SwampD Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I despise Miller. Maybe we should have kept Biron and given Miller to philly. From whet i've heard they are going to the playoffs so he must be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Maybe we should have kept Biron and given Miller to philly. From whet i've heard they are going to the playoffs so he must be better. :D Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Only Buffalo can have a goalie controversy when they only have one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Only Buffalo can have a goalie controversy when they only have one! If Flutie had started in goal tonight, we would have won! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 If Flutie had started in goal tonight, we would have won! :lol: I think that is the one thing written all night that not a single person can argue with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 If Flutie had started in goal tonight, we would have won! :lol: Nah I'd go with Rob Johnson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Exactly my point. You can debate how many of the goals tonight should or shouldnt have been saved by Miller, but one thing is for sure a large number of them were the consequence of poor effort and play on behalf of the 5 guys in front of Miller. Things do not happen in a vacuum and everyone on the ice, including Miller, deserves blame most times when goals are scored. I honestly think we are in a perfect storm, so to speak, with our defense and goaltending problems down the stretch: - We find ourselves needing to beg, borrow and steal every possible point, but T-Bo hasn't earned anyone's trust so Ryan plays almost every night. I honestly think he is hitting the wall, both physically and mentally - 71 games played, 25 straight and 27/28 since the ASB - and you're starting to see it in his mechanics and timing. As his workload is increasing, his numbers are climbing. - It cannot be overstated how much a good backup and a night off would help Ryan. His best month this year? January - 4-3-3, 1.96, .928; T-Bo played three games (two starts) plus Miller got three-four days off for the ASB. His worst months have been October (when he struggled out of the gate with personal issues) and February-March, where his workload increased and the schedule got more grueling and demanding. - Very shaky and inconsistent defense. The Sabres are giving up odd-man rushes and breakaways at alarming rates, veteran defensemen are not stepping up their games (I'm looking at you, Kalinin, Lydman and to a lesser extent, Tallinder) defensive injuries and breakdowns, the loss of Campbell (much as I wanted to see us get something for him, knowing we won't be able to sign him at the lottery rates he is going to get this offseason, he still did log a lot of ice time, which in turn limited Kalinin and Lydman's ice time somewhat.) - The system. We're not designed as a grind-it-out, shutdown the opponent, grab a couple goals and hang on for the win-type team. We seem to be in constant attack mode, and we're getting burned repeatedly. As I've posted in the past, this offense is feast or famine most nights and hasn't shown any consistency. That puts a lot of stress on an already mediocre defense and a goalie who is facing a lot of prime scoring ops. I just don't know anymore. I'm just so disgusted right now, and right now I don't even know if I can stomach watching the last few games. I just don't know what to expect anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Nah I'd go with Rob Johnson! Cmon, everyone knows JP Losman is the best goalie ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 NO! I was going to start an official "Blame" thread... But, I suppose here is good. Look at the records... Only 2 losses separate BFLO and OTT! You know what that points to? SPECIAL TEAMS! Poor ability to win shootouts and PowerPlay... Another shortie given up last night... Sure they happen, but it is nice if you can augment without an anemic powerplay! BFLO has the most shootout/OT losses in the league... Just 50% more wins in the games the Sabres took to the SO would have them firmly entrenched in the playoffs!!! What is scary is the Habs! They have 10 and still a great record... You know why? AWESOME PP UNIT! The differnence is really special teams! I am not sure who that falls on other than the big guy... Ruff. You can't blame DB or CD leaving... A pro hockey team that has a legit shot should alwys have these special units squared away... You really don't need CD and DB on the team!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I would agree that having no PP whatsoever is a huge part of our problems, much the same as last year and every year under Ruff, barring the 00-01 and 05-06 season. Time to get a legitimate PP coach and no, letting Scott Arniel go is NOT the cause of our woes, as the PP was crap under Arniel for several seasons except the two mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I would agree that having no PP whatsoever is a huge part of our problems, much the same as last year and every year under Ruff, barring the 00-01 and 05-06 season. Time to get a legitimate PP coach and no, letting Scott Arniel go is NOT the cause of our woes, as the PP was crap under Arniel for several seasons except the two mentioned above. Could it be the "system" that is inhibiting the PP... Kinda like going straight from 4th to 1st... There is some sort of "disconnect" there... