How would you line them up?

[Slack_in_MA]

38 minutes ago, Weave said:

I still grimace every time I see Quinn in a mock lineup.  He so needed to be packaged up for a top 6 vet.

Agree.

And Benson on the top line gives me pause. Fine player, but first line? Not yet, IMHO.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Good question. Has Adams actually talked publicly since Byram signed?

In the postdraft presser, he referenced Timmins as a “cleaner” player, which is what they wanted “in that particular spot in our lineup”.

I think that’s what put the Power partner thought in my head because he’d used similar language earlier when talking about what Power needed in a partner and why he thought Docker did pretty well with Power.

@LGR4GM

check out what Adams says about Power’s partner starting at 47:30ish in the context of what he said about Timmins and what we know of Kesselring’s game.

It explains where I’m coming from

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/topic/sabres-coaches/ruff-and-adams-locker-cleanout-6371704447112

And the last piece is in Adams post July 1 session where he makes reference to having “two big shutdown guys” together as an option for Lindy.

You can squint and call that Timmins and Mule, but to me, that sounds like Mule and Kesselring

Edited 19 hours ago by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'm not sure the opening day lineup matters. it's about who ends up making a positive impact of the NHL roster and who doesn't.  

Last year Adams "revamped" the 4th line to be tougher to play against and 2/3 of that group are gone and the 3rd, Malenstyn is likely the 13th or 14th forward heading into camp.

Last year UPL was coming off a great season with a new big $ deal and of course flopped.

Last year Kulich was slated to spend all of last season helping the Amerks.  Instead he became an impact player for the Sabres.  

The real question is how healthy can a lineup that includes Greenway, Norris, Quinn, and Samuelsson stay? Can guys like Timmins, Johnson and Doan, who have never played a full NHL season, be relied upon?

Who is this year's Kulich?  Östlund? Helenius? Rosen? I wouldn't be surprised by early this season if one of the big Russian D emerge and play in our top 6.

Edited 19 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[Archie Lee]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

My opening night lineup card:

Benson Norris Thompson

Quinn McLeod Tuch

Greenway Kulich Zucker

Danforth Krebs Doan

Byram Dahlin

Power Timmins

Samuelsson Kesselring

Luukkonen

Lyon

Spares: Malenstyn, Jones

 

This is very close to what I would go with. I actually really like the roster, from a talent perspective and from the angle of potential for future success. 

Of that roster though, how many players would you say have most likely already played the best hockey of their careers, or the best that is expected of them?  I would say 5 or 6. Tuch, Zucker, Greenway, Danforth, Lyon. Maybe Thompson. 

Now do the same with the teams that made the playoffs last year. You need to get down to Montreal and Ottawa to get close. That’s great if we are still primarily focused on building for the future, and we are just hoping that this is the year we sneak into WC2. But it’s still a roster built largely on hope. If we are really serious about playoffs, this is the year to better balance the roster. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Archie Lee

[7+6=13]

Unconventional and not going to happen, but I'd like to see the below offense be given a shot at working.  I'd like to find a combo that puts Power on the 3rd pairing until he earns moving up but I don't like he and Samuelsson as left shots together.

 

Benson Thompson Tuch

Quinn Norris Zucker

Greenway McLeod Doan

Danforth Kulich Krebs 

 

Dahlin Kesselring

Byram Timmins

Samuelsson Power 

Luukkonen

Lyon

Spares: Malenstyn, Jones

 

[SABRES 0311]

Zucker Norris TNT

Quinn Kulich Tuch

Greenway McLeod Benson

Malenstyn Krebs Doan

Dahlin Byram

Power Kesselring

Timmins Samuelsson

Edited 10 hours ago by SABRES 0311

[LGR4GM]

Benson - Norris - Tage

Zucker - Kulich/McLeod - Tuch

Quinn - McLeod - Doan

Greenway - Krebs - Danforth

Byram - Dahlin

Power - Kesselring 

Samuelsson - Timmins

[Jorcus]

I see a lot of people putting Quinn on the left wing. He has enough trouble defending on his right to make me think that is not a good idea. My guess is that for now Zucker, Benson, Greenway, Krebs and Kulich are going to rotate up and down the left wing spots. The chances of the opening night line up lasting more than a few games with Ruff is pretty slim. 

