FogBat Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I'd say, especially considering it came from the same poster in a 93 minute span. I guess that's Taro T for you. In retrospect, I think he went a little over the top by repeatedly making reference to Donner's corpulence, and that's why Donner didn't respond to Taro T directly about it. I did find it interesting to get on here and have a brush with greatness (no pun intended, Steve). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Steve, You chose to sign for garbage plates. Taro T, sounds like you know a thing or two about Nick Tahou's. :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Steve, you sure do have a way of responding to your critics. That said, you failed Sibelius' motto: "Pay no attention to what the critics say. No one has ever put up a statue to a critic." This is the first time I've seen you on here. Depending on how you can take the heat in here in the middle of January, maybe not the last. As for brutal and childish, we may have our quirks, but childish and puerile aren't two of them. Brutal is more like the LA Kings from last season. At least you're not as much of a jacka$$ like a former user we ran out of here on his first day known as - I kid you not - The Brain. He ruffled way too many feathers on the first day without trying to fit it like he was Einstein on physics. As for FNL, that's a new one to me. I prefer to stick to SM-liiga. Makes more sense to me instead of trying to Americanize something. He's been here before, and as soon as we stop discussing the Amerks he'll be gone. I haven't seen him contribute in any thread other than the ones regarding the breakup of the Amerks-Sabres affiliation. His previous stops were very "Brain-esque," FWIW. I really thought we'd seen the last of him when the Portland agreement was signed and the season got closer, but no dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Curious about the sad face. Vanek-Man said: No signings - Florida has signed more players for the Amerks than Buffalo has for Portland. No hype - There's never hype for the Amerks in early August. If there is hype, it would be in September when training camp starts. No nothing - Not true, as there have been signings. The team has a town hall meeting planned later on so ownership can interact with the fans. How many and who have they signed? Off the top of my head I think the Sabres have signed at least four for Portland: Colin Murphy and Colton Fretter; Mathieu Darche; and Tyler Bouck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yeah, you're right. The Amerks had a few hundred grand just sitting around to be spent. Hershey and Chicago also get vets from Washington and Atlanta. They just sign some of their own because they can afford it. You agreed that the Amerks got a higher lower affiliation payment from to the Sabres than the standard one. That means that they had more MONEY than they would have with a standard agreement. We're not going too fast for you, are we? Having more money, a reasonable person would assume they'd use some of that to put a better product on the ice rather than a few thousand extra calories in the majority owner's diet. That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that the Cats were also paying allowing the Amerks to keep money. You know, by having the money from 2 affilations, a reasonable person would assume that "they can afford it". Of course, with Donner being undercapitalized, he wouldn't spend the money on players as it appears he already had the money spent before it even hit his pocket. But somehow, his being undercapitalized is the Sabres fault. :huh: I still don't understand that "logic" Steve. Look, I hope the new owner ends up being a good one, but his having made his fortune selling untaxed cigarettes doesn't give me a lot of reason to believe that he is anything but a shady operator. Donner still having his fat fingers in the mix doesn't instill confidence either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Having more money, a reasonable person would assume they'd use some of that to put a better product on the ice rather than a few thousand extra calories in the majority owner's diet. Donner still having his fat fingers in the mix doesn't instill confidence either. You're on fire lately. I like it. