Friedman believes changes are coming to Sabres Front Office; UPL Available?

[tom webster]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

The measure for success in business is profitability; and the measure for success in sports is a team’s record. 
 

If a corporation miserably failed for an extended period of time, you can count on a significant staffing shakeup (firings) and alteration in how the operation is run. The Sabres are not run as if it is a normally functioning franchise where there is an expectation of accountability. In the hockey business the Sabres are irrelevant and an afterthought  in an an environment that should entail passion. The Sabres have a slumbering fanbase while normally run franchises have passionate fans.

 

The owner through his gross incompetence has destroyed this franchise. It’s a shame. I wish he would get on his big boat and sail away.

The business has increased in value dramatically since he bought the team. From purely a business standpoint there is little reason to change anything. Obviously that is not the case from a sports perspective. On the other hand, as others have documented, there is rational explanations for all his moves despite the lack of success. 
Thankfully, the hiring of some of the industry’s top business executives likely points to changes coming which is certainly welcome news to those of us who are so emotionally attached.

[HumanSlinky39]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

It’s not like hiring a cup winning coach from Pittsburgh has ever bit us in the ass before. But hey, at least it doesn’t cost a draft pick this time. 

Same dude just got cut loose by SEA after one year. Yeah, not great.

[JohnC]

22 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The business has increased in value dramatically since he bought the team. From purely a business standpoint there is little reason to change anything. Obviously that is not the case from a sports perspective. On the other hand, as others have documented, there is rational explanations for all his moves despite the lack of success. 
Thankfully, the hiring of some of the industry’s top business executives likely points to changes coming which is certainly welcome news to those of us who are so emotionally attached.

All NHL franchises have increased in value. He didn't do anything to accomplish that. In fact, I would go in the other direction in that if this was a Cup Contending team the value of the franchise would be even more. And it is undebatable that if this was a serious team the increase internal revenue from attendance, concessions, ancillary sources would be even more. 

Like you, I'm glad that he hired some high-quality business executives for the business side of the operation. On the other hand, if only he would do that for the hockey side of the business this franchise would be much more profitable for this perplexing owner. 

Does anyone doubt that a playoff run would add a lot of post regular season revenue? 

Edited 23 hours ago by JohnC

[JP51]

at this point Pegula is rivaling the Government (State and Fed) as his only competition for most incompetent.... 

[tom webster]

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

All NHL franchises have increased in value. He didn't do anything to accomplish that. In fact, I would go in the other direction in that if this was a Cup Contending team the value of the franchise would be even more. And it is undebatable that if this was a serious team the increase internal revenue from attendance, concessions, ancillary sources would be even more. 

Like you, I'm glad that he hired some high-quality business executives for the business side of the operation. On the other hand, if only he would do that for the hockey side of the business this franchise would be much more profitable for this perplexing owner. 

Does anyone doubt that a playoff run would add a lot of post regular season revenue? 

There are those who will tell you that winning a championship doesn’t increase value and even though early round playoff ticket money can increase actual positive cash flow, going to the finals can actually cost a team money. 

[JP51]

4 minutes ago, tom webster said:

There are those who will tell you that winning a championship doesn’t increase value and even though early round playoff ticket money can increase actual positive cash flow, going to the finals can actually cost a team money. 

From a revenue standpoint I will take your word for it although I dont see how... I think however we are talking about value of the franchise.. I am not sure that winning the Stanley Cup decreases the value of your franchise... 

[TheAud]

41 minutes ago, tom webster said:

There are those who will tell you that winning a championship doesn’t increase value and even though early round playoff ticket money can increase actual positive cash flow, going to the finals can actually cost a team money. 

I’m asking this sincerely; please explain the part about going to the finals costing a team money.

[JohnC]

54 minutes ago, tom webster said:

There are those who will tell you that winning a championship doesn’t increase value and even though early round playoff ticket money can increase actual positive cash flow, going to the finals can actually cost a team money. 

Being a serious team would add two to four thousand people in the seats at the game. There is a difference between selling tickets and fans actually showing up. Buffalo is a good example of that.

 

The truth of the matter is regardless what the actual revenue projections are the Sabres are a failed franchise from a competitive standpoint because the owner made a lot of bad hockey decisions.

[tom webster]

2 hours ago, JP51 said:

From a revenue standpoint I will take your word for it although I dont see how... I think however we are talking about value of the franchise.. I am not sure that winning the Stanley Cup decreases the value of your franchise... 

no, that’s not what I mean. However, whether winning a Cup helps at all is debatable.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, TheAud said:

I’m asking this sincerely; please explain the part about going to the finals costing a team money.

There are a lot of costs associated with playing in the finals that aren’t offset by ticket or local tv revenue because the league pretty much takes over most of the revenue. Things like staff perks, travel, rings, etc. My opinion stems from a conversation I had fifteen years ago so it might not be the same today which is why I phrased it the way I did originally. However, the person who told me this was in a position to know. I’m pretty sure there was an article in the Buffalo News regarding this when the team last played in the finals.