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Balls Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Cmon, everyone knows JP Losman is the best goalie ever! Obviously you have never seen Trent Edwards lace em up. I've called Miller out for goals here and there, but I think a lot of Sabres' fans (not directing this at you) have been spoiled rotten by watching one of the greatest goalies in NHL history wearing the B&G and B&R, so I think he gets a lot more blame than the 20 guys in front of him. It comes with the position, but a lot of fans either fail to recognize or discount the fact that goals don't happen in a vacuum, there are usually multiple breakdowns and failures before a puck crosses the goal line. I said last year I thought Miller was a top 5 goalie in the league (maybe even top 3). I still think he can be up there but he can't do it on his own. He really needs some help help on D, especially someone who can clear out the front of the net. I am sure he is as mentally beat up as he is physically. The guy has been run how many times this year with NO ONE coming in to defend him, that has to wear on him too. If he hasn't already, he is going to ask himself is it worth playing on a team that does nothing to help him out. And I mean that from the front office not putting a good defense in front of him and the fact that his own teammates hang him out to dry. The Sabres have taken what could be an elite goalie in the NHL and made him look mediocre. Brodeur and Hasek (in Detroit) have had stellar defenses in front of them and they still look great at their ages. I really don't know what LQ and DR look at when they are building a team, other than how cheap can they get someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 NO! I was going to start an official "Blame" thread... But, I suppose here is good. Look at the records... Only 2 losses separate BFLO and OTT! You know what that points to? SPECIAL TEAMS! Poor ability to win shootouts and PowerPlay... Another shortie given up last night... Sure they happen, but it is nice if you can augment without an anemic powerplay! BFLO has the most shootout/OT losses in the league... Just 50% more wins in the games the Sabres took to the SO would have them firmly entrenched in the playoffs!!! What is scary is the Habs! They have 10 and still a great record... You know why? AWESOME PP UNIT! The differnence is really special teams! I am not sure who that falls on other than the big guy... Ruff. You can't blame DB or CD leaving... A pro hockey team that has a legit shot should alwys have these special units squared away... You really don't need CD and DB on the team!! Then who can you blame? the PP was just as bad at time last year and the only difference between the 2 teams (this year and last years team) was DB and CD and a backup goalie. Can't say its TC because he missed almost all of last year except a couple of games games. I can understand a drop from 1st to maybe the middle being blamed on a horrible ST's, but not from 1st in the league to not making the playoffs, theres bigger problems, and it all starts with the points let go and the leadership lost from those 2. The only reason they are at the top of the league in scoring right now is because they have had a bunch of games where they really blew out an opponent, its not like they are consistently scoring 3-4 goals a night, they go through spurts where they are scoring 7-8 goals, and then not scoring any or only 1-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I just don't know anymore. I'm just so disgusted right now, and right now I don't even know if I can stomach watching the last few games. I just don't know what to expect anymore. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Well said. Last night I was stunned and disappointed. Today I am furious, disgusted, despondent, enraged...so if I lash out at anyone, I apologize in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 this is where i step off and scale back. my reaction as i watched the game last night after a 6-day hiatus (my own): dismay and disappointment, for sure. but as much as anything, i just felt badly for everyone concerned - for me and all the fans for starters, the players and coaches as well - hell, even darcy. i felt sad for rj, who seems to realize that he's not going to call a cup-winner for his home team. and let's not stop there, i'd have to throw in quinn. and golisano. and why not bucky? then i started feeling badly for the downtown restaurant- and tavern-owners who have a much nicer summer (and better year) when there are a few more home dates in the spring. and on it went. there's a lot of black/white talk on this board that is stuck in the moment (e.g., the team as presently comprised is proof positive that quinn's/golisano's a myopic and miserly fugger, vanek will never live up to his contract, miller's an overrated stoner, timely offers of 5 years at 5 mill would've brought a cup to buffalo and solved world hunger at the same time). i tend to see the world as painted in shades of grey. so i don't buy into the theories that quinn/golisano maniacally dismantled the greatest sabres team ever in order to make a few more greasy bucks, that the current roster lacks the talent/grit/jam/heart to play a winning brand of playoff hockey, that our defense is a laughing-stock and we're therefore headed to hell in a handbasket for the next 5 years, etc. the truth is somewhere betwixt and between the severe positions that fans tend to stake out when things have fallen apart for the season. and no one has a crystal ball. what i see is a team with significant talent in some areas, real promise in others, fundamental flaws in certain respects, and some unanswered questions in still others. that's my team, for good and for ill. go sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Guts? Maybe? When those players decided to leave they proved they were far from being the heart of the team. If Drury and Briere had heart they would have stayed to finish what they started. They both could have signed and