Lanny Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'm excited about the Sabres going after Regehr. It's a clear need for the Sabres, especially after the Philly series. However, were the Sabres sleeping on the Flyers? You could see this coming miles away. And for what Philly got for Carter, the Sabres easily could have made the same trade with Gerbe, their 1st, and their 3rd. Granted, that would give the Sabres their first pick in the draft not until the 4th round. The Sabres could have given up even less to get Richards. My thought on Richards is that he did not get along with Laviolette and that was one of the major reasons for the trade in addition to salary dump. So you're telling me that Gerbe, career high 31 points and 5'6" height, is that much better than former 7th overall pick Voracek who has seasons of 50 & 46 points to warrant giving up 8 picks in the 1st round? Voracek is also 2 years younger than Gerbe. Even if all things are equal, which they're not close, Columbus is in the Western Conference (for the time being). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 So you're telling me that Gerbe, career high 31 points and 5'6" height, is that much better than former 7th overall pick Voracek who has seasons of 50 & 46 points to warrant giving up 8 picks in the 1st round? Voracek is also 2 years younger than Gerbe. Even if all things are equal, which they're not close, Columbus is in the Western Conference (for the time being). In terms of goals, Gerbe scored more this year, but Voracek had more points in more games played. Even if you take Gerbe out and substitute him for someone else, the Sabres have the assets to make a trade for Carter. Even with the 8th pick being a good pick too, the Sabres could have done Sekera, Kassian, 1st and 3rd for Carter or some other deal to get Carter. A deal could have been done with the assets the Sabres had, that was my point. I've never been very impressed by Voracek and this year's draft class looks terrible. Carter would have been a big win for Buffalo. Even that piece of trash Mike Richards could have been had. It likely would have involved Brayden McNabb or some other top prospect, but it could have been done. The Sabres have the pieces to make a blockbuster trade. I would like to see them get a top notch center this offseason, and if you don't get Brad Richards, it's got to come through trades, and I do believe the Sabres have the assets to play and make a big time trade this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'm excited about the Sabres going after Regehr. It's a clear need for the Sabres, especially after the Philly series. However, were the Sabres sleeping on the Flyers? You could see this coming miles away. And for what Philly got for Carter, the Sabres easily could have made the same trade with Gerbe, their 1st, and their 3rd. Granted, that would give the Sabres their first pick in the draft not until the 4th round. The Sabres could have given up even less to get Richards. My thought on Richards is that he did not get along with Laviolette and that was one of the major reasons for the trade in addition to salary dump. Having said all that, is it just me or does it seem like the Flyers just tipped their hand about their UFA strategy? They have about $7.5 million left against the Cap. I get the sense they are going to keep Leino and some of the RFAs, but not all, and try to take a run at Ehrhoff or Bieksa. They still may not be done and clear out more cap space and go after Richards. Wouldn't that be something? Interesting. Yes, Richards (M) was living on borrowed time. He has increasingly fallen out of favor with both his team and the coach. I think his playoff performance (e.g. the blatant 5 min. elbow) combined with Philly's need to clear cap space dictated that he leave. I don't think the Sabres could really match either LA's or Columbus' offer - plus as has been stated, they are in the West - a decided advantage. Philly is not done dealing. I think Leino plus Versteeg will go, maybe even Hartnell - given the right deal. It also seems as if they now need a C. Powe and Betts are the only legitimate centers on the team. Looks like they might make more trades to clear the way for the "other" Richards. This sounds like a typical Holmstrom move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Richards talks: http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/06/23/mike-richards-talks-about-trade-to-kings/ He's heard about LA as a city? Wow. Normally, I think of it as an obscure Shangri-La that most people don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Yes, Richards (M) was living on borrowed time. He has increasingly fallen out of favor with both his team and the coach. I think his playoff performance (e.g. the blatant 5 min. elbow) combined with Philly's need to clear cap space dictated that he leave. I don't think the Sabres could really match either LA's or Columbus' offer - plus as has been stated, they are in the West - a decided advantage. Philly is not done dealing. I think Leino plus Versteeg will go, maybe even Hartnell - given the right deal. It also seems as if they now need a C. Powe and Betts are the only legitimate centers on the team. Looks like they might make more trades to clear the way for the "other" Richards. This