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Taro T, sounds like you know a thing or two about Nick Tahou's. :sick: I have personally shared 2 dining experiences at Tahoes with Taro...er...Dave and have witnessed a lunch time meal at Wendy's but Dave does seem to burn off the calories a tad more than sausage fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 How many and who have they signed? Off the top of my head I think the Sabres have signed at least four for Portland: Colin Murphy and Colton Fretter; Mathieu Darche; and Tyler Bouck. I counted 5 or 6 on the TSN transactions page. But for both teams, that doesn't count any of the young guys that were signed, the Butlers or Gerbes, or the guys signed right out of college before last season ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 You agreed that the Amerks got a higher affiliation payment from the Sabres than the standard one. That means that they had more MONEY than they would have with a standard agreement. We're not going too fast for you, are we? Having more money, a reasonable person would assume they'd use some of that to put a better product on the ice rather than a few thousand extra calories in the majority owner's diet. That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that the Cats were also paying the Amerks money. You know, by having the money from 2 affilations, a reasonable person would assume that "they can afford it". Logic doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Just because a discount is given, doesn't mean the Amerks had money laying around to spend. If Buffalo charged the standard affiliation rate, the Amerks would have had to pay it since they don't have a choice. So they just would have been a little more in debt. Everyone criticizes Donner for being a bad businessman, but spending 300-400K on vets when they don't have that money is the definition of a bad business decision. The difference between signing their own vets and paying a standard affiliation rate would have been huge. Much more expensive to sign their own veterans. And for the last time, no one was "paying the Amerks money". Bmwolf21 - Including the College free agents... Buffalo - Derek Whitmore, Mike Kostka, Matthieu Darche, Colton Fretter, Colin Murphy, Tyler Bouck Florida - Jason Garrison, Andrew Sweetland, Rory Fitzpatrick, Steve MacIntyre, James DeLory, Chris Beckford-Tseu, Janis Sprukts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Logic doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Just because a discount is given, doesn't mean the Amerks had money laying around to spend. If Buffalo charged the standard affiliation rate, the Amerks would have had to pay it since they don't have a choice. So they just would have been a little more in debt. Everyone criticizes Donner for being a bad businessman, but spending 300-400K on vets when they don't have that money is the definition of a bad business decision. The difference between signing their own vets and paying a standard affiliation rate would have been huge. Much more expensive to sign their own veterans. And for the last time, no one was "paying the Amerks money". Bmwolf21 - Including the College free agents... Buffalo - Derek Whitmore, Mike Kostka, Matthieu Darche, Colton Fretter, Colin Murphy, Tyler Bouck Florida - Jason Garrison, Andrew Sweetland, Rory Fitzpatrick, Steve MacIntyre, James DeLory, Chris Beckford-Tseu, Janis Sprukts. You are correct that the Sabres didn't pay the Amerks. You are incorrect when stating that the difference between signing a vet or 2 vs having a standard affiliation rate would have been huge. It would have been pretty much a wash, as the Amerks owner ended up w/ about $200k extra in his oversized trousers in the affiliation agreement w/ Buffalo over what he'd have had under a standard affiliation rate and he also got to keep an extra ~$200k from his deal w/ the Cats and bringing in the vets you wanted would have cost him about $400k. So that would have been a wash. There ended up a huge difference between what Donner did and what he should have done; but paying standard rate for players or paying discount rate for players and bringing in AHL vets would not have resulted in significant differences. You cry that the Amerks didn't have the money to bring in any vets. That was not the Sabres fault. That was the fault of Donner being undercapitalized. The Sabres and Panthers allowed the Amerks to hold onto an additional $400k. You cry that Jabba the Donner would have been a bad business man for spending money he SHOULD have spent; Golisano and/or Cohen would have been a bad business man to give away $200k to the Amerks and then throw away an additional $200k on players that would not help the Sabres/Cats. You don't get to have it both ways: you don't get the discounted player cost AND the parent club acting as if there was no discount. I have been consistant in my criticism of Donner being undercapitalized. You have been consistant in your criticism of the Sabres not bringing in vets. Donner's lack of capital made him NEED to have a discounted deal with the parent clubs. That discounted deal is why the parents (note: parents, not parent, as neither NHL team brought in AHL vets) didn't supply what you desperately wanted. Keep rationalizing away, but the Amerks problems started and ended w/ Donner the Hutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I counted 5 or 6 on the TSN transactions page. But for both teams, that doesn't count any of the young guys that were signed, the Butlers or Gerbes, or the guys signed right out of college before last season ended. Yeah I was looking at the mythical "veteran AHL players signed to win Calder