff in the league? Me either. Ruff's insecurity won't allow anything better, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Not impressed by the least experienced coaching staff in the league? Me either. Ruff's insecurity won't allow anything better, I guess. Yep, you guess, you assume, and you pass it off as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Too many players come over from other teams and struggle in Ruff's system. He needs to either change his system or get more or better assistants to help him. This argument has been thoroughly debunked. Must it continue to be used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This argument has been thoroughly debunked. Must it continue to be used? If they repeat it enough, they think it will become true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Yep, you guess, you assume, and you pass it off as fact. This board houses opinions. Isn't that obvious to everyone? My opinion that Ruff is too insecure to hire more experienced coaches is clearly that, an opinion. I'm not passing it off as fact. How do you explain the staff he has assembled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This board houses opinions. Isn't that obvious to everyone? My opinion that Ruff is too insecure to hire more experienced coaches is clearly that, an opinion. I'm not passing it off as fact. How do you explain the staff he has assembled? I believe it was divined by the Mayans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This board houses opinions. Isn't that obvious to everyone? My opinion that Ruff is too insecure to hire more experienced coaches is clearly that, an opinion. I'm not passing it off as fact. How do you explain the staff he has assembled? I think drane explained it. something to do with penn state i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I believe it was divined by the Mayans. Actually, I think it was Harold Camping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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