LTS

This definitely was not the motto in college. As for the Reason article being discussed.. my interpretation was that he was not tried. The school expelled him because they adopted guilty until proven innocent. The point is that the school was found to be acting wrongfully in that case forcing the alleged attacker to prove he was innocent which as they pointed out would be damn near impossible.

Hard to justify the $60.99 price point when most games are $59.99 or less. I understand the idea of her accompanying her friend. But let's take thought processes a few steps further. Was her friend hitting on Kane and was she implying that she wanted to have sex with him? If so, let's assume that sex actually occurs. Is she just hanging around in Patrick Kane's house while they have sex? Seems a bit odd to me. Not only that, what is she protecting? In theory, this would have been the anticipated consensual sexual encounter. If not, then we have implied previously that if it was her that was invited she had no reason to expect Patrick Kane would rape her, then why would she have to accompany her friend? Was fer friend at more risk than herself for being raped by Patrick Kane? If that was a thought, why would you even go to his house? So, let's not discuss this with trying to assign any of this to this particular situation and the potential victim here. Let's discuss this as a hypothetical, two girls are in a bar with a sports superstar way.

And that answers one of the questions I had. Smart move. I think, regardless of whether he is actually charged, there is more here for EA to base their decision on. If am sitting at EA I am looking at my eagerly anticipated new game that atones for the sins of it's predecessor (I played the NHL16 EASHL beta.. it's nice). I have chosen the slogan "Play together. Win Together." I have locked up arguably one of the best franchise pairs for the cover. They have won 3 cups together, they embody my entire marketing campaign. I get this news. Patrick Kane investigated for rape. It involves a female that is not his girlfriend. Initial thought: Somehow, having Kane on the front cover with the slogan "Play together. Win together." will certainly set off the wrong kind of internet memes. Next thought, I am about to put this guy out as a face of my game. Regardless of guilt, he clearly has no regard for his girlfriend and will clearly have a womanizer tag attributed to him.. at best. At worst, he's charged and he's guilty. Next thought: Can I get the artwork changed in time and get him out of the game? His status as a young adult with a tendency to party but otherwise seemingly upstanding just went through the floor. He might recover in time (depending on the severity of the event) but he's toxic right now. I wouldn't be surprised if EA postponed the physical media release if they were unable to recall and change all packaging in time. Any disc that was printed with that logo on the front has to be changed. All inserts, all manuals, not to mention changing the software graphics. They can fix the digital aspects quickly and release downloadable versions of the game but it would take longer to fix the physical materials.

You know.. my filter worked pretty well. I am getting good at ignoring stupid media sensationalism crap like that. I didn't even pay attention to the photo and went straight to the words. Bad choice on the photo, no doubt.

The lack of knowledge and voice not contributing to a discussion isn't important. Hell, some of the 10k plus posters still do it all the time!!!! :) But in all honesty, chime in when you can. Ask questions.. learn.. enjoy.

Just some information that I came across today that pertains to the topic but not necessarily the specific situation. I have not read it in full... http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/11/campus-rape-expert-who-misrepresented-hi The link should work, but I wouldn't be surprised if they change it soon to represent the full title.

There are a lot of very bad "craft beers" out there. Craft does not mean good. Not by any means. Jack's Abby makes an IPL you might find tasty. There are others who make IPLs as well, but I'm going to keep being a JA fanboy! Look for Hoponius Union. IPL = India Pale Lager

Love the Sabres... that's actually pretty damn fantastic.. never even thought of that one. Intriguingly, the LTS was sort of the natural evolution of handle and life. At one point, in the BBS days.. (pre-Internet, you know). I commonly used the name LIfetaker. That was commonly abbreviated into LT. Later in life I started a business and since I was so used to the LT I basically played off that and called it Lightning Technology Solutions.. aka - LTS. And now? it's just LTS... but I suppose I could be Love the Sabres here. :)

And that's how it should be... it happened earlier in the thread (I forget who). The statement basically was. "Wait.. I want to make sure I am understanding what you said, this is how I read that... is that correct?" It's seeking to understand and it's far more productive than what normally happens.

Then again... if people ignored the trolling... The entire reason they are doing it is to gain attention and people routinely give it to them. Calling them out is not going to reduce the instance of trolling, it adds to it. It feeds their fire. Even if they are banned. The best bet is to treat them like they don't exist. Either they elevate their trolling to the point where the mods ban that alias or they quit and go home. They aren't worth the effort. It also eliminates any chance of falsely accusing a new poster of being someone else. In addition, if that new poster has trolling tendencies and they realize no one is responding to them they will either examine their approach and alter it or they will leave. We know all this and yet people get sucked in.

I do love some of the pilot stuff I have had. As for the other stuff? Not my thing. But the smell of wort? Hello!

