Daily Faceoff - 10 Worst Moves During the Drought

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

What's so dismaying about this owner is the unwillingness to have serious hockey people run the franchise. For the most part, he has clung to second-rate organizational structure staffed by many second-rate hockey people. There is an ingrained stubbornness to TP that is hard to penetrate. The hiring of KA to be his GM was bad enough. But keeping him in that position after 6 yrs is beyond odd. 

Most people are willing to give some forbearance to a new owner in the learning-curve phase after buying the team. However, when you are in your 15th year of ownership and still haven't demonstrated a much better understanding of the business you bought into, then how much can there be left?

Is adding Jarmo to the staff a good sign that he is willing to get away from his insular approach to ownership? I'm not sure because I don't know how much influence he or even Karmonos has. It's become such a drag to watch this same self-sabotaging behavior continue to exist within this failed franchise. 

Yes, hiring Jarmo is a step in the right direction.  He brings in very good experience as a Scouting Direct and as a GM.  He brings in a fresh perspective and respect from the league.  Whether he gets to make an impact or whether he stays is TBD.  

The bigger question is should he be working for Adams?   Seems to me like it should be the other way around.   Jarmo is the GM and Adams is on his staff learning from him - of course that will not happen since Adams has been at the helm for 5+ years now.  

[Doohickie]

16 hours ago, Eleven said:

There is ONE worst move.  There are not ten.  The move was naming Eichel captain instead of O'Reilly.  Everything else, even including goaltending, flows from that.

Once seasoned hockey players saw that the team was in the hands of a immature kid, it was over.

slightly modified it for you.

I think Eich is a more complete person now than he was back then.

[Doohickie]

15 hours ago, inkman said:

 

Reino's relationship with the Sabres was fractured by Kevyn by giving him a one year deal in 2020 instead of locking him up long term.

[Thorny]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

.... and 3 inexperienced GMs later the product is still unwatchable.  How does the rebuild go if someone like Dale Talon had been hired to replace Regier instead of the 3 stooges?  

You are the closest 

anyone trying to dial down the issue to ONE moment is wrong - that’s not even close to having an understanding of the tank, of the issue that has plagued this team, and it’s what most misses the mark 

the central issue with the story of the historical ineptitude of the sabres is that there *CAN’T* have been one solitary issue or decision to make the team this bad, for this long. There is no definitive worst decision. There is no decision that comes *close*, close, to justifying the results we seen. There have been multitude of opportunities to turn the situation around, especially with such low expectations

there is no one worst decision. It’s about the fact they continually appear capable of prioritizing anything but winning

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm trying to think of a list of 10 good moves they made and all I can come up with is the Risto trade and maybe trading for McLeod. 

Closer again 

[SwampD]

52 minutes ago, Thorny said:

You are the closest 

anyone trying to dial down the issue to ONE moment is wrong - that’s not even close to having an understanding of the tank, of the issue that has plagued this team, and it’s what most misses the mark 

the central issue with the story of the historical ineptitude of the sabres is that there *CAN’T* have been one solitary issue or decision to make the team this bad, for this long. There is no definitive worst decision. There is no decision that comes *close*, close, to justifying the results we seen. There have been multitude of opportunities to turn the situation around, especially with such low expectations

there is no one worst decision. It’s about the fact they continually appear capable of prioritizing anything but winning

Closer again 

This is incorrect. Just because one bad decision isn't the reason for the entire drought, one of them can absolutely be the worst among many.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm trying to think of a list of 10 good moves they made and all I can come up with is the Risto trade and maybe trading for McLeod. 

Good is a relative term, but here a few trades or signings with decent to good outcomes (in no particular order)

1. Gaustad for a 1st

2. Vanek for Moulson, a 1st and a 2nd

3. Compher, Zadorov and others for O'Reilly

4. Kane traded for a 1st

5. Nylander for Jokiharju

6-10. Drafting Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark, Dahlin and JJP

11. Signing Zucker

12. Trading Savoie for McLeod

 

[PerreaultForever]

30 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Good is a relative term, but here a few trades or signings with decent to good outcomes (in no particular order)

1. Gaustad for a 1st

2. Vanek for Moulson, a 1st and a 2nd

3. Compher, Zadorov and others for O'Reilly

4. Kane traded for a 1st

5. Nylander for Jokiharju

6-10. Drafting Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark, Dahlin and JJP

11. Signing Zucker

12. Trading Savoie for McLeod

 

You went a little too far back for the first two but I guess. Moulson didn't exactly work out though did he? Who was the 1st? Nylander for Jokiharju is a wash, Neither is here. So it's Nylander for Boston's 4th round pick. Which is really a high first round pick ending up as a 4th round pick. Big fail. 

