Trade Target Watch

[TomSmith]

I have over 6,000 posts. If you read 5 of them, you would know that isn't the case and I'm a giant pervert. Do your homework.

You've volunteered all I need to know.

If you're a pervert I have no interest in doing any homework reviewing your posts.

[inkman]

No I cannot agree that size plays a bigger role in the NHL.

When you get players like Adam and Kassian their size advantage in junior is huge.

Put those players in the NHL and size wise they don't stand out from the crowd.

He's talking about Ennis' lack of size.

 

For every one 5'9" 170 lbs waif that has made it in the NHL, I can show you 500 that didn't. It takes extra-ordinary talent level to overcome a lack of size. Ask Nathan Gerbe about that.

[TomSmith]

I agree with you. You even said it yourself. Bigger players have a major advantage in the juniors due to size, but in the NHL, they don't "stand out from the crowd"... i agree. They do have an advantage in juniors. But, smaller players have a major disadvantage in the pros.

 

I have to ask, why do you keep saying "thugs". Kassian made one bad hit. Are players who hit, check, go to the boards, get in front of the net, thugs?

 

And, it's obvious you don't like the draft choice of Kassian, just wondering, who were you hoping for with that #13 pick?

That draft had a number of good players from the US U18 program.

The player I wanted to see the Sabres take was Morin.

 

Right now I'd give Atlanta Zack Kassian and a 1st round pick for Morin.

But Atlanta isn't about to make a trade like that.

 

As far as using the term "thugs' I'm not directing that at Kassian exclusively.

 

As far as small players go is Patrick Kane at a huge disadvantage?

[Two or less]

That draft had a number of good players from the US U18 program.

The player I wanted to see the Sabres take was Morin.

 

He not only fit a need for the Sabres but he's a player from NY State.

Right now I'd give Atlanta Zack Kassian and a 1st round pick for Morin.

But Atlanta isn't about to make a trade like that.

 

As far as using the term "thugs' I'm not directing that at Kassian exclusively.

 

As far as small players go is Patrick Kane at a huge disadvantage?

 

They would do it in a second and change their phone number so we couldn't call up with a changed mind....

 

And i'm big on Morin.

[LabattBlue]

That draft had a number of good players from the US U18 program.

The player I wanted to see the Sabres take was Morin.

 

Right now I'd give Atlanta Zack Kassian and a 1st round pick for Morin.

But Atlanta isn't about to make a trade like that.

 

As far as using the term "thugs' I'm not directing that at Kassian exclusively.

 

As far as small players go is Patrick Kane at a huge disadvantage?

The problem is that the Sabres have a bunch of skill guys in their top 6 with little to no grit between ALL of them combined. Even if Kassian becomes no more than a 20 goal 40-50 point guy, he would be a perfect fit for the top 6. This is a huge reason why the top 6 continues to struggle as they are currently made up.

[TomSmith]

They would do it in a second and change their phone number so we couldn't call up with a changed mind....

 

And i'm big on Morin.

No after moving to the OHL and playing the way he has in his first season, that ship has sailed, they aren't about to let him go for Kassian, even if you throw in a 1st rounder.

[TomSmith]

The problem is that the Sabres have a bunch of skill guys in their top 6 with little to no grit between ALL of them combined. Even if Kassian becomes no more than a 20 goal 40-50 point guy, he would be a perfect fit for the top 6. This is a huge reason why the top 6 continues to struggle as they are currently made up.

Where do you make the assumption that he'd be a 50 point player?

Or worse yet that he has any business playing as a top 6 forward on an NHL team?

 

Let me say it again, he hasn't even made a mark scoring wise in the OHL.

What magic is going take place when he gets to the NHL playing against far far better players?

 

You talk about 20 goal scorers like it's routine.

There's only something like 100 or so 20 goal scorers in the league.

[shrader]

I have to say that I love seeing someone speak out against the Kassian "he hits hard" love. I'm willing to give Darcy the benefit of the doubt since some of his more recent drafts look pretty good sa far, but I can't shake the feeling that it was a "please the fans" pick. Yes, I expect more than that from any NHL GM and scouting staff, but I still have a hard time shaking that thought.

[Two or less]

No after moving to the OHL and playing the way he has in his first season, that ship has sailed, they aren't about to let him go for Kassian, even if you throw in a 1st rounder.