decided to leave. So, if you want to cry, go cry to them. If you want we can live in fan world. Where we ignore that the Sabres went for broke last season and came up short, with Drury and Briere. It looks like the fans will be divided in two. One side where every decision made by the Sabres is wrong and every thing would have been perfect if they would have done the opposite. And then there is the real world. Where fans realize this is a young team with talented players and a bright future. Did you say "embarrassed"? Take a closer look at where this team came from. But I guess the reality of this team, at one point, being run by the league is lost on some. DeLuca -- you are a good fan, and I generally respect your opinion. But this is nonsense. So if we offered them $1 per year and they turned it down, would that have proved they were far from the heart of the team? The point is that hockey players play the game for money -- even blood-and-guts leaders. Ryan Smyth left the Oilers for money, just like Scott Niedermayer left the Devils for money. That's life. It doesn't mean that they weren't the guts of this team. Frankly, I don't see how anyone who's watched the Sabres this year can't see the hole that they left behind them. And yes, they came up short with those 2 last year. That doesn't mean you dismantle the team and start over. The logical thing to do is build around your core and add pieces here and there -- NOT let your guts get ripped out while you stand by helplessly. Anaheim was knocking on the door for 3 years before they won it. They didn't dump Niedermayer and Giguere and start over. And I don't think every decision they made was wrong. But it seems incontrovertible that they utterly and completely crapped the bed on those 2, with devastating results. Every single time they were tested this year in a gut-check situation, they failed. The 7-game home stand late in the year with the playoffs there to be taken? They win ONE game. And finally, I am very happy that we still have a team with a lot of good young players. I will always be grateful to Golisano for saving the team. It is precious to me, as I'm sure it is to most of us. But that doesn't mean that I don't have the right to call out management for butchering what should have been a final 4 team for this year and at least 3 more. There's so much crap in that paragraph, I don't know where to begin.1) It wasn't a choice of Briere or Roy. It was Briere or somewhere between $5 and $7 million per year for five or more years. In fact, the only reason that he and Roy are mentioned together is that they are both small centers. Roy has more in common with Drury than with Briere. 2) Roy is better than Briere in most ways and will probably pass him in every other way over the next couple of years. 3) Briere may make the playoffs, but he didn't do it all there. Since you like to compare the two, he has less goals and assists than Roy, and he's a -21! Oh, and Roy is $3 million per year less. Hell, I'd rather have Richards than Briere if we are talking Flyers' centers. 5) I might have kept Briere for a year or two as the team transitions, but I wouldn't take him for 5-6 years even now. There were better alternatives for that kind of money. I've said it before and I'll say it again, where they failed was in who the didn't bring in, not who they didn't keep. 1. Carp -- you spend enough time on this board to have seen the same threads I have, crowing about how much better Roy is than Briere. I mentioned Roy because of those threads -- not because we had to choose between them. 2. Roy is better than Briere in certain ways, but not in others -- like converting on a breakaway, both in regulation and in the shootout (and yes, I know Roy pulled it out tonight, but it's many days late and many dollars short). Did we win ANY shootouts this year when we needed points? 3. Obviously Briere didn't do it all in Philly, but it can't be disputed that he played a big role (2nd leading scorer) in getting the worst team in the east last year into the playoffs this year. I'll say it again: if we still had Briere, we'd be in the playoffs. Do you disagree? this is where i step off and scale back. my reaction as i watched the game last night after a 6-day hiatus (my own): dismay and disappointment, for sure. but as much as anything, i just felt badly for everyone concerned - for me and all the fans for starters, the players and coaches as well - hell, even darcy. i felt sad for rj, who seems to realize that he's not going to call a cup-winner for his home team. and let's not stop there, i'd have to throw in quinn. and golisano. and why not bucky? then i started feeling badly for the downtown restaurant- and tavern-owners who have a much nicer summer (and better year) when there are a few more home dates in the spring. and on it went. there's a lot of black/white talk on this board that is stuck in the moment (e.g., the team as presently comprised is proof positive that quinn's/golisano's a myopic and miserly fugger, vanek will never live up to his contract, miller's an overrated stoner, timely offers of 5 years at 5 mill would've brought a cup to buffalo and solved world hunger at the same time). i tend to see the world as painted in shades of grey. so i don't buy into the theories that quinn/golisano maniacally dismantled the greatest sabres team ever in order to make a few more greasy bucks, that the current roster lacks the talent/grit/jam/heart to play a winning brand of playoff hockey, that our defense is a laughing-stock and we're therefore headed to hell in a handbasket for the next 5 years, etc. the truth is somewhere betwixt and between the severe positions that fans tend to stake out when things have fallen apart for the season. and no one has a crystal ball. what i see is a team with significant talent in some areas, real promise in others, fundamental flaws in certain respects, and some unanswered questions in still others. that's my team, for good and for ill. go sabres. Amen, and goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 1. Carp -- you spend enough time on this board to have seen the same threads I have, crowing about how much better Roy is than Briere. I mentioned Roy because of those threads -- not because we had to choose between them. 2. Roy is better than Briere in certain ways, but not in others -- like converting on a breakaway, both in regulation and in the shootout (and yes, I know Roy pulled it out tonight, but it's many days late and many dollars short). Did we win ANY shootouts this year when we needed points? 