Brind'Amour a good fit for Buffalo?

[SwampD]

I'm just citing facts, since so many on the board insist on them.

 

The "average" attendance figure cant go down. It's an average of all games played to date, incl the 14 game losing streak and beyond. Will they finish the season with 14k plus? Unlikely, but that's where it is now.

 

It should be apparent to anyone that the fan base in BUF is stronger. It should be with 40 yrs on the ice in a cold weather city. The point of my post was to show that it's ignorant to make derogatory statements about a team's fan base without some facts to back it up. I provided the facts that shows that CAR fans are not fair weather and they're not far and few between.

 

 

So when the Sabres were hurting for the two seasons during bankruptcy, they didn't announce attendance figures far above the fannies in the seats or the comps they gave away? C'mon. That's weak. If your rule applies, then ALL pro sports attendance figures are lies. If that's the case, then why even debate who has a good fan base? No one knows for sure what the true numbers are, so we're all talking out of our rear ends (Sabres incl).

 

As far as how the Sabres handle Leafs fans, that's bull too. I lived there. I was a STH. BUF has no clue how to handle those slobs from Canada. They made it as bad as a Bills game. Drunk, foul-mouthed, and fall-down stupid. I gave most of my Leafs tickets away. I couldn't take my wife or kids there, without getting into an argument with some dumb Canadian throwing F-bombs all over.

I think we need to start practicing what we preach, doncha think?

[Claude_Verret]

As far as how the Sabres handle Leafs fans, that's bull too. I lived there. I was a STH. BUF has no clue how to handle those slobs from Canada. They made it as bad as a Bills game. Drunk, foul-mouthed, and fall-down stupid. I gave most of my Leafs tickets away. I couldn't take my wife or kids there, without getting into an argument with some dumb Canadian throwing F-bombs all over.

 

I'm talking more about how the fans and organization respond to having a large proportion of opposing fans in attendance. Sabres fans know that there will be a lot of loud mouthed, drunk Leaf fans there and while I'm sure most don't like it, I don't see a lot of whining and crying about it either. I also don't see Leaf fans being handed fan behavior cards when entering HSBC arena, nor do I see Leaf fans and the city of Toronto being routinely disparaged on the scorebooard during games. The Canes organization is bush league at best when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[spndnchz]

I think we need to start practicing what we preach, doncha think?

 

I think he has some facts to back up his argument. Tossing insults around at games can be fun, as long as the two sides don't take it too personally and get into fist fights about it, especially when there are kids around.

[korab rules]

Valid point. Familiarity breeds contempt. If I wasn't a Bills fan, I'd loathe them.

 

 

I am a Bills fan, but still loathe them.

[weehawk]

There's no whining and crying about them because of one thing; money. 20% of HSBC (and the Ralph) is filled with Canadians. If they started getting too much flak, they might decide not to come. Then BUF has no team. WNY'ers cannot fill the gap left by the Canadians. The Canadians have WNY'ers by the nads.

 

Dont get too high and mighty about Buffalo sports fans, when 20% in attendance are not even from the same country. Without the Canadians backing them up, the area would not have either the Bills or the Sabres. The local population and economy simply cant support them without Canadian customers.

 

We're all transplants down here. It's not uncommon to see half the arena filled with fans wearing opposition jerseys. Know why that is? Because there's jobs here. That does not mean we're a weak fan base. It means that people are here because they need to be here, not necessarily because they want to be here. I support the Canes because I live here now. I support the Sabres, because that's where I was born and raised. Oh, and I also support the Sharks because I lived in SJ for 18 yrs.

 

Stop breathing the air from the nuke plant and the county dump and get over yourself.

 

 

I'm talking more about how the fans and organization respond to having a large proportion of opposing fans in attendance. Sabres fans know that there will be a lot of loud mouthed, drunk Leaf fans there and while I'm sure most don't like it, I don't see a lot of whining and crying about it either. I also don't see Leaf fans being handed fan behavior cards when entering HSBC arena, nor do I see Leaf fans and the city of Toronto being routinely disparaged on the scorebooard during games. The Canes organization is bush league at best when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[SwampD]

I'm just citing facts, since so many on the board insist on them.

 

The "average" attendance figure cant go down. It's an average of all games played to date, incl the 14 game losing streak and beyond. Will they finish the season with 14k plus? Unlikely, but that's where it is now.

 

It should be apparent to anyone that the fan base in BUF is stronger. It should be with 40 yrs on the ice in a cold weather city. The point of my post was to show that it's ignorant to make derogatory statements about a team's fan base without some facts to back it up. I provided the facts that shows that CAR fans are not fair weather and they're not far and few between.

:oops: yep. I misread the chart before. And you are right, that average is pretty darn good for a really bad team.

