Peters says Levi has asked to be moved

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

For those looking at Ellis and being happier with him than Levi, once NHL teams have a book on Ellis, he'll have the same problem as Levi. Will he overcome them? That's really the question. 

Ellis is the shiny new car that people haven't noticed the paint chips and road tar on yet.  Will he retain the luster as we see more of him and more importantly as other teams develop book on him?  No data.  Hopefully, because if he does, he either can step up when Lyon starts to falter or even better gives the Sabres one more valuable goaltender to keep or use to bolster another deficiiency. 

But, though he's ahead of Levi on the depth chart now due to contract statuses, there is no guarantee at all he'll still be ahead of Levi on the depth chart when camp opens again (or possibly even sooner).

Edited 6 hours ago by Taro T
Edited for clarity: removed a word that had intended to remove during the original draft of the post.

[PromoTheRobot]

21 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Ellis is the shiny new car that people haven't noticed the paint chips and road tar on yet.  Will he retain the luster as we see more of him and more importantly as other teams develop book on him?  No data.  Hopefully, because if he does, he either can step up when Lyon starts to falter or even better gives the Sabres one more valuable goaltender to keep or use to bolster another deficiiency. 

But, though he's ahead of Levi on the depth chart now due to contract statuses, there is no guarantee at all he'll still be ahead of Levi on the depth chart today when camp opens again (or possibly even sooner).

Correct. There is nothing carved in stone about the Sabres goaltending room in the future. There's a heirarchy right now and waiver rules that impact who can be moved up or down. 

[JP51]

13 hours ago, Weave said:

I don’t think they should move him. At least not this year.  Ellis likely doesn’t clear waivers when the 3 headed monster is resolved.  Levi is important for Rochester whether he likes it or not.

I agree, he just signed a contract, play out this year see if he gets a break into the league if not move him...  Bottom line... another poor Adams trade, what looks like poor development of the asset... or they have just misassessed him and he will go on to have a long productive NHL career like so many other ex Sabres... which one I have no idea...  either way this whole Levi thing is a big disappointment. 

[Cascade Youth]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Ellis is the shiny new car that people haven't noticed the paint chips and road tar on yet.  Will he retain the luster as we see more of him and more importantly as other teams develop book on him?  No data.  Hopefully, because if he does, he either can step up when Lyon starts to falter or even better gives the Sabres one more valuable goaltender to keep or use to bolster another deficiiency. 

But, though he's ahead of Levi on the depth chart now due to contract statuses, there is no guarantee at all he'll still be ahead of Levi on the depth chart when camp opens again (or possibly even sooner).

Watch, Ellis and Lyon will start to falter right after Adams deals Levi for "not wanting to be a Sabre."

[kas23]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

For those looking at Ellis and being happier with him than Levi, once NHL teams have a book on Ellis, he'll have the same problem as Levi. Will he overcome them? That's really the question. 

Unfortunately, the NHL already has a very basic book on UPL. Just shot the puck at him. Soft goals will go in at inopportune times. 

[Drag0nDan]

21 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

Watch, Ellis and Lyon will start to falter right after Adams deals Levi for "not wanting to be a Sabre."

Just let Levi cook in the AHL for another year.  He has no avenue to really do anything - he isn't even on the NHL roster.  

I do wonder what the plan is here though, and I'd imagine Levi is thinking the same thing.  You now have 2 prospects who are at the graduation age, an overpaid UPL, and Lyon who has played well here so far.  1 of Ellis/Levi probably has to go next season, and honestly UPL needs to go as well.    It's tough to do anything quite yet though.  It's a make or break season for the roster as its currently constructed, and poor goaltending was one of the biggest issues last year.  

The guy STL kept over Ellis is currently 1-2 with a .793 sv% and a 5.81 GAA.  Things can take a pretty sharp turn pretty fast.  

5 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Unfortunately, the NHL already has a very basic book on UPL. Just shot the puck at him. Soft goals will go in at inopportune times. 

That and short side.  You look for the cross ice pass, and he cheats and leaves a gap blocker side.  

[inkman]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

I agree, he just signed a contract, play out this year see if he gets a break into the league if not move him...  Bottom line... another poor Adams trade, what looks like poor development of the asset... or they have just misassessed him and he will go on to have a long productive NHL career like so many other ex Sabres... which one I have no idea...  either way this whole Levi thing is a big disappointment. 