 

No way of proving it, but i think you're very much wrong and over valuing Morin. He's had a great season, no one said he didn't. He's 18 years old/soon to be 19. Kassian made his OHL debut at age 17. Kassian 17 going on 18 was a point/per game scorer in the OHL, but his style of play was more then just a shooter. He checks, plays a 2-way game, plays by the boards, and is a grinder. Morin is more of a guy who goes down the ice, and gets into position to shoot. He's a sniper. A much less talented Brett Hull. Kassian is the more complete player and still a better prospect, despite being suspended for the reminder of the season.

[nfreeman]

No after moving to the OHL and playing the way he has in his first season, that ship has sailed, they aren't about to let him go for Kassian, even if you throw in a 1st rounder.

 

Where do you make the assumption that he'd be a 50 point player?

Or worse yet that he has any business playing as a top 6 forward on an NHL team?

 

Let me say it again, he hasn't even made a mark scoring wise in the OHL.

What magic is going take place when he gets to the NHL playing against far far better players?

 

You talk about 20 goal scorers like it's routine.

There's only something like 100 or so 20 goal scorers in the league.

I have to agree with both of these posts. Morin has 72 pts in 50 games (#11 in the OHL), while Kassian has 28 pts in 34 games. Also, they are the same age (actually Morin is 3 months younger). While I have no idea what Morin's speed and physicality are like, I'd like to hear the reasoning for the assertion that Atlanta would give up Morin for Kassian. And while we all want Kassian to turn into another Lucic, we have to remember that there are many more mid-first-round washouts than there are successes.

[Two or less]

I have to agree with both of these posts. Morin has 72 pts in 50 games (#11 in the OHL), while Kassian has 28 pts in 34 games. Also, they are the same age (actually Morin is 3 months younger). While I have no idea what Morin's speed and physicality are like, I'd like to hear the reasoning for the assertion that Atlanta would give up Morin for Kassian. And while we all want Kassian to turn into another Lucic, we have to remember that there are many more mid-first-round washouts than there are successes.

 

Kassian was injured earlier this year.... and played on a very bad Petes team.

 

It would have been very interesting to see what Kassian would have done with Windsor, as they are an elite team and will probably represent the OHL in the Memorial Cup...

[TomSmith]

I have to say that I love seeing someone speak out against the Kassian "he hits hard" love. I'm willing to give Darcy the benefit of the doubt since some of his more recent drafts look pretty good sa far, but I can't shake the feeling that it was a "please the fans" pick. Yes, I expect more than that from any NHL GM and scouting staff, but I still have a hard time shaking that thought.

I really believe that it might also have had something to do with all of Burke's truculence nonsense.

Look at how many of the fans that got roped into that crap coming out of Toronto.

We don't hear much about that any more.

[TomSmith]

Kassian was injured earlier this year.... and played on a very bad Petes team.

 

It would have been very interesting to see what Kassian would have done with Windsor, as they are an elite team and will probably represent the OHL in the Memorial Cup...

Yeah sure, now we need him to play for the very best teams to make a mark.

He's played 33 games and scored a grand total of 8 goals.

 

Maybe he can get in a race with Marcus Foligno to see who'll be the highest scoring Sabres prospect in the OHL.

[TomSmith]

No way of proving it, but i think you're very much wrong and over valuing Morin. He's had a great season, no one said he didn't. He's 18 years old/soon to be 19. Kassian made his OHL debut at age 17. Kassian 17 going on 18 was a point/per game scorer in the OHL, but his style of play was more then just a shooter. He checks, plays a 2-way game, plays by the boards, and is a grinder. Morin is more of a guy who goes down the ice, and gets into position to shoot. He's a sniper. A much less talented Brett Hull. Kassian is the more complete player and still a better prospect, despite being suspended for the reminder of the season.

Uh Kassian isn't 17 now is he?

 

The point I was making with Morin is that he played in the USA U18 program and when he was drafted it was harder to gauge him in comparison to canadian junior players.

 

Believe me if it was known at the time that he would play at this level in the OHL he wouldn't have been a 2nd rounder.

 

If you think Kassian is more of a complete player than Morin then...fill in the blank, I won't say it, I'll just say that that's ridiculous.

 

 

AS far as "He's much less talented that Brett Hull" well that's a non- statement if I've ever heard one.

Just how many players can you name that score goals on a pace with Brett Hull?

You might be right, if a player isn't equal to Brett Hall we'll be far better off taking a grinder.

[LabattBlue]

Where do you make the assumption that he'd be a 50 point player?

Or worse yet that he has any business playing as a top 6 forward on an NHL team?

 

Let me say it again, he hasn't even made a mark scoring wise in the OHL.

What magic is going take place when he gets to the NHL playing against far far better players?