 

One fact I do know to be true is that I've never heard one fanbase complain about the actions of other fanbases (not just the Sabres') more than the Hurricanes' fanbase. That might be a reason for some of the ire aimed at them.

[shrader]

I can never understand the point of the argument that the Buffalo teams need canadians to survive. Thanks captain obvious. You can see Canada from the arena. Of course they're a vital part of the market. What's next, the teams in Minneapolis need the people of St. Paul to survive?

[wjag]

I am a Bills fan, but still loathe them.

That's because they are "unwatchable" and have been for a decade.

[carpandean]

There's no whining and crying about them because of one thing; money. 20% of HSBC (and the Ralph) is filled with Canadians. If they started getting too much flak, they might decide not to come. Then BUF has no team. WNY'ers cannot fill the gap left by the Canadians. The Canadians have WNY'ers by the nads.

 

Dont get too high and mighty about Buffalo sports fans, when 20% in attendance are not even from the same country. Without the Canadians backing them up, the area would not have either the Bills or the Sabres. The local population and economy simply cant support them without Canadian customers.

What % do you think are from Rochester? You can get to Canada from Buffalo faster than you can get to Rochester. As Shrader pointed out, parts of Canada are the local market, in the same sense that Rochester is part of it. The complaint isn't about Canadians, in general; it's about fans of Canadian team (Leafs, Canadiens, Senators) invading during the Sabres' games against them.

[Taro T]

I can never understand the point of the argument that the Buffalo teams need canadians to survive. Thanks captain obvious. You can see Canada from the arena. Of course they're a vital part of the market. What's next, the teams in Minneapolis need the people of St. Paul to survive?

But that's different, that's an entirely different country. :doh:

 

That's always been a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. Buffalo nevers gets to include the million or so Canucks living on the eastern end of the NP as part of its market, but Philly counts Camden and Delaware; St. Louis counts western Illinois; Kansas City counts eastern Kansas; Cincy counts Covington, etc. etc.

 

It's not like you're not going to find a few hundred Ontario plates in the Galleria parking lot, a few dozen NY plates outside of the Sundowner, or a traffic jam full of underage Yanks and legal Canucks heading into the US at 1AM and full of legal Canucks heading into Canada at 4AM on a Saturday.

[SwampD]

But that's different, that's an entirely different country. :doh:

 

That's always been a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. Buffalo nevers gets to include the million or so Canucks living on the eastern end of the NP as part of its market, but Philly counts Camden and Delaware; St. Louis counts western Illinois; Kansas City counts eastern Kansas; Cincy counts Covington, etc. etc.

 

It's not like you're not going to find a few hundred Ontario plates in the Galleria parking lot, a few dozen NY plates outside of the Sundowner, or a traffic jam full of underage Yanks and legal Canucks heading into the US at 1AM and full of legal Canucks heading into Canada at 4AM on a Saturday.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Or better yet, for the sake of this argument, you can count the people of Raleigh, but not Durham.

[Taro T]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Or better yet, for the sake of this argument, you can count the people of Raleigh, but not Durham.

:lol:

[Two or less]

I can never understand the point of the argument that the Buffalo teams need canadians to survive. Thanks captain obvious. You can see Canada from the arena. Of course they're a vital part of the market. What's next, the teams in Minneapolis need the people of St. Paul to survive?

 

Bingo, thank you, for saying it. That argument is maybe one of the worst and not surprised at all a guy from Carolina makes it. The true fanbase of any team needs to be a 60 mile radius around the home arena. If you draw up a circle with 60miles radius, you'll be in Canada. I actually have a few friends who are living in Southern Ontario (Oakville and Missisuaga) and are massive Sabres fans. They don't get games on television but they go to many games. They grew up as Sabres fans and now in a strict Leafs market, still are. I have also met several others from forums when i bought tickets for sold out games. Very nice people. I bought tickets to a sold out playoff game once, and a fan from Southern Ontario sold me his tickets like the day prior because something had come up. I told him i'd go to Canada and pick them up. After we exchanged numbers, he asked, where am i coming from and i told him Rochester. The guy was so nice, he felt bad for my long drive and said he would meet me at HSBC Arena. He had to drive like 30-40 minutes out of his way. Canadian fans are important to the Sabres and it's not something the Sabres should be ashamed of.

 

As far as his comment about rude Sabres fans in Raliegh, i was there for game 5 and i didn't think it was as bad as they said it was. The problem was, Carolina fans viewed the series differently then Buffalo fans did. For them, it was just a game in a big moment of the ECF. For Sabres fans, this was an event, this was a show. I met and saw so many fans on rest stops getting gas, wearing jerseys and chanting in a gas station... and the tailgates were massive events. I got up from my seat many times during the game to go to the bathroom and buy more beer and a butch looking dude got really upset. I didn't break the rules, i left during TV timeouts so i didn't miss much and didn't make people stand during the play. The guy got in my face, called me a drunk, immature, and some other things. Of course i told the guy off. I looked like the bad one and had a talking with security.

