Hockey Heaven? what the Sabres are competing with

[mjd1001]

Maybe this was discussed already, the video is a year old, but I just saw it and found it interesting.

Make the jokes about Palm trees, but when you consider Buffalo is Buffalo, the Sabres need to do BETTER than other teams to get players to want to come here/stay here.

After watching this video...how much more do the Sabres have to pay someone vs a team like Florida (or the other teams that are doing stuff like this) just to be on even gound?

 

[mjd1001]

Apparently a lot of other teams are building new practice facilities that not only have the training facilities but places to relax, places even for their families, and fans...that look to blow away what is offered in those areas at the harborcentre:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3018496/2022/01/06/the-nhls-building-battle-how-pricey-practice-pads-and-locker-rooms-are-reshaping-the-fight-for-free-agents/

A long article, but some key points:

-The race to build the best facilities for players and staff has evolved from a competition among the richest teams to a necessity for all — a battle to boast the most comfortable lounges, the most convenient locations and the highest tech in sports and medical science.

-Players, agents and opposing teams have noticed the league-wide efforts, particularly in newer buildings.

-For any NHL team, the art of the wooing of an unrestricted free agent often includes a visit to the practice facility. While money and term are likely to be the most important factor for a player, multiple NHL agents said the quality of facilities can go a long way in giving that player a snapshot of how they’ll be treated if they sign with a team.

-“For me after the financials, and the city fit, the reputation of an owner is one of the most important things I tell my players to consider, and what that owner’s reputation is for creating first-class services,” an agent said. “You ask what players who have played for them in the past say, but you also look for proof in the facilities.”

-Another agent said the practice facility is an “immediate reflection of how much ownership actually cares about the players.”

-The facility, in Robitaille’s mind, is never finished. He’s always looking for the next project or improvement, typically handled in the offseason. As he gave a tour of the facility in November, he stopped at one point to examine the players’ lounge and wondered aloud whether it could use some bigger windows and if the one wall could be moved to include a patio.

“Embrace that L.A. lifestyle a bit more,” Robitaille said. “That’s something we should talk about doing in this space.”

The Kings have also created synergy between their NHL and AHL teams under one roof. While the AHL Reign play games a 70-minute drive away in Ontario, the minor-league club practices and trains next to the NHL team.

It’s a setup where players never have to worry about moving residences when getting called up, and the equipment staff only has to move equipment through a door connecting the Reign locker room to the Kings’ digs.

The only thing that really changes for a call-up is he gets to park in the reserved VIP lot, as opposed to the public spaces.

 

 

 

[Night Train]

Damn palm trees ! 

[PerreaultForever]

Wasn't that the initial Pegula logic though? Didn't they give them the best locker room in the league (at the time)? Created the country club. 

There's no reason aside from being a loser team for Buffalo to be on the outs. Ontario is right there for all those Canadian players. Living in St. Catherines or Niagara Falls used to be a thing for Sabres players. It should be that way again but players will only want to come is they see that the team is serious about winning. We simply do not look like a team that is trying to win. 

[7+6=13]

20 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Wasn't that the initial Pegula logic though? Didn't they give them the best locker room in the league (at the time)? Created the country club. 

There's no reason aside from being a loser team for Buffalo to be on the outs. Ontario is right there for all those Canadian players. Living in St. Catherines or Niagara Falls used to be a thing for Sabres players. It should be that way again but players will only want to come is they see that the team is serious about winning. We simply do not look like a team that is trying to win. 

Why would Pegula need to give them the country club, when we were already a place players wanted to come?

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

Why would Pegula need to give them the country club, when we were already a place players wanted to come?

I know you're being funny but at the time he thought he could make it a top destination. I wouldn't be surprised if for years he's thought "why don't they want to come here I don't understand?"

[7+6=13]

13 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I know you're being funny but at the time he thought he could make it a top destination. I wouldn't be surprised if for years he's thought "why don't they want to come here I don't understand?"

Players have largely never wanted to come.  He tried, it didn't work. Hint, it wasn't the losing.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

Players have largely never wanted to come.  He tried, it didn't work. Hint, it wasn't the losing.

It's a myth. Players wanted to be here in the good old days. It was a good hockey market. The losing started after Lucic broke the franchise and it's never recovered. Now it's a joke. 

[FrenchConnection44]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's a myth. Players wanted to be here in the good old days. It was a good hockey market. The losing started after Lucic broke the franchise and it's never recovered. Now it's a joke. 

But even without the losing that was the good old days as you say. Now with teams with tons of money in places like Tampa and Miami, and even Carolina,  Dallas, etc., and with state of the art facilities, those are no longer vacation spots but where players are able to live. 

Add to that the fact that Florida (Texas is the same deal) has no state income tax and if you are signing a quality player he’s going to be in the 10% state tax range for NY. So at minimum you are going to have to beat an offer from teams in those states over 10% higher just to be even.
 

To say nothing of the facilities and lifestyle. There is just no way to compete unless Pegula puts the kind of effort into the Sabres org that he has into the Bills org. Both facilities and management. As it is he treats the Sabres like a step child he has to tolerate. 

[Eleven]

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Wasn't that the initial Pegula logic though? Didn't they give them the best locker room in the league (at the time)?

Yes.  And it's impossible to renovate every year and remain the best.  Anyone who's watched the Dahlin tour video knows that the facility is hardly subpar even today.