Cups" and not the young college guys that were drafted. I don't know who, if anyone, the Panthers have signed that were drafted college players and will be in Ra-cha-cha this year. Logic doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Just because a discount is given, doesn't mean the Amerks had money laying around to spend. If Buffalo charged the standard affiliation rate, the Amerks would have had to pay it since they don't have a choice. So they just would have been a little more in debt. Everyone criticizes Donner for being a bad businessman, but spending 300-400K on vets when they don't have that money is the definition of a bad business decision. The difference between signing their own vets and paying a standard affiliation rate would have been huge. Much more expensive to sign their own veterans. And for the last time, no one was "paying the Amerks money". Bmwolf21 - Including the College free agents... Buffalo - Derek Whitmore, Mike Kostka, Matthieu Darche, Colton Fretter, Colin Murphy, Tyler Bouck Florida - Jason Garrison, Andrew Sweetland, Rory Fitzpatrick, Steve MacIntyre, James DeLory, Chris Beckford-Tseu, Janis Sprukts. First off - if you continue to insist upon sparring with Taro in this "battle of wits," you will most likely wind up on the losing end of the debate. Taro is one of the most well-respected, thoughtful and intelligent posters here (and on several boards I've visited) so your shots about his "inability to follow logic" are pretty laughable. Just a heads-up, heed or disregard it at your own peril. Second - just like gloating about Sprukts outscoring Mike Ryan, I wouldn't be crowing about signing MacIntyre, since he is a Andrew Peters "will punch for food" goon. Being generous and not counting the Gerbes, Butlers, et al., I'd say it is, at the very least, a dead heat in signings. That means that everything you previously postulated about Golisano and the Sabres being too cheap to sign AHL vets was, as we told you at the time, erroneous. From what I've seen this offseason the Sabres' decisions to add veterans to the Pirates proves what most of us said all along - that the debate about the source of the Sabres-Amerks affiliation problems is clear - it was Donner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 since he is a Andrew Peters "will punch for food" goon. Andrew must be hungry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Andrew must be hungry... Maybe Peters gets paid per punch and sugar-packets Golisano has him on a "punch count." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 You are correct that the Sabres didn't pay the Amerks. You are incorrect when stating that the difference between signing a vet or 2 vs having a standard affiliation rate would have been huge. It would have been pretty much a wash, as the Amerks owner ended up w/ about $200k extra in his oversized trousers in the affiliation agreement w/ Buffalo over what he'd have had under a standard affiliation rate and he also got to keep an extra ~$200k from his deal w/ the Cats and bringing in the vets you wanted would have cost him about $400k. So that would have been a wash. There ended up a huge difference between what Donner did and what he should have done; but paying standard rate for players or paying discount rate for players and bringing in AHL vets would not have resulted in significant differences. Those numbers are severely exaggerated. And even if they weren't, the same logic applies. The Amerks have to pay the player fees, if they don't then they can't be in the league. Signing their own veterans is a choice, not something they are required to do. You cry that the Amerks didn't have the money to bring in any vets. That was not the Sabres fault. That was the fault of Donner being undercapitalized. The Sabres and Panthers allowed the Amerks to hold onto an additional $400k. You cry that Jabba the Donner would have been a bad business man for spending money he SHOULD have spent; Golisano and/or Cohen would have been a bad business man to give away $200k to the Amerks and then throw away an additional $200k on players that would not help the Sabres/Cats. You don't get to have it both ways: you don't get the discounted player cost AND the parent club acting as if there was no discount. Never said it was the Sabres fault. Again, explain to me why every other team in the league can pay the standard rate, while their parent club went out and signed veterans. You make it sound as if the Amerks were asking Florida and Buffalo to go above and beyond what other teams do, which isn't the case. The Amerks were simply requesting the status quo for the league. You'd have a point if the Amerks wanted the affiliation discount, and then complained about no veterans. However, that wasn't the case. I have been consistant in my criticism of Donner being undercapitalized. You have been consistant in your criticism of the Sabres not bringing in vets. Donner's lack of capital made him NEED to have a discounted deal with the parent