 

I also saw a girl wearing Sabres gear, cheer in the hallways, and a Canes fan telling her to shut up and then spilled some beer on her. Obviously, the males she was with stood in and grabbed the guy.

 

What i'm saying, it's a sporting event. It was much bigger for Sabres fans then it was for Canes fans. There was some bad apples by our fanbase but also a lot of morons on their fan base. I just don't think their fans understood how big this really was.

[Eleven]

As far as the BUF/CAR comparison goes...

 

I know there are some folks here who live in or near Washington. When I lived there--and I lived in the city, not in the 'burbs,--the Caps were maybe the sixth most relevant team in town ('Skins, Orioles, Bullets/Wiz, Georgetown basketball, DC United, all came first, in roughly that order). The Post seldom gave the Caps any real attention, and even during their run to the finals, it was easier to get tickets than it was to give them away during the first two rounds (yes, you read that correctly).

 

Shortly after that, the Caps picked up one of the biggest names in the league (Jagr), still had one of the best goaltenders (Kolzig), and attendance got worse.

 

Crowds at Caps games always were 50% opposing team, 50% home team, as long as the Caps were playing a team from the northeastern US or the Great Lakes. (Or Pittsburgh, which I guess is not in either category.) Tons of Rust Belters there; tons of people from big population centers like Filly, NYC, LI, NJ, and Boston, and lots of people who can easily travel to DC from those areas.

 

Now, I see all these "Caps Fan for Life!" types on TV, and I just snicker at them. They remind me of all the "Kings Fan for Life!" types in 1993.

 

Washington, because it is Washington, is full of people from elsewhere. The native Washingtonian who lives in the District is a rare beast, but even in Maryland and Virginia, a lot of people are transplants. I know more people from Washington who live in Buffalo, than I did when I lived there.

 

I wonder if the same is true with Carolina. I wonder how many came out of the woodwork for the two runs to the finals, and how many really attach themselves to the team. But while the Raleigh area certainly draws from around the country, I doubt it draws the way DC does. That team probably does have some real, if new, fans. We'll see in a few years.

 

On the other hand, a lot of those fans come from Durham, Greensboro, and other towns/villages/plantations in the macadam-foot state, so is it really fair to criticize the Sabres from drawing fans that live two miles away, but in Canada?

 

And the way the Carolina fans treated Buffalonians, and the way the Carolina press treated Buffalonians, was downright .

[Claude_Verret]

There's no whining and crying about them because of one thing; money. 20% of HSBC (and the Ralph) is filled with Canadians. If they started getting too much flak, they might decide not to come. Then BUF has no team. WNY'ers cannot fill the gap left by the Canadians. The Canadians have WNY'ers by the nads.

 

Dont get too high and mighty about Buffalo sports fans, when 20% in attendance are not even from the same country. Without the Canadians backing them up, the area would not have either the Bills or the Sabres. The local population and economy simply cant support them without Canadian customers.

 

We're all transplants down here. It's not uncommon to see half the arena filled with fans wearing opposition jerseys. Know why that is? Because there's jobs here. That does not mean we're a weak fan base. It means that people are here because they need to be here, not necessarily because they want to be here. I support the Canes because I live here now. I support the Sabres, because that's where I was born and raised. Oh, and I also support the Sharks because I lived in SJ for 18 yrs.

 

Stop breathing the air from the nuke plant and the county dump and get over yourself.

 

And there you have it folks. We have here a genuine Canes fan and team swapping !

[Eleven]

And there you have it folks. We have here a genuine Canes fan and team swapping !

 

Err, sarcasm, right?

[Claude_Verret]

Err, sarcasm, right?

 

Not at all!

[Eleven]

Not at all!

 

I don't think weehawk's a traitor. It's cool if he wants to support the team where he lives. As long as he pulls for the Sabres when their interests conflict.

 

And even if he doesn't, even if he's a casual Sabres fan and more of a Canes fan, that's ok too. Not everyone on this board has to be a diehard, right?

[Realist]

CAR is the worst team in hockey and yet has averaged 14,410 over 15 games. Not bad for a team with "lousy" fans.

 

In 2003, CAR had better attendance than BUF.

 

I'm Blue & Gold all the way, but there's nothing wrong with CAR fans. In fact, the group that came down here from Buffalo for the ECF acted like such louts, that Buffalo fans will forever be known down here as total jerk-offs. Time to get over the sour grapes. All kinds of "undeserving" teams have raised the Cup. Time for Buffalo to spend some money and buy a Cup. Since that's all you think there is to it.

