Buffalo's Forwards as a whole, a poll

[pi2000]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Your options here are *****. Designed to force an answer that gives you a win. 

They will be more successful if the identify which young talent to keep and which to trade. You're so wrong on all this and we have years is proof. What, if we trade Östlund and Samuelsson for a 29yr defender we're gonna lose in round 1 and won't be good for a decade? What a fake set of choices.

We traded Savoie for McLeod, guess we're losing in round 1 instead of being good for a decade. 

Agreed.

I've said it before....  IMO their best course of action is to hire a veteran POHO who can set forth a strategic plan for the franchise.   Identifying the young talent which fits in that plan and filing in with experienced veterans either via trade or free agency.       

I don't trust KA, Terry or anybody else in the current organization to come up with a strategy or execute on a plan.   

Their current plan of "We only want players who want to be here and nobody wants to be here because palm trees and taxes" is pure loser talk.    While true to some degree, as a leader of the franchise, you can't come out and say that publicly.    The message needs to be "Our goal is to win.  Wether or not you really want to be here is irrelevant to us.   We don't care about your feelings, we're in the business of winning.   We're paying you as an employee to play the game up to our standard.   Go whine about the taxes to somebody who cares."

[GoPuckYourself]

Buffalos forward group seem to be skilled offensively but lack any defensive awareness especially in our own end of the ice. Also our situational awareness is terrible. We still lack players who go in front of the net or that battle hard along the boards, still lack players who can throw their bodies around or drop the gloves when called for and it’s been this way all throughout Adams tenure.

Edited yesterday at 06:11 PM by GoPuckYourself

[TheAud]

On 5/18/2025 at 10:23 AM, Thorny said:

G

Is that like A, B, C, D, F....and they are even worse than an F?

Edited yesterday at 06:31 PM by TheAud

[Weave]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m fine with the forward group as is.  It’s not perfect, a few small changes might help, but I like the core of Benson, Tuch, TNT, Kulich, McLeod, Zucker, & JJP. With a healthy Norris so much better.  This is not the area that kept this team from winning. 

I am not sure that the Sabres forwards can hold off collapse until the post season starts.  If one is inclined to point and laugh at the Leafs forwars for collapsing in the middle playoff rounds, how can you not look cross eyed at a Sabres forward group that couldn’t see this through the regular season?

The forward group is skilled enough. It severely lacks guile, grit, and role players.  This forward group is the most talented, least overall effective I can think of.  It needs an enema just as the D and G do.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 5/19/2025 at 2:10 PM, GoPuckYourself said:

Buffalos forward group seem to be skilled offensively but lack any defensive awareness especially in our own end of the ice.

This isn't really accurate any longer.  Zucker, Norris, Tuch, McLeod, Benson, Greenway, Kulich, Kozak and Malenstyn are all solid to excellent defensively.  TNT and Krebs are improved.  JJP is a work in progress, but is no longer a consistent liability.  The forwards' d awareness really isn't an issue any longer.  

Now add that they were 10th in goals (only 2 goals behind the Leafs), 4th in 5 on 5 goals with 185 and 4th with 191 in all EV situations, the offense isn't the issue with this team, except the awful PP which is solvable with better coaching (IMHO).

This past season with had 6 forwards score 20 plus (TNT had 44 and Tuch 36).  We had 2 more score 15 (Quinn& Kulich) and 2 more score 10 (Krebs and Benson).  We have plenty of capable scoring forwards.  Benson and Kulich should continue to improve their scoring given their ages.  

The issue with this team is the 287 GA (4th worst in the NHL) - Bad goaltending and incompetent defensemen.  

Over the last 4 years the Sabres have allowed 287 (25th), 297 (26th), 243 (12th), 287 (29th).  Our 1114 GA over the last 4 years is 7th worst in the NHL over that period while our 1031 GF is 13th best.  

I repeat, the issues with this team are poor defensemen and goaltending.  When Anderson and Reimer are the 2 best goalies over the last 4 years it's easy to ID that problem.  Now add the revolving door of crap D besides Dahlin and that problem is also easy to identify.