 

[SwampD]

6 minutes ago, tom webster said:

no, that’s not what I mean. However, whether winning a Cup helps at all is debatable.

I'd love to be able to find out.

Just now, tom webster said:

There are a lot of costs associated with playing in the finals that aren’t offset by ticket or local tv revenue because the league pretty much takes over most of the revenue. Things like staff perks, travel, rings, etc. My opinion stems from a conversation I had fifteen years ago so it might not be the same today which is why I phrased it the way I did originally. However, the person who told me this was in a position to know. I’m pretty sure there was an article in the Buffalo News regarding this when the team last played in the finals.

 

I also thought that some of the players actually take a pay cut during playoffs, as well, because their salaries are based on the 82 game season.

[Flashsabre]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I'd love to be able to find out.

I also thought that some of the players actually take a pay cut during playoffs, as well, because their salaries are based on the 82 game season.

They don’t get paid during the playoffs

[PerreaultForever]

4 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

They don’t get paid during the playoffs

Correct, but some of course make money with endorsements as their profile rises from playoffs. The owners make a boatload of cash though. Playoff revenue plus massive amounts of merchandise and then usually increased season ticket sales for the next year. Just getting in the playoffs makes teams a lot of money. 

[tom webster]

42 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I'd love to be able to find out.

I also thought that some of the players actually take a pay cut during playoffs, as well, because their salaries are based on the 82 game season.

The real question now is how the ticket revenue is split. I’ll have to do some digging. I’m pretty sure in the finals most of it goes to the league.

[kas23]

Well, this would at least explain Terry’s disdain for the playoffs. 
 

In addition, there’s probably some truth in a Cup not increasing the value of a franchise. This is probably true for most large markets. For example, I don’t think the value of the Leafs would increase if they win another championship. 

Edited 19 hours ago by kas23

[SwampD]

On 4/29/2025 at 9:47 PM, dudacek said:

I agree with bolded.

What's weird is the amount of substantial changes they have actually made over this 14-year debacle:

• Embark on an aggressive fantasy GM plan to push a middling team into contention
• Open the checkbook for the most high-profile free agents willing to sign.
• Fire the most successful coach in franchise history
• Embark on a deliberate two-year effort to be overtly terrible in an attempt to acquire a franchise player(s) and build with youth.
• Fire the most successful GM in franchise history
• Hire a beloved former captain and star to run the team, and a former cup-winning GM to advise him.
• Hire a beloved former coach to teach grit and passion.
• Hire a gunslinging super-scout to be GM
• Trade away the captain and pretty much all your key skaters
• Trade away your all-star goalie and the face of the franchise
• Embark on a fast-track plan to flip your futures for a contending core, built around a size model
• Sign a name free agent scoring winger to a multi-year, big money deal
• Sign an older well-respected name free agent scoring winger to a smaller deal to be leader
• Make one of the biggest blockbuster multi-player trades in franchise history
• Trade away a first round draft pick for a new franchise goalie
• Open up your treasure chest of futures to trade for the biggest-name player on the trade market, sign him to a huge contract
• Draft a franchise centre, sign him to a huge contract and eventually name him captain
• Sign a high-profile former Stanley Cup winning coach
• Sign another bigger-name free agent scoring winger to a bigger multi-year, big money deal
• Fire your high-profile former Stanley Cup winning coach
• Fire your gunslinging GM
• Hire a touted up-and-comer from a Stanley Cup winning organization to be your GM
• Embark on a slow, methodical plan to build through bargain basement shopping, mobile defencemen, and a aversion to long-term contracts
• Hire a touted up-and-comer who used to be a star player for you to be your coach
• Draft a franchise defenceman, sign him to a huge contract and eventually name him captain
• Trade one of your biggest-name players for a big package of middling veterans and futures.
• Acquire a soon-to-be UFA one-way scoring winger sign him to the 2nd-biggest contract in franchise history after a great half-season
• Fire the touted up-and-comer who used to be a star player for you as your coach
• Let the "franchise" goalie you paid a first-rounder to acquire walk for free.
• Hire a completely out-of-the-box choice as your coach
• Fire the touted up-and-comer from a Stanley Cup winning organization as your GM, not because of slow progress, but because he wouldn't listen
• Hire a completely out-of-the-box choice as your GM because he used to play in the NHL and you know him and trust him.
• Embark on on a last-ditch plan of telling the out-of-the-box GM to give the out-of-the-box coach the players he wants in order to make your franchise centre captain stop complaining and asking to be traded.
• Sign yet another big-name free agent scoring winger, this time to a short-term contract with full trade protection.
• Fire your completely out-of-the box coach
• Embark on another sell-off aimed at rebuilding from with in with youth, and this time really mean it.
• Trade away the captain and pretty much all your key skaters for futures, or let them walk for free
• Let your goalie walk for nothing and continue what is now an annual tradition of starting the season with troubled or unproven players in net
• Draft another franchise defenceman, sign him to a huge contract and eventually name him...no wait, he's not captain yet.
• Stop spending to the cap
• Hire a long-time NHL assistant with a reputation for player development as your coach
• Invest heavily in an analytics department led by one of the field's most touted minds
• Patiently wait for the kids to develop, and betting on their progress by signing some to long-term deals before they've fully earned them.
• Fire the long-time NHL assistant with a reputation for player development as your coach
• Re-hire the most-succcessful coach franchise history
• Start making a few changes to and around your wrong core.
• ????

