sjb012 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Out of shape....relatively. Compared to any of us he looks like a cast member of 300. When Thomas takes a 45 second shift his face looks like that of a man who just sprinted the Boston Marathon. The guy is always fighting the chub, you can tell. He needs to put in way more work than he does (and I have no idea what that is) on conditioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 The guy is always fighting the chub, you can tell. I imagine skating with a second stick is more difficult. Might make between the legs moves easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Vanek is not really a multi-dimensional player (relatively speaking)....... all he does well is score goals. So when he's in a slump it really stands out. But when he does score he's one of the best in the league. I'm kinda glad he's slumping but still seeing the team be successful. That means when he gets back on track, it means we'll be that much better. I think the team learned last year not to rely on one player to score all your goals whether or not Vanek is hot or cold. Roy's ice time wasn't cut down when he wasn't scoring goals because he still added to the game. He was causing turnovers, making plays and setting up other goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 He was more efficient at scoring goals than Alex Freaking Ovechkin last season. What the hell do you want? :) I want him to be good THIS season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Nation Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I heard Lindy is sitting Thomas because he slept with Mrs. Ruff. Per Eklund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I want him to be good THIS season. According to my calculations, the efficiency rating isn't even close this year. Ovechkin is blowing away even his own pace from last year. But Vanek, despite the conventional wisdom he's been slumping, still is on pace for a goal total around 32. It's not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 According to my calculations, the efficiency rating isn't even close this year. Ovechkin is blowing away even his own pace from last year. But Vanek, despite the conventional wisdom he's been slumping, still is on pace for a goal total around 32. It's not terrible. For a 7 mil a year player who doesn't contribute much of anything else...a 32 goal season would be terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Vanek needs to produce 40 goals a year to be worth it. I liked his work ethic over the weekend (Calgary and Philly games), his back checking in particular. However, he got a little stick happy and kept getting slashing penalties. He'll have to work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I heard Lindy is sitting Thomas because he slept with Mrs. Ruff. Per Eklund. wonder if she had her teeth in or out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheReaper Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Vanek has several things not going his way right now. Ice time has to be one of the biggest factors. I also think he wants time on the PK. I never seen him play better than he did during the first 20 games last year. And that was while he had PK time. Maybe that is a bigger factor than we think. He is also not taking shots, or simply passing on chances to shoot. I dont care how well hes playing, with that shot i expect at least 4 a night. 1 or 2 shots a game is not good enough. Van is not Ovechkin. But hell, Ovie gets 6 to 10 shots on most nights. Is it too much to want at least 4 out of Van? He also needs to stop looking for the perfect play. He had a golden moment to label a shot past Emery on saturday, and instead, he elected to slide it toward Stafford and into a Philly stick. Just shoot the damn thing. Pommer would of, and shot it wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Vanek has several things not going his way right now. Ice time has to be one of the biggest factors. I also think he wants time on the PK. I never seen him play better than he did during the first 20 games last year. And that was while he had PK time. Maybe that is a bigger factor than we think. He is also not taking shots, or simply passing on chances to shoot. I dont care how well hes playing, with that shot i expect at least 4 a night. 1 or 2 shots a game is not good enough. Van is not Ovechkin. But hell, Ovie gets 6 to 10 shots on most nights. Is it too much to want at least 4 out of Van? He also needs to stop looking for the perfect play. He had a golden moment to label a shot past Emery on saturday, and instead, he elected to slide it toward Stafford and into a Philly stick. Just shoot the damn thing. Pommer would of, and shot it wide. Yup. As bad as it sounds, Vanek needs to be a bit selfish when it comes to shooting the puck. Once that puck hits his stick, he should be releasing it half a second later towards the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbochan Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Vanek has several things not going his way right now. Ice time has to be one of the biggest factors. I also think he wants time on the PK. I never seen him play better than he did during the first 20 games last year. And that was while he had PK time. Maybe that is a bigger factor than we think... But what has he done to earn it? Nothing so far this season. He's been a lazy floater out there, and even floating, he looks absolutely gassed at the end of a shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 According to my calculations, the efficiency rating isn't even close this year. Ovechkin is blowing away even his own pace from last year. But Vanek, despite the conventional wisdom he's been slumping, still is on pace for a goal total around 32. It's not terrible. I'd be curious to see what Vanek's numbers were at this point last year. He had that ridiculously fast start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'd be curious to see what Vanek's numbers were at this point last year. He had that ridiculously fast start. Goals: Points: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Goals: Points: And if I'm reading old man PA correctly, he's still talking about goals per ice time. Ice time's not factored in there, but it really is a no brainer to guess that Vanek's efficiency at this point last year was through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 And if I'm reading old man PA correctly, he's still talking about goals per ice time. Ice time's not factored in there, but it really is a no brainer to guess that Vanek's efficiency at this point last year was through the roof. Probably, but remember his ice time to this point last season was a lot higher -- he was routinely in the 18-21 minute range. Edit: And of course a lot of that ice time difference can be attributed to penalty killing. Interesting, isn't it, that penalty killing time could be correlated to goal-scoring proficiency. It may be a bit of an oversimplification, but Vanek's production dropped off as his penalty killing time did. It's the very heart of the Vanek