sounds like a typical Holmstrom move. I assume you mean Paul Holmgren and not Thomas Holmstrom? Yes, the Western Conference point is one that I cannot refute for these two trades. I have seen big deals within the same conference/division such as this past season with Wheeler going to Atlanta for Peverley and Kessel going to Toronto. In fact, Buffalo traded Biron to Philly. But, yes, a trade of this magnitude is likely best served with the other Conference, and that is something I cannot refute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I've never been very impressed by Voracek and this year's draft class looks terrible. Carter would have been a big win for Buffalo. Even that piece of trash Mike Richards could have been had. It likely would have involved Brayden McNabb or some other top prospect, but it could have been done. The Sabres have the pieces to make a blockbuster trade. I would like to see them get a top notch center this offseason, and if you don't get Brad Richards, it's got to come through trades, and I do believe the Sabres have the assets to play and make a big time trade this offseason. It would have been really difficult to match Schenn, probably the #1 prospect in all of hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Sports Man Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 The Flyers are not done. They still have room to work with inside the cap. I don't expect them to be in the Brad Richards talk. Currently, they have in the neighborhood of 7.6 Mil under the cap, which will go up by Leighton's 1.55 when he gets buried with... the Phantoms I think is their AHL team. They also still need to fill three spots. One of those spots is Wayne Simmonds who is not under contract, the other to Voracek who is also not under contract. If I were to guess... Powe or Carcillo come back, or if they get outbid on Simmonds and Voracek, then hooray for Draft Picks. I see them targeting my choice for Sabres 3rd (or second center if Roy is traded to get a number one) in Avs Center Tomas Fleischmann, pending physical. They also may have the pieces to take a run at Paul Statsny as a top center, who they may now have the pieces to try to acquire (including sending Versteeg to clear the cap space). Oh come on, I mean it's not like there 2 best centers aren't on the team anymore and they are expecting a goalie to carry the team into the playoffs and even less likely that they trade a defenseman at the trade deadline.... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. wait a sec. They have a defensive corps with a strong leader who I think is just too filled with hatred to not come back from his injuries. It leaves them, arguably, better than the Sabres are right this moment (their wingers are better than ours, slightly behind up the middle, ahead on the blue line, a push in net and with the top prospect in the NHL in pocket). They also GOT something for the two top centers and top d-man, which is a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 The difference between the oh eight sabres and the flyers? Philly has Briere a 33 y/o (34 when the season starts) play-making dangler who is generously listed at 5.10, 180#. he played 88 games last year and 98 the year before that. i just don't think the guy holds up this year - i'd put the over/under on his regular season games in 2011-12 at 45. fwiw, it was at around this point in denis savard's career that he won the cup as a member of the canadiens (1993). he actually played on carbonneau's checking line that year, for the most part, and, iirc, didn't go in the ECF or the SCF because he had a bum wheel (in fact, i remember him in a suit, behind the bench for the SCF). i've always likened briere to savard. if their careers take similar paths, danny could return to buffalo for a swan song (well, strictly speaking, he'd return to phoenix, but buffalo's thought of as his first team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 a 33 y/o (34 when the season starts) play-making dangler who is generously listed at 5.10, 180#. he played 88 games last year and 98 the year before that. i just don't think the guy holds up this year - i'd put the over/under on his regular season games in 2011-12 at 45. fwiw, it was at around this point in denis savard's career that he won the cup as a member of the canadiens (1993). he actually played on carbonneau's checking line that year, for the most part, and, iirc, didn't go in the ECF or the SCF because he had a bum wheel (in fact, i remember him in a suit, behind the bench for the SCF). i've always likened briere to savard. if their careers take similar paths, danny could return to buffalo for a swan song (well, strictly speaking, he'd return to phoenix, but buffalo's thought of as his first team). One difference though between Briere and Savard is that Briere was a very late bloomer compared to Savard. Savard was a star very early in his career with Chicago. Briere did not fully start peaking until he was about 28-29 years old. I think it's a fair statement to say that as every year goes by, there is more uncertainty in Briere's consistency as a top line player (especially with the Flyers trading away Carter and Richards and he has to shoulder more scoring responsibility). However, Briere can be a leader and top centerman