 

[Doohickie]

17 hours ago, dudacek said:

My opening night lineup card:

Benson Norris Thompson

Quinn McLeod Tuch

Greenway Kulich Zucker

Danforth Krebs Doan

Byram Dahlin

Power Timmins

Samuelsson Kesselring

Luukkonen

Lyon

Spares: Malenstyn, Jones

 

Danforth?

Jones?

I guess I haven't been following closely this summer.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Danforth?

Jones?

I guess I haven't been following closely this summer.

You were too busy modeling your legs at the car dealership to be aware. 😃

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Jorcus said:

I see a lot of people putting Quinn on the left wing. He has enough trouble defending on his right to make me think that is not a good idea. My guess is that for now Zucker, Benson, Greenway, Krebs and Kulich are going to rotate up and down the left wing spots. The chances of the opening night line up lasting more than a few games with Ruff is pretty slim. 

 

That's why I put him with McLeod and Doan. Quinn likes the offhand side because it is easier to cut into the middle and shoot. With Doan and McLeod, it hides Quinn's defensive issues while giving him a puck carrier in McLeod and a dig it out of the corner in Doan, both of whom are good defenders. I think they want Kulich at center but I could see Krebs getting some time at LW instead of staying on the 4th line since Danforth is here. Greenway to me is almost strictly a 4th line player at this point. He can play PK, and get about 10 other minutes a night on the 4th line while being an adult in the room. I don't need him for more, even if Adams overpaid him. That's my logic at least.

[DarthEbriate]

53 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's why I put him with McLeod and Doan. Quinn likes the offhand side because it is easier to cut into the middle and shoot. With Doan and McLeod, it hides Quinn's defensive issues while giving him a puck carrier in McLeod and a dig it out of the corner in Doan, both of whom are good defenders. I think they want Kulich at center but I could see Krebs getting some time at LW instead of staying on the 4th line since Danforth is here. Greenway to me is almost strictly a 4th line player at this point. He can play PK, and get about 10 other minutes a night on the 4th line while being an adult in the room. I don't need him for more, even if Adams overpaid him. That's my logic at least.

Re: Greenway

In terms of starting lineup, he's a 4W. But, if the team does surprise (frequently leading in the 3rd period), then I see him floating up into top-9 minutes to protect the lead at the expense of Quinn.

At this point, though, he's another double-salary for the production you expect from him on the scoresheet (like Girgs and Okposo before him) even if he fills a role that the team needs: some leadership/experience, muscle, and PK skill.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Jorcus said:

I see a lot of people putting Quinn on the left wing. He has enough trouble defending on his right to make me think that is not a good idea. My guess is that for now Zucker, Benson, Greenway, Krebs and Kulich are going to rotate up and down the left wing spots. The chances of the opening night line up lasting more than a few games with Ruff is pretty slim. 

 

@LGR4GM beat me to it, but Quinn's best offense has come when he and Peterka swapped wings.  Yes, he's more than a bit of a defensive black hole right now, so regardless of which side you're playing him on, you need to give him defensively responsible linemates.

Personally, would rather get the increased offense from him (which could be substantial) being on his off-wing and worry about the slightly worse defensive play (it CAN'T be much worse than it was if he is going to keep a job in the NHL) as it comes.  

Tuch and McLeod/Norris would be defensively responsible and actually give Quinn players with legit offensive chops that might actually get him the puck or be able to do something with it should he get his passing touch back.  Krebs & Greenway would cover for his defensive deficiencies but wouldn't afford him much help in the offensive zone.

[dudacek]

Probably too many summer margaritas, but I feel too comfortable with too many of these line combos and D pairs.

There are still too many unproven pieces but the group feels more balanced in terms of skill sets.

Effectively, it needs a healthy Norris and one of Quinn, Doan, Kulich or Benson to pop before I can say playoffs are possible, but the latter is something I think more likely than not. Fingers crossed on Norris.

Edited 5 hours ago by dudacek

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That's why I put him with McLeod and Doan. Quinn likes the offhand side because it is easier to cut into the middle and shoot. With Doan and McLeod, it hides Quinn's defensive issues while giving him a puck carrier in McLeod and a dig it out of the corner in Doan, both of whom are good defenders..

I had Tuch with Quinn and McLeod for similar reasons. But there’s something really appealing to me about the Doan/Quinn pairing.

This exercise really made me think about trust, in terms of “as a coach, do I trust this guy in this situation?”

Quinn is the guy who burned a lot of trust last year. It’s important that he earns it back because I think in terms of raw skill he is one of our most dangerous forwards

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Probably too many summer margaritas, but I feel too comfortable with too many of these line combos and D pairs.

