What do we think of the Sabres defence corps?

[dudacek]

There is not a lot of things to feel good about right now as a Sabres fan.

Could this be one?

• Power 6’6 226
• Kesselring 6’5 215
• Samuelsson 6’4 227
• Timmins 6’3 213
• Dahlin 6’3 204
• Byram 6’1 205

These guys range from pretty good to elite in their skating ability.

No one is small. No one is slow.

Five of them had enough skill to be picked in the top 32 picks of the NHL draft, 3 were the first defencemen taken, 1 is a top 4 defenceman in the league and the best to ever wear blue and gold.

All of them are young enough to say that their best hockey is ahead of them.

All of them are old enough to say that they’ve been around the block a few times.

They’ve got balance and flexibility in terms of where they slot, utility and skill sets.

They all have reasons to be highly motivated.

On paper, the pieces seem to fit.

It’s been so long since we’ve had a good defence corps I probably forget what one looks like.

But can this be it?

Can we actually have something good?

Or are Lindy Ruff and Marty Wilford going to drive these guys into Lake Erie?

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There is not a lot of things to feel good about right now as a Sabres fan.

Could this be one?

• Power 6’6 226
• Kesselring 6’5 215
• Samuelsson 6’4 227
• Timmins 6’3 213
• Dahlin 6’3 204
• Byram 6’1 205

These guys range from pretty good to elite in their skating ability.

No one is small. No one is slow.

Five of them had enough skill to be picked in the top 32 picks of the NHL draft, 3 were the first defencemen taken, 1 is a top 4 defenceman in the league and the best to ever wear blue and gold.

All of them are young enough to say that their best hockey is ahead of them.

All of them are old enough to say that they’ve been around the block a few times.

They’ve got balance and flexibility in terms of where they slot, utility and skill sets.

They all have reasons to be highly motivated.

On paper, the pieces seem to fit.

It’s been so long since we’ve had a good defence corps I probably forget what one looks like.

But can this be it?

Can we actually have something good?

Or are Lindy Ruff and Marty Wilford going to drive these guys into Lake Erie?

The top 4 are good to excellent D-men (or would be if given a legit system to play in now that they are all at least close to their prime if not actually in it).  The 5 and 6 should be able to be good in a good system but both have been hit or miss in the past.

Would be happy with this D if somebody other than Wilford was directing them.

On paper it is better than they've had since Montour was a Sabre.  And it COULD be significantly better than that.  Expecting coaching will hold them back.

Wanted improved coaching, D, F's, and GTing.  Provided Byram isn't traded, this is the one unit that did actually substantially improve on paper.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There is not a lot of things to feel good about right now as a Sabres fan.

Could this be one?

• Power 6’6 226
• Kesselring 6’5 215
• Samuelsson 6’4 227
• Timmins 6’3 213
• Dahlin 6’3 204
• Byram 6’1 205

These guys range from pretty good to elite in their skating ability.

No one is small. No one is slow.

Five of them had enough skill to be picked in the top 32 picks of the NHL draft, 3 were the first defencemen taken, 1 is a top 4 defenceman in the league and the best to ever wear blue and gold.

All of them are young enough to say that their best hockey is ahead of them.

All of them are old enough to say that they’ve been around the block a few times.

They’ve got balance and flexibility in terms of where they slot, utility and skill sets.

They all have reasons to be highly motivated.

On paper, the pieces seem to fit.

It’s been so long since we’ve had a good defence corps I probably forget what one looks like.

But can this be it?

Can we actually have something good?

Or are Lindy Ruff and Marty Wilford going to drive these guys into Lake Erie?

We shall see but Wilford driving them into Lake Erie seems likely. 

[Happy Days]

3 of our defensemen were drafted as the top defensemen in their draft year.

Dahlin 1st in 2018

Byram 4th in 2019

Power 1st in 2021

There is the potential to have a dominant defensive core. if the development can get them there.

[Weave]

Man, last season I said I was more concerned with the forward group than the defense. They let me down. They played alot worse as a group than I expected.

This season, show me, Im from Missouri.

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There is not a lot of things to feel good about right now as a Sabres fan.

Could this be one?

• Power 6’6 226
• Kesselring 6’5 215
• Samuelsson 6’4 227
• Timmins 6’3 213
• Dahlin 6’3 204
• Byram 6’1 205

These guys range from pretty good to elite in their skating ability.

No one is small. No one is slow.