3. Obviously Briere didn't do it all in Philly, but it can't be disputed that he played a big role (2nd leading scorer) in getting the worst team in the east last year into the playoffs this year. I'll say it again: if we still had Briere, we'd be in the playoffs. Do you disagree? Amen, and goodnight. 1. Yeah, I've seen them. I just wanted to make sure you didn't think it was a choice between them, as your post seemed to imply. If that was not your intention, then I apologize. 2. Briere's also a little better at setting up plays, but again, I think that will change in short time. In almost all other ways, I'd say Roy is a better player. The Flyers could offer to trade Briere for Roy straight up, even covering the salary difference (not sure that's legal, but ...) and I still would say no. BTW, tonight we needed the points, so the answer to your question is yes! 3. That team is completely different than last year's team. They made far more changes than we did. He's contributed some to offense, but not nearly to a level that a veteran making that much money and contributing that little to defense needs to. Would we have made the playoffs this year if he were on this team? Maybe. Probably. However, I imagine that would be true for an awful lot of other players that could be added to this team. They are so close, that they aren't even out of it yet. If we had Drury, we probably would have made it, too. If we signed on just about any veteran top-two-line center to put between Hecht and Pominville (or even a consistent third line center, so Gaustad could have stayed up there all season), we probably would be in a better spot. Heck, just a veteran physical D-man might have been enough to solidify our playoff hopes. However, I would still say that getting rid of Briere was not the problem -- for the money it would have taken, that was the right choice -- it was not bringing someone else in his/Chris' place when they lost Drury. They didn't need to replace both; just one would have been sufficient. We lost veteran leadership, which was not replaced at all. We also lost two top-line centers and they put too much faith in Connolly filling one of those slots. Roy could move up to fill one and Gaustad and Mair could take the third and fourth lines, but with the constant maybe that is Timmy, they were thin down the middle. Hecht is a great winger, but he is just not a true center. And then there is our defense ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 1. Yeah, I've seen them. I just wanted to make sure you didn't think it was a choice between them, as your post seemed to imply. If that was not your intention, then I apologize.2. Briere's also a little better at setting up plays, but again, I think that will change in short time. In almost all other ways, I'd say Roy is a better player. The Flyers could offer to trade Briere for Roy straight up, even covering the salary difference (not sure that's legal, but ...) and I still would say no. BTW, tonight we needed the points, so the answer to your question is yes! 3. That team is completely different than last year's team. They made far more changes than we did. He's contributed some to offense, but not nearly to a level that a veteran making that much money and contributing that little to defense needs to. Would we have made the playoffs this year if he were on this team? Maybe. Probably. However, I imagine that would be true for an awful lot of other players that could be added to this team. They are so close, that they aren't even out of it yet. If we had Drury, we probably would have made it, too. If we signed on just about any veteran top-two-line center to put between Hecht and Pominville (or even a consistent third line center, so Gaustad could have stayed up there all season), we probably would be in a better spot. Heck, just a veteran physical D-man might have been enough to solidify our playoff hopes. However, I would still say that getting rid of Briere was not the problem -- for the money it would have taken, that was the right choice -- it was not bringing someone else in his/Chris' place when they lost Drury. They didn't need to replace both; just one would have been sufficient. We lost veteran leadership, which was not replaced at all. We also lost two top-line centers and they put too much faith in Connolly filling one of those slots. Roy could move up to fill one and Gaustad and Mair could take the third and fourth lines, but with the constant maybe that is Timmy, they were thin down the middle. Hecht is a great winger, but he is just not a true center. And then there is our defense ... I agree with almost everything you said in this post, although I wouldn't trade Briere for Roy for this season (not sure about long term). Briere certainly isn't worth $50 million, and I don't think we should've paid that much. I do think, however, that when Drury bailed on them in the fall, they should've immediately signed Briere, which I think they could've done for $35 million or so. I think that