and facing the top checking lines still for another 2-3 more years in my mind based on his performance against Buffalo in the playoffs. I also think if he is surrounded by a balanced scoring team (like he was in Buffalo and Philadelphia), he will continue to perform at a top level. Age is always uncertain, but his play the last few years in Philly has given me no reason to doubt his ability to be a top line centerman for at least 2-3 more years. I would LOVE if Briere came back to Buffalo. I always hated the way it ended with him, and based on his interviews, it was very clear that this was a decision by OSP and LQ. I think he and the Sabres would be successful now if he came back. I would not say the same thing about Drury (obviously since he has a chronic knee problem). With Briere he could be an impact player today for Buffalo, with Drury he's got nothing left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Heres a question: If LA is trading how long before rival SJ jumps in? I am curious to see if they indeed make a push for something since 2 years in a row they have flopped out in the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 One difference though between Briere and Savard is that Briere was a very late bloomer compared to Savard. Good post. However, having watched them both, I would say Briere still doesn't belong in the same sentence. Maybe that's an age thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 especially with the Flyers trading away Carter and Richards and he has to shoulder more scoring responsibility this is an excellent point. where is that fairly recent quote from briere about how a big piece of his success in philly is that he was able to fly under the radar a bit, while other teammates saw the opponents' top d-men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Good post. However, having watched them both, I would say Briere still doesn't belong in the same sentence. Maybe that's an age thing. fwiw, i "likened" them to one another only in re: size, type of game, age, etc. -- denis is an all-time great, danny is a very, very good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Heres a question: If LA is trading how long before rival SJ jumps in? I am curious to see if they indeed make a push for something since 2 years in a row they have flopped out in the finals. 2 things: 1. The Snarks have not "flopped out in the finals" ever. They jump themselves consistantly before they ever get there and always well before their regular season output would dictate they should go out. 2. They've been disappointing (playoff-wise) for far more than 2 years. Honestly, if I was McLellan, I'd get rid of Thornton. I don't see that happening. Had they gone out in the 2nd round as I expected they would, I think they'd've had a housecleaning. As it is, I'm expecting them to be looking for a tweak or 2 (provided they can fit everything under the cap). I was hoping Marleau would be available, but I don't see that happening either after getting to the 3rd round again and him being a big part of getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 this is an excellent point. where is that fairly recent quote from briere about how a big piece of his success in philly is that he was able to fly under the radar a bit, while other teammates saw the opponents' top d-men? And that would be a big part of why the Philly fans were ready to run him out of town very early in his stay. He was the focus of attention at that point and he didn't thrive in that situation. It should be interesting to see if that same thing happens again now. Other than Giroux, I can't see anyone else being able to fill the Richards/Carter void. Maybe JVR makes the leap in the scoring department now, but I'm not quite sure he's there yet. 2 things: 1. The Snarks have not "flopped out in the finals" ever. They jump themselves consistantly before they ever get there and always well before their regular season output would dictate they should go out. That's too funny right there. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 2 things: 1. The Snarks have not "flopped out in the finals" ever. They jump themselves consistantly before they ever get there and always well before their regular season output would dictate they should go out. 2. They've been disappointing (playoff-wise) for far more than 2 years. Honestly, if I was McLellan, I'd get rid of Thornton. I don't see that happening. Had they gone out in the 2nd round as I expected they would, I think they'd've had a housecleaning. As it is, I'm expecting them to be looking for a tweak or 2 (provided they can fit everything under the cap). I was hoping Marleau would be available, but I don't see that happening either after getting to the 3rd round again and him being a big part of getting there. The flop was a fish pun. True and True on all accounts. I feel like they might want to make something happen and i am curious to know if thornton would become available even though he has control over his destiny (nmc) and is signed for 3 more years. LA improved their team a good deal imo. It all depends on if M Richards is really a bad teammate and a party animal or if he needed a change of scenery to freshen his locker room relationships. He can still and produce no matter where he is