I’m no Adams defender but goaltending is witchcraft.  Some kids burst into the league at 20 years old and become all starts. Some guys take until they are 25-28 years old to become a steady NHL goaltender.  Adam’s  (maybe at Pegula’s behest) thrust Levi immediately into NHL duty.  What looked like a promising start to his career (7 games at the end of the 22-23 season) turned into a small sample size projection. They handed him the keys the following season based on those 7 games and it went south quickly.  They tried it again last season and it went worse.  Should we blame poor supporting cast? Probably.  They’ve addressed it somewhat.  I don’t think his development has been bad, it’s just not on the schedule everyone here wanted.  The problem has been having UPL in the fold.  He’s not good. 

[Porous Five Hole]

Just now, Drag0nDan said:

Just let Levi cook in the AHL for another year.  He has no avenue to really do anything - he isn't even on the NHL roster.  

I do wonder what the plan is here though, and I'd imagine Levi is thinking the same thing.  You now have 2 prospects who are at the graduation age, an overpaid UPL, and Lyon who has played well here so far.  1 of Ellis/Levi probably has to go next season, and honestly UPL needs to go as well.    It's tough to do anything quite yet though.  It's a make or break season for the roster as its currently constructed, and poor goaltending was one of the biggest issues last year.  

The guy STL kept over Ellis is currently 1-2 with a .793 sv% and a 5.81 GAA.  Things can take a pretty sharp turn pretty fast.  

The plan was to have UPL & Levi battle for the Buffalo crease in 26-27 and Lyon would be injury insurance and waived after camp. By then, the career backup would be almost 34 and the contract offset for AHL money would keep him cheap if Lyon didn’t get claimed.  And if he did, so what…

I still think that’s the plan. Ellis only figures into the plan if one of UPL or Lyon gets hurt this season and he plays great. Sucks for him, but he is injury insurance only. I think the Sabres are doing him a solid by waiting 30 days to waive him (maybe selfishly to make sure UPL doesn’t get re-injured) to give him a chance to get claimed and stay in the NHL elsewhere. 

[Drag0nDan]

2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The plan was to have UPL & Levi battle for the Buffalo crease in 26-27 and Lyon would be injury insurance and waived after camp. By then, the career backup would be almost 34 and the contract offset for AHL money would keep him cheap if Lyon didn’t get claimed.  And if he did, so what…

I still think that’s the plan. Ellis only figures into the plan if one of UPL or Lyon gets hurt this season and he plays great. Sucks for him, but he is injury insurance only. I think the Sabres are doing him a solid by waiting 30 days to waive him (maybe selfishly to make sure UPL doesn’t get re-injured) to give him a chance to get claimed and stay in the NHL elsewhere. 

Honestly, the guy was always injured his entire development, so it wouldn't shock me if this lingers.  

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What exactly is so unbearable for Levi within the Sabres organization? That he wasn't handed the starters job? That he doesn't want to be associated with a franchise in a long playoff drought? I'm trying to wrap my head around your argument.

The Amerks have been a top team in the AHL for all the years Levi had played there, so he can't be "sick of the losing" as he's a big reason why they are a .700 team. 

Levi’s calculation is the same as it is for most prospects and even established players i.e. where is the best place for him to play. If he believes that he is stuck in a log jam for his position, so if the report of his disgruntlement is true, then seeking a better option is understandable.

The Jack, Reinhart, ROR etc. were somewhat in different situations. They wanted to be untethered to a dysfunctional organization where they believed (accurately) that they would have little success here. The record shows that their assessments were correct. Sad to say but true.

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Levi’s calculation is the same as it is for most prospects and even established players i.e. where is the best place for him to play. If he believes that he is stuck in a log jam for his position, so if the report of his disgruntlement is true, then seeking a better option is understandable.

The Jack, Reinhart, ROR etc. were somewhat in different situations. They wanted to be untethered to a dysfunctional organization where they believed (accurately) that they would have little success here. The record shows that their assessments were correct. Sad to say but true.

Somewhat different situations? I think comparing first line NHL players to a goalie who has shown he doesn’t belong in the NHL yet is not a meaningful exercise. 
 