clubs. That discounted deal is why the parents (note: parents, not parent, as neither NHL team brought in AHL vets) didn't supply what you desperately wanted. Keep rationalizing away, but the Amerks problems started and ended w/ Donner the Hutt. Your facts are just off. Again, if the Amerks requested this discount, you'd be absolutely correct and you would have no argument from me. But it just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 First off - if you continue to insist upon sparring with Taro in this "battle of wits," you will most likely wind up on the losing end of the debate. Taro is one of the most well-respected, thoughtful and intelligent posters here (and on several boards I've visited) so your shots about his "inability to follow logic" are pretty laughable. Just a heads-up, heed or disregard it at your own peril. Thanks for your concern. Unfortunately, he has no grasp on what actually happened these past few years. But again, thanks for your unbiased thoughts. I can handle myself. Second - just like gloating about Sprukts outscoring Mike Ryan, I wouldn't be crowing about signing MacIntyre, since he is a Andrew Peters "will punch for food" goon. Did I? I listed the players signed. Besides, he's something the Amerks sorely lacked last season. Buffalo is close to signing the same type of player for Portland. Most minor league teams have an enforcer, so I fail to see the issue here. Being generous and not counting the Gerbes, Butlers, et al., I'd say it is, at the very least, a dead heat in signings. That means that everything you previously postulated about Golisano and the Sabres being too cheap to sign AHL vets was, as we told you at the time, erroneous. From what I've seen this offseason the Sabres' decisions to add veterans to the Pirates proves what most of us said all along - that the debate about the source of the Sabres-Amerks affiliation problems is clear - it was Donner. No, it's because they had to fill out a roster. Were they only going to play with 8 forwards? I concede had the Amerks and Sabres stayed together, they would have signed some vets. But the situation of the previous 3 years is completely different. And I didn't mention draft picks, that's why Gerbe wasn't on there. Just like I didn't mention Frolik, Repik etc. for Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Thanks for your concern. Unfortunately, he has no grasp on what actually happened these past few years. But again, thanks for your unbiased thoughts. I can handle myself. So you've decided to remain confrontational and continue to spin, distort and flip-flop your position. Best of luck to you, but from these seats it looks like Taro is going to keep beating on you... Did I? I listed the players signed. Besides, he's something the Amerks sorely lacked last season. Buffalo is close to signing the same type of player for Portland. Most minor league teams have an enforcer, so I fail to see the issue here. Just saying that the issue was "signing veteran players to help the team compete for a Calder Cup NOW." I don't consider bringing in an enforcer to be a significant step in that direction. That aside, the point is that you have repeatedly told us that Golisano and co. are too cheap to pay for any AHL vets, and here we are signing as many as savior Styres. Which leads me to believe that most of us were right - the issue was Donner and not Golisano and the Sabres. No, it's because they had to fill out a roster. Were they only going to play with 8 forwards? I concede had the Amerks and Sabres stayed together, they would have signed some vets. But the situation of the previous 3 years is completely different. And I didn't mention draft picks, that's why Gerbe wasn't on there. Just like I didn't mention Frolik, Repik etc. for Florida. Ah, that's right - the old "need to fill out the roster" garbage. I thought you told us they were going to borrow players from other teams to fill out the roster, essentially maintaining a multiple-parent club setup? What happened with that? If not for the entertainment value of Taro continually reaming you, I'd probably check out right now and stop reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Those numbers are severely exaggerated. And even if they weren't, the same logic applies. The Amerks have to pay the player fees, if they don't then they can't be in the league. Signing their own veterans is a choice, not something they are required to do. Clearly whether players were signed (or more accurately, NOT signed) by the Amerks was a "choice". What does that have to do with the price of tea at the Olympics? Never said it was the Sabres fault. Again, explain to me why every other team in the league can pay the standard rate, while their parent club went out and signed veterans. You make it sound as if the Amerks were asking Florida and Buffalo to go above and beyond what other teams do, which isn't the case. The Amerks were simply requesting the status quo for the league. You'd have a point if the