O'Reilly didn't work out here and just adds to the issues. For all his flaws I think Zadorov would have filled a big need here over the years. Man is a mistake machine but he's also a beast. He wouldn't have stood by when Tage got hit. 

The high picks can't count because anybody and everybody would have done that. It's a reward for failure. Even in that you have the Reinhart Draisaitl debate. Ullmark sure, but we lost him, and yes JJP was a good pick but he's also gone in his prime years. 

Kane should never have been brought here and Zucker is meh. Mid level free agent player who got overpaid. It's fine but it's not an accomplishment. McLeod yes, even if Savoie is good, because we needed help now not later. 

The net loss gain on every season is a loss in terms of moves. If it wasn't we'd be decent and we are not. 

[Eleven]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

slightly modified it for you.

I think Eich is a more complete person now than he was back then.

The decision wasn't made now, though, yeah?  It was made then.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

This is incorrect. Just because one bad decision isn't the reason for the entire drought, one of them can absolutely be the worst among many.

 

Yep.

And if that 1st bad decision doesn't happen, Ruff doesn't get mercy killed.  Regier doesn't get canned midway through the next season.

Change those two decisions, then Rolston never becomes the coach and likely Murray never becomes the GM.

 

There would still be MANY bad decisions even without that initial decision to tank, but they wouldn't have been in position to make soooooo many of those other bad decisions.

It definitively was the worst.  And it wasn't even a part season tank which is what MOST tanking teams do when they decide to blow it all up.  This was a MULTISEASON tank.  That was THE cluster that induced all the other cascading clusters.  

 

And, yes, there wasn't a single cluster that was the full reason why they've gone 14 years without a playoff berth.  But THAT is the big one.  Change any other single one and they MIGHT'VE made the playoffs in the interim.  Change that one and they WOULD HAVE made the playoffs in the interim.  Simple blind squirrel / nut luck would've let it happen at least once.

Edited yesterday at 08:42 PM by Taro T

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

This is incorrect. Just because one bad decision isn't the reason for the entire drought, one of them can absolutely be the worst among many.

 

Good luck finding an objective scale to determine that - it’s a non-salient diversion from the actual issue. There is no one worst decision. 

absolutely a boom period for Xs on this website, I love it - I eagerly await mine on this post from Taro

Edited yesterday at 08:55 PM by Thorny

[Doohickie]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The decision wasn't made now, though, yeah?  It was made then.

Right, which is why I said "immature".  The time phasing is important.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Right, which is why I said "immature".  The time phasing is important.

He’s also wrong outright 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

The sort of journalism I really dislike. 

^

[mjd1001]

I don't think their drafting, especially in the first round, has been awful. Yeah, they could have made some better picks, but that is true with anyone.  Its not like year after year they have been picking a player who turns out to be a bust AND in the next guy or two there is someone THAT much better.   And even if there was/is someone that turns out to be better, a lot of that might be just as much development once you draft them than the wrong pick. They Nylander pick was really the only first round pick that ended up being really bad compared to what else was out there.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think their drafting, especially in the first round, has been awful. Yeah, they could have made some better picks, but that is true with anyone.  Its not like year after year they have been picking a player who turns out to be a bust AND in the next guy or two there is someone THAT much better.   And even if there was/is someone that turns out to be better, a lot of that might be just as much development once you draft them than the wrong pick. They Nylander pick was really the only first round pick that ended up being really bad compared to what else was out there.

Maybe.  Personally, believe their drafting has been bad because until the last year or 2 they've ALWAYS tried to find that true diamond in the rough with their late round picks and even some of their bonus early picks (Rosen, the goalie @LGR4GM and @Brawndo despise, etc.).  It's cool that they reach for those sort of players some of the time; but not EVERY time.  (And again, they seem to have gotten out of that habit a bit in the last couple of years.)

Yes, occassionally, you will find the Datsyuk or even the less impressive Olofsson swinging for the fences in the late rounds.  But the team could use grinders too, and taking some (not entirely, but some) guys that look like they'll grade out to bottom 6 if all goes well but have the temprament and build for that game might result in them having more home grown fill out the roster guys than potentially just Kozak.

 

Because sometimes those guys that look like bottom 6 end up middle 6.  And the Sabres could use a lot more of them with mean.