Unless you’re trying to make a point regarding organizational mismanagement of players? Even then, Levi is still a prospect compared to who you’ve mentioned. And, the Sabres are trying to fix their previous fast-tracking of Levi to the NHL by stapling him in Rochester as long as they possibly can.  So I guess I’m missing it…

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Somewhat different situations? I think comparing first line NHL players to a goalie who has shown he doesn’t belong in the NHL yet is not a meaningful exercise. 
 

Unless you’re trying to make a point regarding organizational mismanagement of players? Even then, Levi is still a prospect compared to who you’ve mentioned. And, the Sabres are trying to fix their previous fast-tracking of Levi to the NHL by stapling him in Rochester as long as they possibly can.  So I guess I’m missing it…

If Levi feels that Ellis and UPL are ahead of him in the positional rankings, then, if true, his desire to move on is understandable. 

[Porous Five Hole]

Just now, JohnC said:

If Levi feels that Ellis and UPL are ahead of him in the positional rankings, then, if true, his desire to move on is understandable. 

Except you have to read the tweet which said “prior to returning to Rochester.” And Ellis wasn’t here then so this is all for naught. 

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

For those looking at Ellis and being happier with him than Levi, once NHL teams have a book on Ellis, he'll have the same problem as Levi. Will he overcome them? That's really the question. 

This is why it's more important to get Ellis game time than it is to get UPL game time. UPL is a known quantity--to us and to the league.  Ellis is not.  If the Sabres are going to manage the asset that is Colten Ellis--whether it be to get exposure for a trade or to see whether he makes UPL expendable--it is imperative that he gets the backup starts.  I don't want to see UPL in net again unless it's an absolute necessity until at least December.

[PASabreFan]

I am being told I'm hearing the story is true. Devon and his lady friend were seated near a whining baby at a Ground Round in Pembroke.

[msw2112]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

He likely believes that he will have a better chance to do so somewhere else. As you are well aware, there is nothing unusual about Sabre players desiring to be liberated from this middling organization.
 

Just think, Levi was the centerpiece return on the Reinhart deal. KA is masterful at out -hustling himself. His managing motto is: one step forward then two steps back. 

I agree with most of this post, but I don't think that Levi was the centerpiece on the Reinhart deal.  The centerpiece return was a 1st round draft pick, which has turned into Kulich.  Levi was a piece of the deal, but more of a throw in because Florida had a glut of goalies, with Bob, Spencer Knight, and I think even Lyon at that point (not sure about the timing on Lyon).  They may have had even another young goalie in the system at the time.  I'm sure that Levi was important to the Sabres at the time, but I don't think he was the centerpiece.

Right now, with Reinhart's success, this looks like a bad deal for the Sabres, but maybe in a few years if Kulich develops into a top flight forward and Levi into a starting goaltender, and Reinhart slows down due to age, it will look better for the Sabres, similar to the O'Reilly trade.  In the early years of that trade, O'Reilly was leading the Blues to the Stanley Cup, while Thompson was struggling to establish himself as an NHL player.  The other guys the Sabres got from St. Louis were beyond busts.  Now, with Thompson being one of the top goal scorers in the league, the trade had aged much better for Buffalo, as O'Reilly is an older player on the downside of his career.  It will be a couple or more years before we'll know.

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I agree with most of this post, but I don't think that Levi was the centerpiece on the Reinhart deal.  The centerpiece return was a 1st round draft pick, which has turned into Kulich.  Levi was a piece of the deal, but more of a throw in because Florida had a glut of goalies, with Bob, Spencer Knight, and I think even Lyon at that point (not sure about the timing on Lyon).  They may have had even another young goalie in the system at the time.  I'm sure that Levi was important to the Sabres at the time, but I don't think he was the centerpiece.

Right now, with Reinhart's success, this looks like a bad deal for the Sabres, but maybe in a few years if Kulich develops into a top flight forward and Levi into a starting goaltender, and Reinhart slows down due to age, it will look better for the Sabres, similar to the O'Reilly trade.  In the early years of that trade, O'Reilly was leading the Blues to the Stanley Cup, while Thompson was struggling to establish himself as an NHL player.  The other guys the Sabres got from St. Louis were beyond busts.  Now, with Thompson being one of the top goal scorers in the league, the trade had aged much better for Buffalo, as O'Reilly is an older player on the downside of his career.  It will be a couple or more years before we'll know.