Edited 49 minutes ago by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

I am not sure that the Sabres forwards can hold off collapse until the post season starts.  If one is inclined to point and laugh at the Leafs forwars for collapsing in the middle playoff rounds, how can you not look cross eyed at a Sabres forward group that couldn’t see this through the regular season?

The forward group is skilled enough. It severely lacks guile, grit, and role players.  This forward group is the most talented, least overall effective I can think of.  It needs an enema just as the D and G do.

I disagree.  We have seen considerable turnover at forward the last 3 years to get to a better group.  They aren't nearly as soft and they are much much better defensively.  Gone are Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, VO, KO, Girgensons, Jost, Eakin, Hinostroza, Bjork, and Asplund and honestly we are better for it.  Guys like Greenway, Benson, Kulich, Zucker and Norris (when healthy), play with much more grit, guille and defense than the guys listed above.  

Until we fix the D and G, we honestly won't know how the forwards will stand up in the playoffs.  That said Tuch was solid in his playoff games with LV.  

[DarthEbriate]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I repeat, the issues with this team are poor defensemen and goaltending.  When Anderson and Reimer are the 2 best goalies over the last 4 years it's easy to ID that problem.  Now add the revolving door of crap D besides Dahlin and that problem is also easy to identify.

The forwards also play defense. But the D-corps is too young. If they wait until Dahlin is in his 2nd to last year of his contract, then Power will finally be entering his prime. But therein lies the problem. That’s the plan. That’s it: lock them up long term and eventually Power will be good enough to warrant the long term deal because you’ll have 2 ice-tilting D-men skating 50 minutes every regular season game and more in playoffs.

There is no rush to get to the playoffs before then. There is no goalie plan to be in the playoffs in the next two seasons. It’s just wait and see. That’s the plan. And if that fails because Ottawa becomes a juggernaut… or if Levi isn’t Miller or better… then GMKA and Darth Pegulas the Wise have no other workaround except to blow it up again because Dahlin and TNT will request out.

[GoPuckYourself]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This isn't really accurate any longer.  Zucker, Norris, Tuch, McLeod, Benson, Greenway, Kulich, Kozak and Malenstyn are all solid to excellent defensively.  TNT and Krebs are improved.  JJP is a work in progress, but is no longer a consistent liability.  The forwards' d awareness really isn't an issue any longer.  

Now add that they were 10th in goals (only 2 goals behind the Leafs), 4th in 5 on 5 goals with 185 and 4th with 191 in all EV situations, the offense isn't the issue with this team, except the awful PP which is solvable with better coaching (IMHO).

This past season with had 6 forwards score 20 plus (TNT had 44 and Tuch 36).  We had 2 more score 15 (Quinn& Kulich) and 2 more score 10 (Krebs and Benson).  We have plenty of capable scoring forwards.  Benson and Kulich should continue to improve their scoring given their ages.  

The issue with this team is the 287 GA (4th worst in the NHL) - Bad goaltending and incompetent defensemen.  

Over the last 4 years the Sabres have allowed 287 (25th), 297 (26th), 243 (12th), 287 (29th).  Our 114 GA over the last 4 years is 7th worst in the NHL over that period while our 1031 GF is 13th best.  

I repeat, the issues with this team are poor defensemen and goaltending.  When Anderson and Reimer are the 2 best goalies over the last 4 years it's easy to ID that problem.  Now add the revolving door of crap D besides Dahlin and that problem is also easy to identify.

Norris has played in 3 games so I won't count him as being anything until he actually suits up for us, Kulich/Malenstyn/Krebs/Kozak are hardly great defensively. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Norris has played in 3 games so I won't count him as being anything until he actually suits up for us, Kulich/Malenstyn/Krebs/Kozak are hardly great defensively. 

Based on his history, he'll play about 60 games for us next season.   I disagree with your characterization of Kulich, Kozak and even Malenstyn.  All 3 are solid defensively;  Kozak especially so.  The reason Kozak is even getting a shot in the NHL is because he plays 2 way hockey and does the dirty work teams need.  Kulich for a rookie in the NHL, has a very developed 2 way game.  