so, LA is definitely thinking cup. This knocks them out of the B Richards run i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 fwiw, i "likened" them to one another only in re: size, type of game, age, etc. -- denis is an all-time great, danny is a very, very good player. :) Denny Savard was a magician. Shooting, Skating, Passing... And he was pretty damn tough too. He was probably the player that was the most fun to watch in his prime...that includes Gretzky (who was more grace than dazzle). If not for his knees.....top 5 all time? Okay....I'm back now. (thanks for the digression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 :) Denny Savard was a magician. Shooting, Skating, Passing... And he was pretty damn tough too. He was probably the player that was the most fun to watch in his prime...that includes Gretzky (who was more grace than dazzle). If not for his knees.....top 5 all time? Okay....I'm back now. (thanks for the digression) All true. And it makes one wonder, just what the ###### was Irving Grundman thinking when he chose Doug friggin' Wickenheiser instead of the best Francophile player to hit the league between Perreault and Lemieux? :doh: I can't believe he wasn't drummed out of town right then and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 All true. And it makes one wonder, just what the ###### was Irving Grundman thinking when he chose Doug friggin' Wickenheiser instead of the best Francophile player to hit the league between Perreault and Lemieux? :doh: I can't believe he wasn't drummed out of town right then and there. I don't think the entire Province ever forgave Irv for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Good post. However, having watched them both, I would say Briere still doesn't belong in the same sentence. Maybe that's an age thing. I don't think it's an age thing at all. At this point in their respective careers, if you compared the two players, it would be virtually impossible for anyone to say Briere is or has been a better player than Savard. Let's forget that they both played in different eras and Savard played in an era when scoring was easy, early, and often. Even still, Briere has only had 1 90 point season and his 58 in 48 season was also huge. Aside from those two years in Buffalo, he's been a very good player, but not an elite player that has dominated the NHL. Savard was a top 5 player during the 1980s at a time when superstars were playing. Savard's contemporaries included guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Anderson, Neely, Hawerchuk, and so many other superstars that we will never see in terms of concentration in the NHL at a single point in time ever again. Even in that era Savard was a top 5 player. Briere's not even a top 5 player in the NHL today let-alone in that era. Savard was a different class of player than Briere and that has nothing to do with age. I'm 31, so I don't know what that means in terms of age and hockey knowledge, etc., but I'm not sure putting Briere in the same sentence as Savard is appropriate. Having said all that, I'd still want Briere back on the Buffalo Sabres today as I think he could help this team win a Stanley Cup and be an impact player for this team right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Gord Miller Hearing that Calgary is closing in on a deal for Ryan Smyth. He waives his no-trade and the Flames give up a late round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I don't think it's an age thing at all. in case you missed my reply to X: http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/19633-confirmed-non-sabres-trade-discussion/page__st__60__p__295130#entry295130 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 in case you missed my reply to X: http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/19633-confirmed-non-sabres-trade-discussion/page__st__60__p__295130#entry295130 ;) I saw your reply. I agree. I was only referring to the age factor. I saw Savard play, but not much as I was really young and for much of my early childhood I lived in Texas where we couldn't watch too many hockey games until about 1992. I've seen Briere for most of his career including his time in Phoenix. Based on that and the age point, I was replying to X. I watched some hockey in the 80s, but I was pretty young at that time and based on our geography after we moved from Buffalo and Connecticut to Texas, it was not easily available to watch. Most of the hockey I've grown up watching has been over the last 20 years. But, even based on that, you can make certain statements even about players you didn't watch too much of. For example, I never really saw Perrault play at all (at least not in his prime in the 70s), but I can say that he is one of the 3 best players to ever put on a Sabre uniform if not the best. Some players defy eras and age and are always considered greats no matter whether you saw them live or on tape or on highlights. That's my thought anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 John-Michael Liles to Leafs for 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 John-Michael Liles to Leafs for 2nd. That's it? A 30 yr old D-man is worth a 2nd rounder. Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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