The players that departed (Eichel, ROR and Reinhart) have their names on The Cup. And those deals have been made more than a few years ago. The Sabres have not been in the playoffs in a generation. I don't care how you calculate the individual deals. Those deals became major subtractions while our so called additions still have not fully materialized yet. Just ask yourself: if we still had Eichel, ROR and Reinhart would the Sabres be a better team than they are now. You can make your own calculation but mine is that we would definitely better without the deals. My attention is on the present and not a couple of more years down the road. Who knows, by then Tage and Dahlin might be demanding to be traded because they are so frustrated about the present. 

[JohnC]

43 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Except you have to read the tweet which said “prior to returning to Rochester.” And Ellis wasn’t here then so this is all for naught. 

It doesn't really matter when it was said (if true). It's still the same disgruntlement over position ranking within the system. 

[matter2003]

25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It doesn't really matter when it was said (if true). It's still the same disgruntlement over position ranking within the system. 

It DOES matter because Levi has had full control to change that HIMSELF  and has repeatedly puked all over himself when given the opportunity.  Not only has he sucked but he has gotten WORSE every chance he has been given. An .878 and 4.12 last year? Is that a joke? That wouldn't even cut it in the era of Grant Fuhr when good goalies were routinely at .900 or lower.

He wants to be mad? Fine. Be mad at your damn self and hold yourself accountable for sucking Saskatchewan Moose C0ck when given the chance to allow them to do something they have been dying to do from Day 1.

[inkman]

12 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

It DOES matter because Levi has had full control to change that HIMSELF  and has repeatedly puked all over himself when given the opportunity.  Not only has he sucked but he has gotten WORSE every chance he has been given. An .878 and 4.12 last year? Is that a joke? That wouldn't even cut it in the era of Grant Fuhr when good goalies were routinely at .900 or lower.

He wants to be mad? Fine. Be mad at your damn self and hold yourself accountable for sucking Saskatchewan Moose C0ck when given the chance to allow them to do something they have been dying to do from Day 1.

A delicacy among Saskatchewanians 

 

 

Only rivaled by Albertan Honey Pot Breast Meat

Edited 3 hours ago by inkman

[msw2112]

34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The players that departed (Eichel, ROR and Reinhart) have their names on The Cup. And those deals have been made more than a few years ago. The Sabres have not been in the playoffs in a generation. I don't care how you calculate the individual deals. Those deals became major subtractions while our so called additions still have not fully materialized yet. Just ask yourself: if we still had Eichel, ROR and Reinhart would the Sabres be a better team than they are now. You can make your own calculation but mine is that we would definitely better without the deals. My attention is on the present and not a couple of more years down the road. Who knows, by then Tage and Dahlin might be demanding to be traded because they are so frustrated about the present. 

I don't disagree with you, but we can't reverse the trades.  They've happened.  So the best we can hope for is some kind of positive outcome down the road.

There's no question that a roster with all those top players (and a good coach) would be much better than what's on the ice today, but again, the horse is out of the barn.  The ship has sailed.  Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart are not going to come walking through that door.  (I'm out of cliches...)  All we can do is hope that things are better for the current team than they've been in the recent past and that the younger players acquired in past deals will ultimately develop and help the team, or be flipped for assets that can help the current team.  A six or seven game stretch is not enough of a sample size to give a definitive answer, but if the team plays the way they have the last 2 weeks for the remainder of the season, they have a good chance of making the playoffs as one of the lower seeds.  They're not a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, but can be competitive.  It's not necessarily better than what could have been, but it may be a step in the right direction given what we've seen in the last few years.  And they still have the 2nd youngest roster in the league, so there's a lot of growth opportunities with the guys they currently have (or, with assets acquired by flipping them for more experienced players).

[JP51]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

I’m no Adams defender but goaltending is witchcraft.  Some kids burst into the league at 20 years old and become all starts. Some guys take until they are 25-28 years old to become a steady NHL goaltender.  Adam’s  (maybe at Pegula’s behest) thrust Levi immediately into NHL duty.  What looked like a promising start to his career (7 games at the end of the 22-23 season) turned into a small sample size projection. They handed him the keys the following season based on those 7 games and it went south quickly.  They tried it again last season and it went worse.  Should we blame poor supporting cast? Probably.  They’ve addressed it somewhat.  I don’t think his development has been bad, it’s just not on the schedule everyone here wanted.  The problem has been having UPL in the fold.  He’s not good. 