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This isn't really accurate any longer.  Zucker, Norris, Tuch, McLeod, Benson, Greenway, Kulich, Kozak and Malenstyn are all solid to excellent defensively.  TNT and Krebs are improved.  JJP is a work in progress, but is no longer a consistent liability.  The forwards' d awareness really isn't an issue any longer.  

Now add that they were 10th in goals (only 2 goals behind the Leafs), 4th in 5 on 5 goals with 185 and 4th with 191 in all EV situations, the offense isn't the issue with this team, except the awful PP which is solvable with better coaching (IMHO).

This past season with had 6 forwards score 20 plus (TNT had 44 and Tuch 36).  We had 2 more score 15 (Quinn& Kulich) and 2 more score 10 (Krebs and Benson).  We have plenty of capable scoring forwards.  Benson and Kulich should continue to improve their scoring given their ages.  

The issue with this team is the 287 GA (4th worst in the NHL) - Bad goaltending and incompetent defensemen.  

Over the last 4 years the Sabres have allowed 287 (25th), 297 (26th), 243 (12th), 287 (29th).  Our 114 GA over the last 4 years is 7th worst in the NHL over that period while our 1031 GF is 13th best.  

I repeat, the issues with this team are poor defensemen and goaltending.  When Anderson and Reimer are the 2 best goalies over the last 4 years it's easy to ID that problem.  Now add the revolving door of crap D besides Dahlin and that problem is also easy to identify.

That second sentence is in no way shape or form true. "solid to excellent"? Your bar is way way way too low. I cannot recall a good back checking forward group on this team since Pegula bought it. It's just not what they do, and then the D runs around trying to do too much. We want to be the Leafs but we aren't as good but also have the same issues only magnified. 

Take the Seth Jones goal as an example. Carlo was left back and some fans are attacking the trade and blaming him for being crap D but the reason it happens is Reilly thinks he can make an offensive play and tries to jump the gap for a quick attack. He shouldn't have. Carlo was hung out to dry. That sort of thing happens to the Sabres all the time as we promote all this quick exit puck mover stuff and it doesn't work and never has worked but we stick with it cause that's Terry's vision, just like Shanahan and Dubas's, going to redefine hockey with speed and skill. They never learn. 

Do we need better D? Absolutely. We need some rock solid defenders. Do we need better goaltending? Absolutely. Consistent at bare minimum. Will adding a goalie and a D man fix this team and get us in the playoffs? Not a chance. Not until the forwards get some balls and all start playing with Benson's attitude. Fearless and aggressive. Until then we will be a middling at best perimeter and possession team that likes to shoot from a distance. 

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That second sentence is in no way shape or form true. "solid to excellent"? Your bar is way way way too low. I cannot recall a good back checking forward group on this team since Pegula bought it. It's just not what they do, and then the D runs around trying to do too much. We want to be the Leafs but we aren't as good but also have the same issues only magnified. 

Take the Seth Jones goal as an example. Carlo was left back and some fans are attacking the trade and blaming him for being crap D but the reason it happens is Reilly thinks he can make an offensive play and tries to jump the gap for a quick attack. He shouldn't have. Carlo was hung out to dry. That sort of thing happens to the Sabres all the time as we promote all this quick exit puck mover stuff and it doesn't work and never has worked but we stick with it cause that's Terry's vision, just like Shanahan and Dubas's, going to redefine hockey with speed and skill. They never learn. 

Do we need better D? Absolutely. We need some rock solid defenders. Do we need better goaltending? Absolutely. Consistent at bare minimum. Will adding a goalie and a D man fix this team and get us in the playoffs? Not a chance. Not until the forwards get some balls and all start playing with Benson's attitude. Fearless and aggressive. Until then we will be a middling at best perimeter and possession team that likes to shoot from a distance. 

Fixing gt alone would have put us in the playoffs last year. UPL was a sieve.

[GoPuckYourself]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Based on his history, he'll play about 60 games for us next season.   I disagree with your characterization of Kulich, Kozak and even Malenstyn.  All 3 are solid defensively;  Kozak especially so.  The reason Kozak is even getting a shot in the NHL is because he plays 2 way hockey and does the dirty work teams need.  Kulich for a rookie in the NHL, has a very developed 2 way game.  

Agree to disagree.

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Fixing gt alone would have put us in the playoffs last year. UPL was a sieve.