story, IMHO. Get this guy mentally involved in all three zones, in all three periods, and he's a much better player. Tell him he's a tip-in power play specialist, and you can see what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Probably, but remember his ice time to this point last season was a lot higher -- he was routinely in the 18-21 minute range. Edit: And of course a lot of that ice time difference can be attributed to penalty killing. Interesting, isn't it, that penalty killing time could be correlated to goal-scoring proficiency. It may be a bit of an oversimplification, but Vanek's production dropped off as his penalty killing time did. It's the very heart of the Vanek story, IMHO. Get this guy mentally involved in all three zones, in all three periods, and he's a much better player. Tell him he's a tip-in power play specialist, and you can see what you get. I would agree, paying 7. mill for what is essentially a Dave Andreychuk clone in front of the net is just plain foolish, especially when this clone is one of the most natural finishers the franchise has ever seen, and has the hands to go with it. That said, it's hard to argue with the current standings, and what do I know anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Diego Sabres Fan Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Vanek is a streaky scorer,when he gets hot they go in from everywhere,even with Vanek's cold streak, the Team is still winning, so who cares about individual stats. Who ever thought we would be 12-4-1 after the first 17 games? I don't think I see any hands up in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Probably, but remember his ice time to this point last season was a lot higher -- he was routinely in the 18-21 minute range. Edit: And of course a lot of that ice time difference can be attributed to penalty killing. Interesting, isn't it, that penalty killing time could be correlated to goal-scoring proficiency. It may be a bit of an oversimplification, but Vanek's production dropped off as his penalty killing time did. It's the very heart of the Vanek story, IMHO. Get this guy mentally involved in all three zones, in all three periods, and he's a much better player. Tell him he's a tip-in power play specialist, and you can see what you get. We're right back at the chicken vs. the egg thing you've been throwing out there. Did his drop in PK time lead to his play tailing off or did his play tail off first? I'm shady on the details last year thanks to so many scheduling conflicts with games, so I don't have the answer to that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 We're right back at the chicken vs. the egg thing you've been throwing out there. Did his drop in PK time lead to his play tailing off or did his play tail off first? I'm shady on the details last year thanks to so many scheduling conflicts with games, so I don't have the answer to that one. I'm pretty sure you know he scored 24 goals in the first 30 games, and struggled to end up with 40 -- the lost time to injury notwithstanding. The scoring slump started well before the injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JujuFish Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Just shoot the damn thing. Pommer would of, and shot it wide. Like nails on a chalkboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm pretty sure you know he scored 24 goals in the first 30 games, and struggled to end up with 40 -- the lost time to injury notwithstanding. The scoring slump started well before the injury. But how did his ice time shape up over that period? You've made your stance very clear on this, that Ruff is holding him back. So did he start to get less ice time before his scoring dropped off? Or did his scoring drop off, then he got less ice time? One of those supports your views on Ruff, the other doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 But how did his ice time shape up over that period? You've made your stance very clear on this, that Ruff is holding him back. So did he start to get less ice time before his scoring dropped off? Or did his scoring drop off, then he got less ice time? One of those supports your views on Ruff, the other doesn't. For starters, he scored 24 goals in his first 30 games, averaging a little less than 19 minutes a game. He scored eight goals in the next 23 games leading up to the injury in Ottawa. And he scored eight goals in 19 games upon returning. In the 42 games after getting his 24th goal (throwing out the Ottawa game in which he skated only three minutes and change), he averaged about 16 and a half minutes. (The ice time after coming back from injury definitely pull down the numbers, but his ice time had been dropping before the injury.) There's an apparent turning point that may or may not be telling. He scored twice in NJ in Game 30 to get to 24, skating 19:48. The next game he got 14:42, and that kicked off his slump. Looking at the ice times before and after that game is interesting, but it's one of those situations where maybe you see what you want to see. Still, the broad outline above is what it is. I'd like to see if he scored more in games where he got shorthanded ice time, but you have to go game by game to see the shorthanded ice time. Tedious is not strong enough a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 For starters, he scored 24 goals in his first 30 games, averaging a little less than 19 minutes a game. He scored eight goals in the next 23 games leading up to the injury in Ottawa. And he scored eight goals in 19 games upon returning. In the 42 games after getting his 24th goal (throwing out the Ottawa game in which he skated only three minutes and change), he averaged about 16 and a half minutes. (The ice time after coming back from injury definitely pull down the numbers, but his ice time had been dropping before the injury.) There's an apparent turning point that may or may not be telling. He scored twice in NJ in Game 30 to get to 24, skating 19:48. The next game he got 14:42, and that kicked off his slump. Looking at the ice times before and after that game is interesting, but it's one of those situations where maybe you see what you want to see. Still, the broad outline above is what it is. I'd like to see if he scored more in games where he got shorthanded ice time, but you have to go game by game to see the shorthanded ice time. Tedious is not strong enough a word. Hell, I'd take it a step further and say that you'd probably have to watch the games and see why his ice time may have went down. Did he block a shot with his foot? Did he take a hard cross check to the lower back while parking in front of the net? The boxscores can paint a very different picture than those little details that don't wind up in the records. Yeah, I think there's something there, but I really don't have a clue exactly what it is. Hey, me not having a clue. There's something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Like nails on a chalkboard. I hear you.. *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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