I dont know that I all together disagree.. I think where I am at is this kid gets here plays immediately and is pretty much relegated for years...  he was a primary piece of a trade that sent a 50 goal scoring 2 time cup winning top 3 forward away in a trade cause he wouldnt or couldnt pay him... so to me if it is witchcraft, development, needs more time, misused, supporting cast... whatever the case or cases may be (and I think to your point it was a cavalcade of issues... this boils down to a disappointment... especially now that he wants out... and very potentially becomes another nice player the Sabres had that the sent away...  time will tell.... so to me a very bad trade and an even worse situation... and Adams doesnt to me deserve the benefit of the doubt.... 

[inkman]

1 minute ago, JP51 said:

I dont know that I all together disagree.. I think where I am at is this kid gets here plays immediately and is pretty much relegated for years...  he was a primary piece of a trade that sent a 50 goal scoring 2 time cup winning top 3 forward away in a trade cause he wouldnt or couldnt pay him... so to me if it is witchcraft, development, needs more time, misused, supporting cast... whatever the case or cases may be (and I think to your point it was a cavalcade of issues... this boils down to a disappointment... especially now that he wants out... and very potentially becomes another nice player the Sabres had that the sent away...  time will tell.... so to me a very bad trade and an even worse situation... and Adams doesnt to me deserve the benefit of the doubt.... 

Eh, I don't put much stock into what Andrew Peters says. He's motivated financially to post non-sense like this to get clicks and viewers (listeners?).  

[kas23]

2 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The plan was to have UPL & Levi battle for the Buffalo crease in 26-27 and Lyon would be injury insurance and waived after camp. By then, the career backup would be almost 34 and the contract offset for AHL money would keep him cheap if Lyon didn’t get claimed.  And if he did, so what…

I still think that’s the plan. Ellis only figures into the plan if one of UPL or Lyon gets hurt this season and he plays great. Sucks for him, but he is injury insurance only. I think the Sabres are doing him a solid by waiting 30 days to waive him (maybe selfishly to make sure UPL doesn’t get re-injured) to give him a chance to get claimed and stay in the NHL elsewhere. 

I think within these 30 days, he would go back to STL only if he has a NHL roster spot. STL doesn’t have a goalie problem. So, he would probably be waived again and claimed by a different team. 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

It DOES matter because Levi has had full control to change that HIMSELF  and has repeatedly puked all over himself when given the opportunity.  Not only has he sucked but he has gotten WORSE every chance he has been given. An .878 and 4.12 last year? Is that a joke? That wouldn't even cut it in the era of Grant Fuhr when good goalies were routinely at .900 or lower.

He wants to be mad? Fine. Be mad at your damn self and hold yourself accountable for sucking Saskatchewan Moose C0ck when given the chance to allow them to do something they have been dying to do from Day 1.

He played better than UPL the 1st few games of last year, having 2 very good games out of 3 to UPL's 1 good game out of 4; but Ruff still decided to run with UPL after UPL finally had A good game against one of the worst teams in the league.  (And UPL's 1 good game didn't happen until after Levi had a disasterous start against the BJs.)  He'd also played very well at the end of the previous season in the handful of games he'd gotten as Granato was on his way out the door.

Levi was bad when he finally got back in but wasn't horrible, but by then Ruff had already long before made up his mind on who his starter was and when they managed to regrab Reimer, the Amerks net was his; but he'd played well those 1st couple of games when he believed he had an opportunity to win the job after having beaten Reimer out of the top 2 role and having outplayed UPL as well.

UPL played well for a few games after being handed the starter's net, as he'd done in the past (you LIKE UPL, you really, really LIKE UPL) after getting handed the starter's net.   But after losing a game to Minny that he'd personally played great in (as did the rest of the team), the wheels fell off for both UPL and the Sabres.

Also, would agree that Adams has wanted to give the crease to Levi; but Ruff never had any plans to give the net to Levi.  At his B&G I's that 1st summer he was in town, he was talking UPL up hugely with little mention of Levi.  And UPL was the presumptive starter as camp opened both last year and this year.  Had UPL not been broken heading into camp, he would've been the starter and Lyon the backup as was the original plan.