Five of them had enough skill to be picked in the top 32 picks of the NHL draft, 3 were the first defencemen taken, 1 is a top 4 defenceman in the league and the best to ever wear blue and gold.

All of them are young enough to say that their best hockey is ahead of them.

All of them are old enough to say that they’ve been around the block a few times.

They’ve got balance and flexibility in terms of where they slot, utility and skill sets.

They all have reasons to be highly motivated.

On paper, the pieces seem to fit.

It’s been so long since we’ve had a good defence corps I probably forget what one looks like.

But can this be it?

Can we actually have something good?

Or are Lindy Ruff and Marty Wilford going to drive these guys into Lake Erie?

If we can get some consistent goaltending the picture looks much more promising. Possible flicker of hope? 

[Mr Peabody]

Power and Muel need to really ratchet up their games before I’m sold.  Really like the addition of Kesselring hope he rubs off on them. Don’t know a thing about Timmins.  

[HumanSlinky39]

There's potential. I think Kesselring will be a nice addition. Dahlin is elite. Power needs to show strides this year; I thought he took a pretty big step back last season. His injury was very unfortunate because he really needed to put in work this summer. Timmins should be serviceable. Byram is fine, good puck mover, meh defensively. I just assume Samuelsson is going to miss about 40 games and be underwhelming when he does play.

All in all, I think there's a decent chance they're better as a group than last year, but who the hell knows.

[JohnC]

The most intriguing player for me on the blueline is Samuelsson. It would be a terrific redemption story for a player who has received a lot of criticism, most of it deserved. He's not a banger and because of it he is targeted for scorn because he is a big fellow. He's best when he plays a simple game of getting the puck out of his zone. It would be such a bonus if he can come close to what originally expected of him which was probably too high. 

[CallawaySabres]

I can’t mentally get to the place where I actually think any part of this team will be good. I will believe it when I see it.

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

There is not a lot of things to feel good about right now as a Sabres fan.

Could this be one?

• Power 6’6 226
• Kesselring 6’5 215
• Samuelsson 6’4 227
• Timmins 6’3 213
• Dahlin 6’3 204
• Byram 6’1 205

These guys range from pretty good to elite in their skating ability.

No one is small. No one is slow.

Five of them had enough skill to be picked in the top 32 picks of the NHL draft, 3 were the first defencemen taken, 1 is a top 4 defenceman in the league and the best to ever wear blue and gold.

All of them are young enough to say that their best hockey is ahead of them.

All of them are old enough to say that they’ve been around the block a few times.

They’ve got balance and flexibility in terms of where they slot, utility and skill sets.

They all have reasons to be highly motivated.

On paper, the pieces seem to fit.

It’s been so long since we’ve had a good defence corps I probably forget what one looks like.

But can this be it?

Can we actually have something good?

Or are Lindy Ruff and Marty Wilford going to drive these guys into Lake Erie?

Dang you for giving me a reason to drink some hopium. I’m excited about Kess and equally excited to push Muel to the third pair. 
 

Dahlin/Byram

Power/Kess

Mix and match the rest for 14 min a night with protected zone starts.  
 

The blue line is a legit improvement.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

The blueline is Dahlin, a bunch of maybes, and some less then maybes.   There are still 6 rostered D (with Byram) that are mediocre or less defensively.  Neither Timmins or Kesselring are true shutdown D.  Both played about 17 1/2 minutes per game last season and started their shifts 55% of the time in the O Zone.  Neither is very physical despite their size and Kesselring doesn't kill penalties.  Timmins, to his credit, started played the PK this past season for the first time in his career.  

Byram, Samuelsson and Power still stink defensively and with Wilford as coach I'm not expecting any improvement.  In fact, both Samuelsson and Power have regressed since Wilford became the coach.  

This D group, while offensively talented, big and better balanced (R vs L), is less physical than last year and still a black hole defensively.  I don't expect any real improvement in goals against unless the goalies play out of their minds.  

Sorry, but the genius Kevyn Adams has sold everyone that Kesselring and Timmins are defensive improvements over the replaced Joki and Clifton. If they are it's nominal.  

[Flashsabre]

[Thorny]

Good 

[LGR4GM]

Changed up hits and blocks to be per 82 games (/82) played so it normalizes across all of these dudes.