I moved down here to Raleigh back in '97 the same year the Whalers announced they were moving to Raleigh. I was very excited that the NHL was going to be in town and I could still see the Sabres, but I also became a 'Canes fan. I was there opening night against Pittsburgh in Greensboro, I went to several games each year and rooted for the 'Canes except when they played the Sabres.

 

Then came game 5 of the ECF. Now, I'm not the type of fan to get loud at a game. I sit in my seat cheer when good things happen and so forth, I don't swear or get in the faces of opposing fans, actually I was talking with the canes fan sitting next to me for the better part of the game. There were Carolina fans sitting behind us who would get in our faces everytime something bad happened to Buffalo, a Carolina goal, Buffalo penalty, big hit by a Hurricane, whatever. Even the guy sitting next to me told them to calm down, to no avail.

 

Well the canes scored in OT to win and one of the Hurricanes sitting behind me yelled at me "How the #%^$#! do you like that!" and dumped what was left of his beer on me. I stood up and yelled at him and in the euphoria of the canes victory, security grabs me and my friends and escorts us out of the building.

 

You can complain all you want about Sabres fans there, but that is not what I saw. A whole bunch of 'Canes fans in our section were absolutely relentless the entire game and every time I went to the concession stand or bathroom I put up with abuse without saying a thing to the canes fans. If you ask me the fans didn't like how loud the Sabres fans were and got all the crap for it in the media.

 

Since that day, I hated the Hurricanes and when I watch them now, I always hope for a loss unless a win by them would help out the Sabres.

[shrader]

That makes me far more concerned about their wasting of alcohol as opposed to their hatred of Buffalo fans.

[Claude_Verret]

I don't think weehawk's a traitor. It's cool if he wants to support the team where he lives. As long as he pulls for the Sabres when their interests conflict.

 

And even if he doesn't, even if he's a casual Sabres fan and more of a Canes fan, that's ok too. Not everyone on this board has to be a diehard, right?

 

He's certainly free to practice his hockey fanhood however he chooses. I'm just pointing out that he is the prototypical canes "fan". One who is a fan of the Canes until the Pens/Rangers/Red Wings/Bruins/Flyers etc. come to town or if one's hometown team isn't performing so well that particular year. In my view that makes for a weak fan base and is the very definition of fair weather.

[PASabreFan]

I've been to Pittsburgh and Washington to see Sabres games. Neither fan base or setting was particularly intimidating, but I still went in unmarked and didn't openly cheer. There's just something about out of town fans who come in wearing big merchandise and showing off their big mouths. I don't want to sit near them -- and I'm not going to be one of them. My approach solves almost 100% of the problems. Yes, I will take my medicine for just admitting I went to a game involving the Sabres and didn't "make some noise."

[PASabreFan]

And it's no coincidence that 99% of these fan horror stories involve beer. Man, if you can't go to a hockey game without getting tanked, there's something really wrong. Drinking a beer, no problem. The folks who miss half the game going to get their beers...

[wonderbread]

I've been to Pittsburgh and Washington to see Sabres games. Neither fan base or setting was particularly intimidating, but I still went in unmarked and didn't openly cheer. There's just something about out of town fans who come in wearing big merchandise and showing off their big mouths. I don't want to sit near them -- and I'm not going to be one of them. My approach solves almost 100% of the problems. Yes, I will take my medicine for just admitting I went to a game involving the Sabres and didn't "make some noise."

 

 

and you didn't even let me know. Dudly and I would had you out past your bedtime.

[weehawk]

Boy, you just refuse to understand that this area (and many others) are full of transplants. It's possible in the real world to cheer for more than one team. In your bizarro world, you can only love one team forever and always.

 

I was there in front of the Aud in 1971 in my sleeping bag waiting to get any ticket I could. Where were you in '71? When the Sabres come here, I proudly wear my Sabres jersey. For every other game, I'm a Canes fan. If it's the Sabres and the Canes in the ECF again, I'll be rooting for the Sabres. It's not about who's doing well at the time and it does not make me or or anyone else in the area a fair weather fan if we happen to have two home teams that we root for. Sounds like you're not too happy here in NC with the way you bash the local hockey fans.

 

 

 

He's certainly free to practice his hockey fanhood however he chooses. I'm just pointing out that he is the prototypical canes "fan". One who is a fan of the Canes until the Pens/Rangers/Red Wings/Bruins/Flyers etc. come to town or if one's hometown team isn't performing so well that particular year. In my view that makes for a weak fan base and is the very definition of fair weather.