There are still too many unproven pieces but the group feels more balanced in terms of skill sets.

Effectively, it needs a healthy Norris and one of Quinn, Doan, Kulich or Benson to pop before I can say playoffs are possible, but the latter is something I think more likely than not. Fingers crossed on Norris.

I personally don't think that is the key at all to playoffs. The key is getting even average NHL goaltending. 

[Doohickie]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I personally don't think that is the key at all to playoffs. The key is getting even average NHL goaltending. 

I think Lyon and UPL might be good enough... but they would both have to trend better than they've been in the past.  I think they can but not sure if they will.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I personally don't think that is the key at all to playoffs. The key is getting even average NHL goaltending. 

Getting top 12 goaltending is necessary but not sufficient to making the playoffs.  The Sabres will need more than just that to go right to make them.  Norris staying healthy all year and one of those kids breaking out would go along way towards providing the extra impetus required.  (Broken record alert: fixing the d*mn PP also could do it.  And how a PP with both Dahlin and Thompson on it (2 REALLY good PP players) can be this awful this often for this long is boggling.  It's only been good for one roughly 7 week stretch since O'Reilly left the building.)

[LGR4GM]

44 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Getting top 12 goaltending is necessary but not sufficient to making the playoffs.  The Sabres will need more than just that to go right to make them.  Norris staying healthy all year and one of those kids breaking out would go along way towards providing the extra impetus required.  (Broken record alert: fixing the d*mn PP also could do it.  And how a PP with both Dahlin and Thompson on it (2 REALLY good PP players) can be this awful this often for this long is boggling.  It's only been good for one roughly 7 week stretch since O'Reilly left the building.)

They don't move. Byram mentioned that right after he got here. Tage sits at the half wall, Dahlin moves around the point. There's no high to low or low to high movement of players. They don't rotate around. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They don't move. Byram mentioned that right after he got here. Tage sits at the half wall, Dahlin moves around the point. There's no high to low or low to high movement of players. They don't rotate around. 

That is true.  BUT the question of HOW the PP with both Dahlin and Thompson on it was rhetorical.  

[mjd1001]

I would THINK about, and maybe try in preseason, a line of Doan-Kulich-Tage. 

I think Tage can carry the line offensively and him and Kulich were one of the most dangerous combos in the league when they were together last year.

That leaves Benson-Norris-Tuch....and McLeod-Quinn Zucker.

I think doing that gives you 3 lines to just roll out there in any order, and the 4th line is used situationally.

Which line is the official '1st' line?  I don't care. Whichever line is playing the best, or the one that gives you the best matchups on a given night, they get the most minutes, that can change night-to-night though.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Danforth?

Jones?

I guess I haven't been following closely this summer.

What you didn't see the NHL Network commentary that  Zac Jones is the 2nd coming of Jesus and will propel the Sabres defense to great heights?

Listen starting at 1:13 of the video.

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What you didn't see the NHL Network commentary that  Zac Jones is the 2nd coming of Jesus and will propel the Sabres defense to great heights?

Listen starting at 1:13 of the video.

We haven’t talked much about Jones but he’s a guy I have a great hopes for.

Not to be an impact regular in the Sabres top 6, but to be the guy who finally makes Jacob Bryson redundant.

For the last 2 years, he essentially played the Bryson 7thD role for the Rangers: sat in the press box and got shuffled into the lineup as injury and poor play required.

Unlike Bryson, he actually did pretty well when he got in; he ranked 2nd on his team behind Fox in each of Corsi, GF% and xGF% - above 50% in each and well ahead of Bryson’s bottom-feeding analytics.

Edited 2 hours ago by dudacek

[JohnC]

I didn't see the added commentary that dealt with Jones in a more expanded clip. But the one point they made that I found interesting is that they believed this blueline group is solid or better. I consider that a fair assessment that falls within a reasonable expectation for this unit. The point that they all also made is that this team/franchise has to break through the psychology of losing that has plagued this franchise. It's really important that with its early loaded home schedule that the Sabres start off well. Also, their comments dealing with adding another veteran forward to one of the higher lines is something that is often mentioned by many here. 

[pi2000]

A 10 goal 30 point winger on the top line? lol

Put Tuch in Benson's spot on the 1st line, Zucker in Tuch's spot on line 2, and Benson on line 3 with Greenway and Kulich.