Amerks wanted the affiliation discount, and then complained about no veterans. However, that wasn't the case. Your facts are just off. Again, if the Amerks requested this discount, you'd be absolutely correct and you would have no argument from me. But it just isn't true. Your 1st venture to this board was pretty much completely filled w/ the Panthers will be great parents, the Sabres were horrible because they were too cheap to get the Amerks AHL vets. That, and stop picking on poor Steve Donner. The Amerks got the discount. There was nothing stopping them from signing AHL vets on their own. They CHOSE not to get AHL vets even though they had much lower player costs than other AHL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Taro, I have to ask. With all the shots you took at Stevie, how did you mention Hershey in one post and not spin that one? Too obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 He's been here before, and as soon as we stop discussing the Amerks he'll be gone. I haven't seen him contribute in any thread other than the ones regarding the breakup of the Amerks-Sabres affiliation. His previous stops were very "Brain-esque," FWIW. I really thought we'd seen the last of him when the Portland agreement was signed and the season got closer, but no dice. Well, since you mentioned it, here are my thoughts on Amerk6, aka "Steve Donner is my mentor/role model." Only fitting, considering the extremely high annoyance levels of him and "The Brain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 With all the arguments about Golisano and Donner, it seems like there's a missed point. I see the situation like this: Let's say you move into an apartment with a somebody (as room-mates, Buffalo and Florida). Each of you brings furniture (players) with you. Luckily, between you have enough furniture to outfit the apartment, but there are two couches and two kitchen tables. Neither of you wants to go out and buy furniture to replace the redundant stuff, so you muddle along. The people that come to your house (Donner and the Amerks fans) complain that someone should put some of their furniture in storage (ECHL?) and buy the 'right' stuff (AHL vets, chairs instead of an extra couch, a bar to replace the kitchen table in the corner of the living room). So, are you going to go risk your future by storing or dumping existing stuff to placate the fans+Donner, or are you going to tell them to bugger off the current situation works for me? The fact that Donner seems be a moron just makes it worse. Now that Buffalo has another 10 AHL roster sports to fill, they've been signing up a bunch of players. It doesn't seem like money was issue in the first place. It's not the cleanest analogy, but I think you get the viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Not a vet, but they signed another one for Portland. Buffalo Sabres GM Darcy Regier announced today the Sabres have signed unrestricted free agent LW Jimmy Bonneau. Bonneau (3/22/1985, 6?3?, 220 lbs.) split last season between Hamilton (AHL) and Cincinnati (ECHL), picking up five points (1+4) and 66 PIMs in 24 combined games. Bonneau played junior hockey with Montreal and PEI (QMJHL) from 2002-05, finishing with 47 points (19+28) and 758 PIMs in 205 games. A native of Baie-Comeau, Quebec, Bonneau was originally selected by Montreal in the eighth round (241st overall) of the 2003 Entry Draft. By the looks of 200 plus penalty minutes, could be Peters replacement in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Not a vet, but they signed another one for Portland. Buffalo Sabres GM Darcy Regier announced today the Sabres have signed unrestricted free agent LW Jimmy Bonneau. Bonneau (3/22/1985, 6?3?, 220 lbs.) split last season between Hamilton (AHL) and Cincinnati (ECHL), picking up five points (1+4) and 66 PIMs in 24 combined games. Bonneau played junior hockey with Montreal and PEI (QMJHL) from 2002-05, finishing with 47 points (19+28) and 758 PIMs in 205 games. A native of Baie-Comeau, Quebec, Bonneau was originally selected by Montreal in the eighth round (241st overall) of the 2003 Entry Draft. By the looks of 200 plus penalty minutes, could be Peters replacement in a few years. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=70642 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=70642 I told you something big was coming! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I told you something big was coming! :rolleyes: What is the word from inside the Arena? Things still brewing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted August 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 What is the word from inside the Arena? Things still brewing? Nothing has changed. I firmly believe that something rather big will happen. I am about 80 % percent sure that they have two deals on the table for Max and are just waiting for their first choice to say go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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