 

Rasmus Dahlin: 509 games, 360pts, -58, 103 blk/82 blocks, 124hits/82, +11.4relcf%, +17.9xgf and is 25

Timmins: 159 games, 46pts, +21, 86 blk/82, 71 hits/82, 2.2relcf%, +16.5xgf and he will be 27 when the season starts

Power: 242 games, 111pts, +8, 108 blk/82, 34 hits/82, 0.5relcf%, -21.4xgf and is 22 turning 23 in November

Kesselring: 156 games, 53pts, +14, 70 blk/82, 108 hits/82, 3.6relcf%, +8.4xgf and is 25

Byram: 246 games, 110pts, +26, 104 blk/82, 112 hits/82, -1.7relcf%, -5.9xgf and just turned 24

Bryson: 254 games, 43pts, -38, 89 blk/82, 49 hits/82, -4.7relcf%, -31.6xgf and will be 28 in November

Samuelsson: 212 games, 43pts, +3, 132 blk/82, 169 hits/82, -10.8relcf%, -26xgf and he's 25

--------------------------------

Jokiharju: 407 games, 97pts, -17, 87 blk/82, 90 hits/82, -3.6relcf%, -37xgf and he's 26

Clifton: 384 games, 77pts, +43, 110 blk/82, 217 hits/82, -7.3relcf%, -14.1xgf and he's 30

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by LGR4GM

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The blueline is Dahlin, a bunch of maybes, and some less then maybes.   There are still 6 rostered D (with Byram) that are mediocre or less defensively.  Neither Timmins or Kesselring are true shutdown D.  Both played about 17 1/2 minutes per game last season and started their shifts 55% of the time in the O Zone.  Neither is very physical despite their size and Kesselring doesn't kill penalties.  Timmins, to his credit, started played the PK this past season for the first time in his career.  

Byram, Samuelsson and Power still stink defensively and with Wilford as coach I'm not expecting any improvement.  In fact, both Samuelsson and Power have regressed since Wilford became the coach.  

This D group, while offensively talented, big and better balanced (R vs L), is less physical than last year and still a black hole defensively.  I don't expect any real improvement in goals against unless the goalies play out of their minds.  

Sorry, but the genius Kevyn Adams has sold everyone that Kesselring and Timmins are defensive improvements over the replaced Joki and Clifton. If they are it's nominal.  

Most people would agree with you that this unit is not a shutdown group. As you describe, it’s not constructed to be that caliber of defensemen. However, that’s not the measuring stick. The issue is whether thus group is better defensively than previous units. I would say yes. And is this group compared to previous groups better in transitioning to the offensive zone? I again would say yes. The bottom line for me is that getting better is preferable than not doing so. 
 

The more critical issue for me is what caliber of goaltending are we going to get. I don’t really know.

[Night Train]

Come on. Power and Muel are scared of their own shadow. They might as well be 5'6. 

[GoPuckYourself]

Dahlin is a solid all around defensemen.

Byram I wasn't impressed with, sometimes he looked like he could be on Dahlin's level and sometimes he looked like he belonged on the 3rd pairing, very inconsistent. I don't need every guy to throw around the body but I was wanting more.

Power is good offensively but is terrible on defense, how can you be a defensemen and literally suck at the part that's in your job title? I'm not a fan at all.

Micahel Kesselring seems like a great fit, since I didn't watch many Utah games at all I've been watching Youtube videos and he looks exactly what we needed, a big, rugged, hitting, fighting, stand up for your teammates, defensive defensemen.

Samuelsson is definitely regressing, he should be what Kesselring is by now but he doesn't score, doesn't hit, doesn't fight, doesn't stick up for teammates, doesn't play defense well which makes him a perfect fit for what the Sabres are.

Timmins is going on his 6th team now since 2019, he offers absolutely 0 offense, he's a plus player which is good, he seems to be a slight defensive upgrade from Clifton but it comes with the expense of hitting. Essentially everything I'm reading is that he's connor Clifton without the toughness or hitting so why didn't we just keep Jacob Bernard-Docker?

We didn't do enough on defense imo, not even close. Samuelsson should be gone either by trade or buyout (Samuelsson should have been dealt along with a 2nd to Pittsburgh). This team operates like it's been to the Stanley Cup finals each season yet with only minimum upgrades. Why not go out and find the best 3rd pairing defensive defensmen to pair with Timmins and trade Samuelsson or buy him out? If Byram comes in at a bargain and we don't spend some money anywhere else then this was obviously just a cost cutting year again for Buffalo.

My solution would be to trade Byram and get your top 6 forward and use our 1st (protected) next year and go out and get a guy like Rasmus Anderson (but sign him before he comes here) who from what I have seen and read is about the same player as Byram but I must say that -38 last year looks really nasty for Anderson, I don't know why his line was scored on so drastically but I think him paired with Dahlin would help out alot.