First of all, I said 40-50 point player. Furthermore, I don't think the Sabres looked at his talent a year ago and decided to draft him in the top 15 picks to be on the 3rd or 4th line. So me assuming he has the potential to be in the top 6 is not that far fetched. He has had an injury/suspension plagued season and therefore it is hard to judge where his point totals would have been otherwise.

 

Bertuzzi scored 27 goals and 58 points in his 2nd year in juniors which are comparable to Kassian's numbers last year, which was his 2nd year in the OHL. Did that mean Bertuzzi would never score 20 at the NHL level or play in the top 6? Wrong!

 

I get it...you don't like the Kassian pick.

 

 

What is it with every newbie over the last few months who comes here like a bull in the china shop?? :blink:

[PASabreFan]

First of all, I said 40-50 point player. Furthermore, I don't think the Sabres looked at his talent a year ago and decided to draft him in the top 15 picks to be on the 3rd or 4th line. So me assuming he has the potential to be in the top 6 is not that far fetched. He has had an injury/suspension plagued season and therefore it is hard to judge where his point totals would have been otherwise.

 

Bertuzzi scored 27 goals and 58 points in his 2nd year in juniors which are comparable to Kassian's numbers last year which was his 2nd year in the OHL. Did that mean Bertuzzi would never score 20 at the NHL level or play in the top 6? Wrong!

 

I get it...you don't like the Kassian pick.

 

 

What is it with every newbie over the last few months who comes here like a bull in the china shop?? :blink:

Maybe they lurk and figure why not jump right in? Why should new posters be chastised for being exactly like the rest of us? It's always interesting to see how fresh blood is treated -- like the SabreSpace body is not recognizing it as the right type. Are we trying to keep our little board "all in the family"? Frankly, I'm tired of Uncle Ink making me reach into his pockets for change. There's never any in there! I want fresh meat!

[LabattBlue]

Maybe they lurk and figure why not jump right in? Why should new posters be chastised for being exactly like the rest of us? It's always interesting to see how fresh blood is treated -- like the SabreSpace body is not recognizing it as the right type. Are we trying to keep our little board "all in the family"? Frankly, I'm tired of Uncle Ink making me reach into his pockets for change. There's never any in there! I want fresh meat!

I guess it just rubs me the wrong way you grumpy old bastard. ;)

[TomSmith]

First of all, I said 40-50 point player. Furthermore, I don't think the Sabres looked at his talent a year ago and decided to draft him in the top 15 picks to be on the 3rd or 4th line. So me assuming he has the potential to be in the top 6 is not that far fetched. He has had an injury/suspension plagued season and therefore it is hard to judge where his point totals would have been otherwise.

 

Bertuzzi scored 27 goals and 58 points in his 2nd year in juniors which are comparable to Kassian's numbers last year, which was his 2nd year in the OHL. Did that mean Bertuzzi would never score 20 at the NHL level or play in the top 6? Wrong!

 

I get it...you don't like the Kassian pick.

 

What is it with every newbie over the last few months who comes here like a bull in the china shop?? :blink:

"First of all, I said 40-50 point player."

And that is what I said 50 points.

 

"I get it...you don't like the Kassian pick."

I get it you love the pick.

 

"Bertuzzi scored 27 goals and 58 points in his 2nd year in juniors which are comparable to Kassian's numbers last year, which was his 2nd year in the OHL. Did that mean Bertuzzi would never score 20 at the NHL level or play in the top 6? Wrong!"

 

Brad May scored 33 goals and 91 points in his second year in the OHL, which is better than Kassian, did that mean that Brad May would be a 20 goal, 40-50 point NHL player? Wrong!!!

[LabattBlue]

"First of all, I said 40-50 point player."

And that is what I said 50 points.

 

"I get it...you don't like the Kassian pick."

I get it you love the pick.

 

"Bertuzzi scored 27 goals and 58 points in his 2nd year in juniors which are comparable to Kassian's numbers last year, which was his 2nd year in the OHL. Did that mean Bertuzzi would never score 20 at the NHL level or play in the top 6? Wrong!"

 

Brad may scored 33 goals in his second year in the OHL, which is better than Kassian, did that mean that Brad May would be a 20 goal, 40-50 point NHL player? Wrong!!!

...and I can probably find a 1000 players who have put up better junior numbers than Morin who never amounted to anything at the NHL level. So what makes Morin a sure thing and Kassian a bust at the NHL level? Unless you are a relative of his, I don't understand this love affair you have with him.