The only thing that hasn't changed over the years — aside from the magic veteran winger band-aids — is the losing.

As much as it's a tragedy for us, it's also a true comedy, actually. 

Really, not making a substantial change when one is clearly needed might be the one thing they haven't tried. 🤣

They haven't tried spending to the cap,... or digging another well.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Well, this would at least explain Terry’s disdain for the playoffs. 
 

In addition, there’s probably some truth in a Cup not increasing the value of a franchise. This is probably true for most large markets. For example, I don’t think the value of the Leafs would increase if they win another championship. 

Hopefully they never find out.

[Broken Ankles]

21 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The real question now is how the ticket revenue is split. I’ll have to do some digging. I’m pretty sure in the finals most of it goes to the league.

“NHL teams also pocket 65% of postseason revenue, which is significantly higher than the other leagues. Based on the other streams of revenue, they need a high percentage in order to make money.”

https://thehockeywriters.com/how-do-nhl-teams-make-money/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

Face value of Stanley Cup Finals in EDM last year was over $500/ea.  That’s $9m in ticket revenue alone.  Per game.  Not including parking and HRR.  I can’t imagine the cost to host is more than $1m per game. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I'd love to be able to find out.

I also thought that some of the players actually take a pay cut during playoffs, as well, because their salaries are based on the 82 game season.

All players take a pay cut to play in the post season.  They get bonus money based upon how far they make it in the playoffs (losers of round 1 get significantly less than those that get to hoist Lord Stanley's Chalice).  Want to say how much they end up getting is determined by overall playoff revenue but it's been a long time since looking at that portion of the CBA; could be off on that.

[tom webster]

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

“NHL teams also pocket 65% of postseason revenue, which is significantly higher than the other leagues. Based on the other streams of revenue, they need a high percentage in order to make money.”

https://thehockeywriters.com/how-do-nhl-teams-make-money/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

Face value of Stanley Cup Finals in EDM last year was over $500/ea.  That’s $9m in ticket revenue alone.  Per game.  Not including parking and HRR.  I can’t imagine the cost to host is more than $1m per game. 

Yeah, doing a little research and a quick conversation leads to the position that things have changed dramatically in the last 15 years. I was told Florida made about $25m from their Cup run. I was mistaken. 

[dudacek]

49 minutes ago, SwampD said:

They haven't tried spending to the cap,... or digging another well.

Didn’t they spend to the cap every year right up to the purge of 2021?

Or am I misremembering that?

[Flashsabre]

I’m expecting a Friday afternoon news dump with an announcement today. Reshuffling the deck chairs.

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I’m expecting a Friday afternoon news dump with an announcement today. Reshuffling the deck chairs.

Honestly, I think Pegula is like most billionaires and out of touch with reality of every day things. In this case, I don't think Pegula has a feel at all for how apathetic the fans are or even how poorly his ownership is viewed now. He's insulated and oblivious as the majority of ppl in his orbit are telling him what he wants to here or at least their version of things. Maybe Ruff breaks that up but it takes a true leader to say openly "we're wrong, this isn't working, we need to make changes" to a guy who can fire you on whim.

[JohnC]

17 hours ago, tom webster said:

There are those who will tell you that winning a championship doesn’t increase value and even though early round playoff ticket money can increase actual positive cash flow, going to the finals can actually cost a team money. 

Right now, the value of the franchise is depressed to a degree because the market has been devalued because of a fading fanbase. I'm not suggesting that the market value is dramatically devalued but it surely is factored in when considering the value of the franchise. I'm sure that anyone interested in buying the franchise would examine the cash/flow and profitability when negotiating a price with a seller. 

 

13 hours ago, tom webster said:

Yeah, doing a little research and a quick conversation leads to the position that things have changed dramatically in the last 15 years. I was told Florida made about $25m from their Cup run. I was mistaken. 

I appreciate your willingness to alter your opinion when faced with a set of facts that you previously didn't have. I really respect people who are open-minded enough to adjust when additional information is learned. I salute you. 👍

[Archie Lee]

The lottery draft is this Monday. At this stage, I think the most likely scenario is no structural changes and no announcements or press releases. Adams will just be in the grainy zoom shot, sitting in his office waiting to hear where we draft in the top 9, trying to strike the right balance in his facial expression between hopeful he wins the lottery and embarrassed he is here again.  

Unless they want to wait for the Amerks season to end before making any announcement on Karmanos. That would seem unnecessary though.