Let's see if I can get this right so it stays coherent. You bolded my original statement: "What is wrong to assign to her some level of expectation to be raped as a result of making that decision." The way that phrase should read is.... "It is absolutely wrong to assign her some level of expectation to be raped as a result of making that decision". Wow.. I know what I meant when I typed the original statement but in reading back your quote of it I was wondering why you altered what I wrote and then realized... no, I just phrased that very poorly. Granted, I would have used a question mark if I were asking the question, but that aside. I am glad I had a moment to restate what I was getting at there. I don't think anyone would have realistically believed he would be investigated for rape. That's my point. Why should this woman expect it, if no one expected it up to this point?

:cry: :flirt:

I disagree on it being a strange statement. It is absolutely 100% true that if she does not make the decision to go back to his house that she would not have been raped there. It's not about expectation or who's to blame or common sense per se. It's about the inability of an act to occur when the preceding events do not take place to create the scenario for that act to occur. She is responsible for making a decision. It's a decision that each of us can ask ourselves "Would we do that?". I don't know that I would consider that decision to be something mundane however. What is wrong to assign to her some level of expectation to be raped as a result of making that decision. Everyone should take a moment and answer this simple question. Until this story broke, what was the probability that you expected to see Patrick Kane being investigated for a rape charge? Answer that, then go back and be the woman making a split second decision about going to his house.

I got nothing.

You've nailed it. Thought process is why people speculate. It's sure as hell why I speculate. I love thinking. Period. I try not constrain myself in what I think, I only constrain myself in how I act (most of the time). For example, I have often thought what would happen if while walking randomly down the street I just punched someone in the face. I've never done this mind you because my respect towards others has always won out over the pure speculation of events that would occur should I initiate that action. Likewise, I find fascination in the machinations of people. The act itself could be absolutely despicable but I am curious as to why it happened. The human brain goes a long way to interfere with the balance that nature has so carefully crafted. The actions of people are fascinating and knowing that there is a chance of some kind of strange sub-plot out there is what draws people in. Most of the time it's straightforward. If you think about rape cases, most of them never even enter our minds. There could have been someone raped in San Antonio last night and we'd not give it a second thought. Now, this case involves a well known hockey player and happens to have occurred in a city that most of us all have a relationship with (even if it is just being a Sabres fan). So we take on this added interest, moreover, we want to see who and what in the city are involved. it's like some kind of sick status update "Hey Look, we're capable of superstar athlete rape scenarios as well." Sure it's a totally twisted status update, but the fact is that Buffalo now belongs to that fraternity. So, I threw out there in my last post that I could speculate that someone could scheme to blackmail Patrick Kane basically by plotting to sleep with him and then claiming rape. I'm in no way saying the person involved in this case did such a thing. I also look at order of operations and the logical balance between them. If Patrick Kane respected other human beings (I can't say he ONLY disrespects women) then he would not be in this situation. It starts first with respecting the person you were in a relationship with. He could have thought about wanting to have sex with other women. He may have even speculated what it would be like. However, had his respect for others been stronger he would not have acted on it. Even then, people slip up and cheat on the people they are in a relationship with. I would speculate that it's easier to cheat when the sex is consensual. Which brings me to the next point, he not only didn't respect his existing girlfriend and their relationship, but should he actually be guilty of forcing sex on this other woman he would not only clearly disrespected her but in addition have had so little respect for his GF that he was willing to rape another woman to have sex. If I sit and speculate about that I find myself wanting to see Patrick Kane removed from the daily lexicon of society. It's so abhorrently disgusting that I try not to speculate about how a brain could work that way. I mean, clearly it can and I don't delude myself into thinking people are incapable of the actions.. I just wish they weren't. I did have a couple of other thoughts to share. Even though we are now reasonably certain (or 100% certain) that this does not involve a person incapable of consent. I had a thought surrounding that. There is a discussion on how we would not hold that person accountable for their actions because they were under 17. There were some analogies made and I believe they were all "not as serious" as rape. However, if a 16 year old murders someone the court system is willing to consider trying them as an adult. That is to say, assume in a random statutory rape case the underage person was willfully engaging in sex (despite the law not recognizing that). The law says, that person cannot be treated as an adult and the adult is at fault. Even if that 16 year old managed to create fake identification that was good enough to fool a staff trained at spotting fake identification (or are presumably actually checking) and enter an establishment and be in a setting that should not contain someone under the age of consent. But, if that same person was strategic in their planning and carried out a murder the law allows for them to now be considered an adult. In this entire situation please understand I am not saying that this person agreed to sex (regardless of the legal ability to do so). Whereas a 16 year old who doesn't agree (regardless of their legal ability to do that as well) but was forced to have sex goes so far beyond just the statutory aspect of things. (pure food for thought, speculation, and enlightened discussion). Also, does EASports pull Kane from the upcoming NHL16 title? You'd think they've started the RTM processes, the container printing, etc. Glad I'm not the product manager on that game right now.