 

If you like Morin so much and are now convinced that the Sabres cannot move forward without him, maybe you should consider becoming a Thrashers fan.

[TomSmith]

Maybe they lurk and figure why not jump right in? Why should new posters be chastised for being exactly like the rest of us? It's always interesting to see how fresh blood is treated -- like the SabreSpace body is not recognizing it as the right type. Are we trying to keep our little board "all in the family"? Frankly, I'm tired of Uncle Ink making me reach into his pockets for change. There's never any in there! I want fresh meat!

I get the impression that some people truly believe that a post count has something to do with the value or veracity of their opinion.

 

That stuff is nothing more than a tantrum.

[Two or less]

Uh Kassian isn't 17 now is he?

 

The point I was making with Morin is that he played in the USA U18 program and when he was drafted it was harder to gauge him in comparison to canadian junior players.

 

Believe me if it was known at the time that he would play at this level in the OHL he wouldn't have been a 2nd rounder.

 

If you think Kassian is more of a complete player than Morin then...fill in the blank, I won't say it, I'll just say that that's ridiculous.

 

 

AS far as "He's much less talented that Brett Hull" well that's a non- statement if I've ever heard one.

Just how many players can you name that score goals on a pace with Brett Hull?

You might be right, if a player isn't equal to Brett Hall we'll be far better off taking a grinder.

 

I'm not comparing Morin to Hull nor i ever said if he doesn't score as much, that he won't be good. I was just saying what his style is. He's a sniper. He does little besides score. If he doesn't score, he won't be in the NHL. Not the same case for Kassian. Kassian could be a very successful 15-20 goal scorer.

 

Kassian started this season as 18 years old. He's 19 now. He missed a lot of practice due to injury and some games, that's why he didn't make Team Canada for WJC. My point was, when he was 17/18 he was a point per game player in the OHL. Morin scored 0 points as a 17 year old because he wasn't there yet. The OHL is a league, where there is some real fantastic players, and some real bad quality players. Thus, the better players you have around you, the more chances you have to succeed.

 

John Tavares was struggling (to his standards) on a poor Oshawa team, then got traded to London where he was a monster.... 50pt in 24 games. Does it mean he needs to be on good teams to play good? No, but it's common sense, especially at a low level like juniors where your linemates may be much lower quality then you.

 

And yes, i still do think Kassian is the more complete player and better future potential then Morin.... AND no way Atlanta would reject a 1st round pick + Kassian for Morin.

[LabattBlue]

Maybe they lurk and figure why not jump right in? Why should new posters be chastised for being exactly like the rest of us? It's always interesting to see how fresh blood is treated -- like the SabreSpace body is not recognizing it as the right type. Are we trying to keep our little board "all in the family"? Frankly, I'm tired of Uncle Ink making me reach into his pockets for change. There's never any in there! I want fresh meat!

One other thing and its a standing offer... Feel free any day to contact SDS to request that you take my place as a mod.

 

If not, quit your bitching about how the board is moderated. <_<

[nfreeman]

I get the impression that some people truly believe that a post count has something to do with the value or veracity of their opinion.

 

That's stuff is nothing more than a tantrum.

I think any backlash that you or any other new poster may see (ie the "bull in a china shop" point) relates more to the degree of respectfulness and civility in the tone of the new person's posts than to the fact that the new person disagrees with someone with a higher post count.

[TomSmith]

...and I can probably find a 1000 players who have put up better junior numbers than Morin who never amounted to anything at the NHL level. So what makes Morin a sure thing and Kassian a bust at the NHL level? Unless you are a relative of his, I don't understand this love affair you have with him.

 

If you like Morin so much and are now convinced that the Sabres cannot move forward without him, maybe you should consider becoming a Thrashers fan.

Love affair?

I'm not the one getting all wound up and emotional...you are.

 

I never mentioned the player until I was ASKED who I wanted the Sabres to pick in Kassian's place.

I used him as just one example.

 

I could have named others, the rest of this is just me replying to the emotional backlash from answering the question.

 

The only way I would have avoided this crying jag is to say...."no one, you people are right Kassian was the only choice unless there was a bigger grinder on the board."

 

Is Zack kassian your brother?

[TomSmith]

I think any backlash that you or any other new poster may see (ie the "bull in a china shop" point) relates more to the degree of respectfulness and civility in the tone of the new person's posts than to the fact that the new person disagrees with someone with a higher post count.

That's another thing they strongly believe in, a big post count means that they aren't required to be civil.

They insist on it from others, but they don't feel an obligation to that standard on their own part.