[Brawndo]

Here is Dahlin giving a tour of the Sabres Facility to a member of the Swedish Media

 

https://youtu.be/s86np1JWqww?si=wO_nAF_DjkV90A1j

[JohnC]

If the organization can get it together and be a relevant team this would be an appealing destination for a lot of players, of course not all. One of the biggest advantages that Buffalo has is its proximity to southern Ontario and Toronto, an area where many players come from and reside in the offseason. Right now, our reputation for dysfunction is deeply ingrained and acknowledged in the hockey world. The only way that this accurate perception is going to change is for this franchise to be run more professionally. The owner has to show more urgency that he will do what he has to do to turn things around and make this franchise more appealing. 

[LGR4GM]

28 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here is Dahlin giving a tour of the Sabres Facility to a member of the Swedish Media

 

https://youtu.be/s86np1JWqww?si=wO_nAF_DjkV90A1j

The Sabres have pretty decent facilities and that's not counting having harbor center. 

Also Rasmus' Wagoneer is nice. 

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If the organization can get it together and be a relevant team this would be an appealing destination for a lot of players, of course not all. One of the biggest advantages that Buffalo has is its proximity to southern Ontario and Toronto, an area where many players come from and reside in the offseason. Right now, our reputation for dysfunction is deeply ingrained and acknowledged in the hockey world. The only way that this accurate perception is going to change is for this franchise to be run more professionally. The owner has to show more urgency that he will do what he has to do to turn things around and make this franchise more appealing. 

What's interesting is there's an interview with Zucker where he basically shoots down the narrative players think Buffalo is a bad org.

[EM88]

35 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here is Dahlin giving a tour of the Sabres Facility to a member of the Swedish Media

 

https://youtu.be/s86np1JWqww?si=wO_nAF_DjkV90A1j

The facilities in Buffalo are ok, good enough, but they are falling way behind in the 'wow' factor compared to what other teams have.  And again, in a salary cap league where you have limited funding, those Buffalo facilities are 'nice enough' if you are here, but they are not going to win out over a lot of what other teams are doing.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, EM88 said:

The facilities in Buffalo are ok, good enough, but they are falling way behind in the 'wow' factor compared to what other teams have.  And again, in a salary cap league where you have limited funding, those Buffalo facilities are 'nice enough' if you are here, but they are not going to win out over a lot of what other teams are doing.

Such as? What do other teams have that we're missing? 

I don't think facilities being Vegas new or Detroit new is the biggest selling point. If it were free agents would never sign in some places. 

[Gatorman0519]

I live in Panther country. Absolutely amazing how this team has turned around the past several years. They’ve spent a lot of time on the fan experience as well. The arena is in a beautiful area and is very affordable to go to games. We went to a few playoff games last year and the crowd was as passionate as anywhere else. Great time. Ofc they get heat they have no fans but it’s not true. They were just in a ten year period of horrible hockey like we are now… and nobody goes to Buffalo games and it’s a crappy dead arena and fan experience.  Going to be quite difficult to turn the Sabres around. 

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Such as? What do other teams have that we're missing? 

I don't think facilities being Vegas new or Detroit new is the biggest selling point. If it were free agents would never sign in some places. 

Watch the video, read the article.  How 'nice' the practice facilities are, how much room, how many things (lounges, golf cart parking etc) are not NEEDED for a good hockey team, but it certainly can be something a 20-something year old millionaire might prefer when making a decision where to sign.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The Sabres have pretty decent facilities and that's not counting having harbor center. 

Also Rasmus' Wagoneer is nice. 

What's interesting is there's an interview with Zucker where he basically shoots down the narrative players think Buffalo is a bad org.

The more telling indicator is the number of players who have Buffalo on their no trade clauses. 
 

Pro players are competitive by nature. A franchise that can’t qualify to make the playoffs in nearly a generation certainly makes this location less appealing for many players if given a choice.

It  need not be that way because this location does have many attractive assets.

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I live in Panther country. Absolutely amazing how this team has turned around the past several years. They’ve spent a lot of time on the fan experience as well. The arena is in a beautiful area and is very affordable to go to games. We went to a few playoff games last year and the crowd was as passionate as anywhere else. Great time. Ofc they get heat they have no fans but it’s not true. They were just in a ten year period of horrible hockey like we are now… and nobody goes to Buffalo games and it’s a crappy dead arena and fan experience.  Going to be quite difficult to turn the Sabres around. 

All we need is our own Bill Zito for a GM and we'll be set.

[LGR4GM]

57 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Watch the video, read the article.  How 'nice' the practice facilities are, how much room, how many things (lounges, golf cart parking etc) are not NEEDED for a good hockey team, but it certainly can be something a 20-something year old millionaire might prefer when making a decision where to sign.

Why would Buffalo have golf cart parking? 

Players don't become ufas until 26, if Buffalo were winning, ppl would come here. This is just a distraction. 

[Gatorman0519]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why would Buffalo have golf cart parking? 

Players don't become ufas until 26, if Buffalo were winning, ppl would come here. This is just a distraction. 

True to an extent, but I don't think we can completely dismiss it. The city you live in has a lot to do with it. Plus, Florida has no state income tax which saves a ton of money.

[7+6=13]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's a myth. Players wanted to be here in the good old days. It was a good hockey market. The losing started after Lucic broke the franchise and it's never recovered. Now it's a joke. 

It's a proven reality.  Remember when a lot of us thought players would want to play with McDavid or Eichel - and we needed a star?  

TP put money into the organization and we started hosting the combined etc.  It didn't work to get players.  TP has tried plenty conceivable things to create a spark.  It hasn't worked.  

Buffalo is a place that critically relies on drafting talent and trading. Then hoping the draft picks develop and some of them and any traded players grow to like the City.  That also hasn't worked.