Sorry. AJ's Beer Warehouse is where I would recommend going. I am sure Premier Gourmet in Buffalo has it. It's not really rare. I had a collaboration brew they did with Otter Creek this past weekend. It was kind of like smoked IPL. Joint Compound or something or other? It was incredible.

Eeesh. Gone for a weekend and this thread is filled with some good information and a lot of personal attacks. I guess it's okay to make personal attacks.. in a thread that discusses a form of personal attack right? A few quick things... A scenario will present itself and that scenario will come with a set of potential outcomes. Some will be more probable than the others. Not everyone will be able to think of the same possible outcomes nor will they likely think of the same probably outcomes. To presume that everyone operates from the same form of decision making and information processing capabilities is ignorant and irresponsible. Proof? If we all did then we'd all think like Patrick Kane.. (do you think like Patrick Kane?) There needs to be the ability to allow for possibilities in what could have transpired without it being a referendum on the person in question. Anecdotal stories have merit because they prove that an outcome is possible, even if it is not probable. It's not inconceivable to me that in the realm of human behavior that a woman could decide that she wants to try and lure Patrick Kane into having sex with her with the intention of then filing a rape charge with the hopes of the charge resulting in some kind of million dollar settlement. If I were listing my top X of possible scenarios this probably doesn't make it into the list, but the news is rife with discussions on the despicable things humans will do. That said, even if that were to happen, once, anywhere, at anytime, that does not mean that this particular woman, in this particular scenario should be accused, specifically, of having done that. There should be the ability for a discussion that allows the scenario to exist without also simultaneously casting judgment on the specific people involved. It's a fine line, there's no doubt. It's almost like making a Law & Order episode if you will. Based on actual events but twisted to sound more dramatic and twisted. Here's the simple bottom line that I am hoping we all adhere to. Non-consensual sex is wrong. Period. There are no mitigating factors. However, we don't know that there was non-consensual sex. We know that someone has made an accusation that sex occurred and they did not consent to it. That is what we know about this particular case right? Hopefully my points come across and are not totally disjointed. It's not easy to spend over an hour reading this thread, at work (during lunch and then some I guess), while constantly waivering back and forth between I should say this or I should not say that or I should comment or I should not. It's an important discussion, but with regards to the exact scenario this thread originally covered all we have is patience to learn what has or has not happened. The philosophical discussion pieces are great mental exercises but being tied to this thread add a level of volatility that hampers the discussion.

Your ability to obscure your living area will likewise result in the location of beers remaining obscure. You said you are not in Buffalo or Rochester. So you could be all over the place. You want me to suggest a bottle shop in Auburn if you live in Chautauqua? How about one in Newfane if you live in Franklinville? So... that's the best I got. Find your favorite craft beer store. If they don't have Jack's Abby tell them they should get some or buy it when you go to Rochester or Buffalo.

The key to remember here on the word rape. Rape in and of itself implies forced sex without consent. Statutory Rape doesn't require forced sex because that would just be rape. What it says is that the person was unable to give consent because they are under 17. I don't know what happens if a person who is under 17 ends up in a bar that does not allow minors (I have no idea if that bar does) and ends up having sex with someone over 21. It seems reasonable to me that a person in the bar should be of consenting age. Even more so, if he "proofed" her and she produces an ID that says she is of consenting age then I think it's even harder to judge what is going on there. Here's what I do know... if you are in a relationship with someone you should not end up in a situation like this with someone else unless you make some seriously questionable choices. In our litigious society, its better to abstain than to partake unless you can obtain consent forms in triplicate and on file in the county courthouse before you engage in sex.

Well.. there are a lot of rural areas. So if you give me a clue I can be more specific..... be more specific, man! :w00t:

Jack's Abby is in most beer stores in Rochester. I assume also in Buffalo.

Could not agree more. Here's the thing. If this involves an underage person and he would be aware that this person was underage then any appearance of this person in his house probably won't look good. All I know is I am glad I am just a fan of hockey right now and not the guy who is agreeing to pay him $84 million.

One thing to keep in mind. Hoss referenced surveillance cameras in homes. So, if you run with that just a bit. Let's assume PK has surveillance footage of him and her in the house. That's not going to look good. Video sways minds. Ask Ray Rice.

I think we should be able to agree at least on one takeaway here. We always argue that young players aren't attracted to Buffalo because it lacks a nightlife offering like other big cities. Well, here's Kane, who could go anywhere to be involved in a mess like this finding his way in Buffalo. See.. Buffalo does have everything the big city offers. Frankly, I find it moronic that athletes put themselves in these situations. It doesn't even matter if it ends up being true or not true. If he was at least in a bar, hanging around with someone who appears to be underage, then he's a fool. The rest of it just starts adding more layers and icing to the cake. Of course it's hard not to act like a god when everyone treats you like one.