I'm not so sure about that, UPL the 2nd half of the season before we gave him the contract was playing at a very high level and we still didn't make it. Maybe if we had a goalie who played like that all season long perhaps but that would be requiring a top of the line goalie which I'm not sure will be available.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I'm not so sure about that, UPL the 2nd half of the season before we gave him the contract was playing at a very high level and we still didn't make it. Maybe if we had a goalie who played like that all season long perhaps but that would be requiring a top of the line goalie which I'm not sure will be available.

That's because our scoring was down. If we scored the same and UPL wasn't a bottom tier goalie this season, we're where Montreal and Ottawa ended up. 

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

That's because our scoring was down. If we scored the same and UPL wasn't a bottom tier goalie this season, we're where Montreal and Ottawa ended up. 

Perhaps, we may never find out.

[Doohickie]

  From the JJP thread

26 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I don’t know if there is another level to his game

I think this applies to all of the Sabres forwards that have developed in the system.  There is simply no data on them relative to the NHL playoffs.  Who will be a lion and who will be a mouse?

[bob_sauve28]

26 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

  From the JJP thread

I think this applies to all of the Sabres forwards that have developed in the system.  There is simply no data on them relative to the NHL playoffs.  Who will be a lion and who will be a mouse?

We have some players that look playoff ready: Tuch, Thompson, Zucker, Greenway, Malenstein, Benson, Kulich--if he keeps his head up--and McLovin, while I'd be a afriad that Quinn and Peterka might get run over. 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

We have some players that look playoff ready: Tuch, Thompson, Zucker, Greenway, Malenstein, Benson, Kulich--if he keeps his head up--and McLovin, while I'd be a afriad that Quinn and Peterka might get run over. 

We have our suspicions but until you see them in battle you don't know.  Peterka might step up; Benson may get run over.  You never know.

[xzy89c1]

20 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I disagree.  We have seen considerable turnover at forward the last 3 years to get to a better group.  They aren't nearly as soft and they are much much better defensively.  Gone are Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, VO, KO, Girgensons, Jost, Eakin, Hinostroza, Bjork, and Asplund and honestly we are better for it.  Guys like Greenway, Benson, Kulich, Zucker and Norris (when healthy), play with much more grit, guille and defense than the guys listed above.  

Until we fix the D and G, we honestly won't know how the forwards will stand up in the playoffs.  That said Tuch was solid in his playoff games with LV.  

Greenway is the softest 6 foot 6 guy around. Benson takes bad penalties but that is not tough. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, xzy89c1 said:

Greenway is the softest 6 foot 6 guy around. Benson takes bad penalties but that is not tough. 

You don't think Zach Benson is tough?

[Pimlach]

On 5/19/2025 at 10:50 AM, pi2000 said:

Over the past six seasons the leagues youngest team has ranked 30th (OTT), 28th (NJD), 31st (DET), 32nd (CBJ), 32nd (ANA) and 29th (BUF) in goals against.    

So blame KA for icing the youngest team in the league and expecting playoffs. 

The players themselves will be fine, they have enough talent... they just haven't learned how to defend at the NHL level yet.

It takes physical growth, coaching, experience and patience.  

You want the instant gratification of making the playoffs?   Then you'll need to swap out some youngsters for some veterans.   

But is that really the goal?   Are you willing to sacrifice future returns just to squeak into a wildcard spot and get walloped in the 1st round?

You kind of ruined your point with the last statement.  

Yes.  Winning is the goal.  Make the playoffs, you get knocked out and you learn from it and build off the winning.  Fine tune a young playoff team into a veteran contender but the only way to establish a winning culture is to win.   

Adams was trying to build what he calls a "sustainable winner", thinking of the future so much that every year he is banking on too many unknowns while paying fairly big salaries to unproven players.  We are seeing that this plan is not going to work. 

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Fixing gt alone would have put us in the playoffs last year. UPL was a sieve.

Well maybe if we had a lights out Hasek type goalie but "fixing" with anything viable is doubtful to have changed anything. We picked up a lot of late season garbage points as a loose team taken lightly. It was, as every year, meaningless. We might have gotten a little closer like Detroit at best.