would've kept us in the playoffs (and, who knows, possibly made Drury change his mind). In any case you are absolutely right that having lost both, they should've recognized the need for veteran leadership and brought in a veteran center. And counting on the glass man was foolish. Or maybe I'm just bitter and irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxhurtz Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I would have liked to have seen Drury and Briere signed even before the season started on each of their final year of their contracts. That would have saved a huge headache for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I agree with almost everything you said in this post, although I wouldn't trade Briere for Roy for this season (not sure about long term). Briere certainly isn't worth $50 million, and I don't think we should've paid that much. I do think, however, that when Drury bailed on them in the fall, they should've immediately signed Briere, which I think they could've done for $35 million or so. I think that would've kept us in the playoffs (and, who knows, possibly made Drury change his mind). In any case you are absolutely right that having lost both, they should've recognized the need for veteran leadership and brought in a veteran center. And counting on the glass man was foolish. Not sure why you say "although", because I said that I wouldn't trade Roy for Briere even if the Flyers covered the salary difference. Also, they didn't know that wouldn't get Drury until the first day of FA and by that point it was too late to get Briere for much less than what he got. Do you mean when the initial talks broke down in the Fall of 2006? That was too early to know for sure that Drury wouldn't be signed (though, it should have been a sign the they would have to work a little harder at it.) And, if you mean $35 million for 7 years (i.e., $5 million per year), then I'd still say hell no. I wouldn't even have given him the magical 5 for 5 contract. Take that money and look for someone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I would have liked to have seen Drury and Briere signed even before the season started on each of their final year of their contracts. That would have saved a huge headache for everyone. Most people probably would have agreed with you on Drury at the time (and it probably would have been a very good move), but not many would have with Briere. He had one decent season, then half of a very good season. He also was only on a one year contract that took the arbitrator to get him his $5 million. If you could go back to late summer, early fall 2006 and post a "should we give Briere a 5 year, $25 million contract" poll, you likely would have gotten a lot more no's than yes's. It was only through hindsight that most people thought that was a good deal. Both contract prices as a whole and his value in particular ballooned last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Most people probably would have agreed with you on Drury at the time (and it probably would have been a very good move), but not many would have with Briere. He had one decent season, then half of a very good season. He also was only on a one year contract that took the arbitrator to get him his $5 million. If you could go back to late summer, early fall 2006 and post a "should we give Briere a 5 year, $25 million contract" poll, you likely would have gotten a lot more no's than yes's. It was only through hindsight that most people thought that was a good deal. Both contract prices as a whole and his value in particular ballooned last year. More then Timmy had when the Sabres locked him up long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 More then Timmy had when the Sabres locked him up long term Two wrongs don't make a right. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Not sure why you say "although", because I said that I wouldn't trade Roy for Briere even if the Flyers covered the salary difference. Also, they didn't know that wouldn't get Drury until the first day of FA and by that point it was too late to get Briere for much less than what he got. Do you mean when the initial talks broke down in the Fall of 2006? That was too early to know for sure that Drury wouldn't be signed (though, it should have been a sign the they would have to work a little harder at it.) And, if you mean $35 million for 7 years (i.e., $5 million per year), then I'd still say hell no. I wouldn't even have given him the magical 5 for 5 contract. Take that money and look for someone better. My point was that I would rather have Briere than Roy, at least for this year, while I interpreted your post to mean the opposite -- hence the "although" -- ie I agreed with everything in your post except the preference for Roy over Briere. As for the timing -- my point was that when Drury said no in the fall of 2006, that was when they should have immediately turned to Briere -- because they should have decided that under no circumstances were they going to risk losing both captains. And I actually meant $35 million for 6 years, so I think we are pretty far apart on what we think Briere is worth. I know there are plenty of posters here (probably a majority) who disagree with me on Briere's worth, but I say again: if we had him this year, we'd be in the playoffs -- and probably top 4 in the conference. This team isn't far off. It needs a good defenseman, a good center, and most of all, leadership and mental toughness. Feel free to disagree, but I think Briere gave us 3 out of those 4 missing qualities. He was clutch. Oh, well. This is the definition of crying over spilled milk, so we might as well move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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