Edited 1 hour ago by GoPuckYourself

[TheAud]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

Or are Lindy Ruff and Marty Wilford going to drive these guys into Lake Erie?

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Changed up hits and blocks to be per 82 games (/82) played so it normalizes across all of these dudes.

 

Rasmus Dahlin: 509 games, 360pts, -58, 103 blk/82 blocks, 124hits/82, +11.4relcf%, +17.9xgf and is 25

Timmins: 159 games, 46pts, +21, 86 blk/82, 71 hits/82, 2.2relcf%, +16.5xgf and he will be 27 when the season starts

Power: 242 games, 111pts, +8, 108 blk/82, 34 hits/82, 0.5relcf%, -21.4xgf and is 22 turning 23 in November

Kesselring: 156 games, 53pts, +14, 70 blk/82, 108 hits/82, 3.6relcf%, +8.4xgf and is 25

Byram: 246 games, 110pts, +26, 104 blk/82, 112 hits/82, -1.7relcf%, -5.9xgf and just turned 24

Bryson: 254 games, 43pts, -38, 89 blk/82, 49 hits/82, -4.7relcf%, -31.6xgf and will be 28 in November

Samuelsson: 212 games, 43pts, +3, 132 blk/82, 169 hits/82, -10.8relcf%, -26xgf and he's 25

--------------------------------

Jokiharju: 407 games, 97pts, -17, 87 blk/82, 90 hits/82, -3.6relcf%, -37xgf and he's 26

Clifton: 384 games, 77pts, +43, 110 blk/82, 217 hits/82, -7.3relcf%, -14.1xgf and he's 30

The inclusion of Joker and Clifton is an important summary for folks to stay mindful of.

Kesselring is physical and he's big -- and he won't run around as much to make hits like Clifton did. But he's not some intimidating, bruising force who is going wreck everyone (fewer hits/game than Muel).

Timmins is bigger, but he's less physical and throws fewer hits than Jokiharju did. And Joker was the guy Ruff publicly didn't like and wanted to be more physical (not Power).

This doesn't prevent the defense from dramatically improving from last season -- but the defense more dependent on the forwards and goalies than the changes to the D-corps from last year to this.

 

----

 

And I like it: Everyone's a year older!

[Archie Lee]

With Byram, our D is still a little younger and a little less-experienced than ideal. Also, as a group they lack a bit of needed anger  I remember when Appert coached Samuelsson in Rochester, he described Samuelsson as "nasty to play against".  I took that to mean Samuelsson hit everything, was tough in front of the net, was liberal with use of his stick as a weapon, etc.  If Samuelsson was 50% of what Appert sold him as, it would go a long way to bridging the nastiness shortage that the blueline has. 

That said, with Byram or a good veteran replacement, I like our D.  Their issues, in my opinion, aren't from a lack of talent or courage or development. I think their issues relate to structure and system.  

[LGR4GM]

Here's what I will say about hits. They only capture one form of physicality in the NHL and are not recorded in a regular manner. Zach Benson is credited with 35hits last year but I would not say Zach Benson is not physical. From what I have seen with hits, almost anytime a defender pins a forward along the boards it counts as a hit but all those other physical interactions are lost. I hope the Sabres do a better job of finishing checks and I was shocked to see Clifton's hit totals as I felt he was useless most of the time.

Either way, we are less experienced Defense without Joker and Clifton but with Kesselring and Timmins. If we lose Byram, we become even less experienced and I think experience is one of the most necessary things for a defender in the NHL. Adams has done such a poor job of building the defense prior to this year that Jacob Bryson is 2nd on that defense in games played behind Dahlin. That shows you how bad Adams has been and addressing the defense before now. The funny part is now he is in a total panic over it and is over-addressing it. Kesselring, Timmins, JBD, Mrtka, Bedkowski all added in the last 4 months and I understand 2 are draft picks but thats 5 RHD in as many months. We can see what the focus is. 

Oddly enough in another 3-5 years it could actually pay-off as Mrtka, Bedkowski, Strbak, Kleber, and Komarov mature. Of course pick 3 of the 5 and remember they will play less than 200 NHL games in all likelihood. My money would be on Mrtka, Strbak, and Komarov. Also shoutout to Gavin McCarthy who has a shot and is yet another RHD. The Sabres have taken 6 RHD in the last 3 drafts.