Players that should NOT be on this team next year

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The first two players I want to see traded are Alex Tuch and Dylan Cozens just to wake some Buffalo Sabres fans up they aren’t that good. Two very overrated hockey players. Pick two defenseman to keep between Dahlin, Byram or Power. I would go with trading Owen Power. Even though I am tempted to trading Rasmus Dahlin he is well paid and his act is growing old another player that is overrated for his yearly pay scale level. I expect a lot more from that bum than the Sabres are getting. I keep UPL but on a short term contract not long term with two levels of pay structure depending if he can beat out Devon Levi in training camp or not if UPL can’t he gets a lower NHL salary. So if UPL wins the Sabres job in training camp he gets what he asked for if he can’t he has to accept the Sabres lower salary. That to me is fair with UPL. I am open for all trades regardless of the player. If someone wants to overpay for Tage Thompson or Devon Levi the Sabres should be open for business. I am also open to selling Buffalo Sabres players if it keeps the Buffalo Sabres games affordable. It’s not like these bums have won anything. Also new Buffalo Sabres policy any Sabres player or Sabres employee that lashes out at Sabres fans in post game interviews or not saluting the Sabres fans is suspended 1/10th of his yearly salary that will take care of that crap the ungrateful bums in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited April 1 by Buffalo Super Fan

[thewookie1]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So true. He looked absolutely dreadful on that and you can see he does not have the size and/or physicality to handle hard play in tight. few of our D do. 

I said this in another thread but I think it's worth stressing. If you look at Adams building a team he "filled a need at D" with a fast puck moving D man but that's exactly the same move JBots made when he got Montour and he's basically the same guy. In fact, Montour is a lot tougher and might be the better of the two. When Montour got here he wanted to be here (being from Ontario) until the losing kicked in and he was poorly coached and the D system sucks and his game was garbage so he goes to Florida where they have proper structure and good coaching and he's a star for their D. 

Byram is just Montour V2 and so in terms of building this team if you look at the whole time line, Adams has simply given away Mitts. We have not progressed here.

 

Byram is a good player with high tier potential but was likely Adams' 4th choice nonetheless. 

Chychrun was his 1st choice but Arizona wanted Benson's pick and Savoie as well as more and I can honestly understand balking at that sort of demand.

Pesce and Hanifin were his 2/3. Pesce vetoed a trade here supposedly and Hanifin likely told he wouldn't extend which would of made that a null point anyway.

Byram is still young, won a Cup and at his best is a Top 2 Defenseman. He also had no types of trade protection so it was merely a matter of meeting the price.

Supposedly we were also in on Tanev among others too.

So if you believe the media; Adams is building a team while having to peruse through a mess of NTCs and NMCs which many Top 4 defenseman have.

7 hours ago, inkman said:

Jacob Trouba seems to be doing fine. Give me someone like him.  I’m tired of our guys getting their ***** kicked constantly.  I don’t need 15 guys on the roster like that but 3-4 would be nice. 

Even if Adams wanted him Trouba would block the trade anyway. He went to NYC for his wife whose a  doctor there.

 

6 hours ago, pastajoe said:

I had hoped that Adams would have vigorously perused Radko Gudas last summer, but we ended up with Clifton.

He may have, but then again Gudas isn't exactly a spring chicken and thus he targeted Clifton as a younger alternative.

 

I wholeheartedly believe Adams has been looking for a physical defenseman but hasn't found one willing to come here and thus with Byram is hoping to double down on the skilled defenseman angle.

Honestly, go through every team and find their Top 4 D, typically 2/3 have some protection and the ones lacking it are either signed forever, extremely costly, or would never be traded in a million years for an assortment of reasons.

 

[PerreaultForever]

19 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Byram is a good player with high tier potential but was likely Adams' 4th choice nonetheless. 

Chychrun was his 1st choice but Arizona wanted Benson's pick and Savoie as well as more and I can honestly understand balking at that sort of demand.

Pesce and Hanifin were his 2/3. Pesce vetoed a trade here supposedly and Hanifin likely told he wouldn't extend which would of made that a null point anyway.

Byram is still young, won a Cup and at his best is a Top 2 Defenseman. He also had no types of trade protection so it was merely a matter of meeting the price.

Supposedly we were also in on Tanev among others too.

So if you believe the media; Adams is building a team while having to peruse through a mess of NTCs and NMCs which many Top 4 defenseman have.

Even if Adams wanted him Trouba would block the trade anyway. He went to NYC for his wife whose a  doctor there.

 

He may have, but then again Gudas isn't exactly a spring chicken and thus he targeted Clifton as a younger alternative.

 

I wholeheartedly believe Adams has been looking for a physical defenseman but hasn't found one willing to come here and thus with Byram is hoping to double down on the skilled defenseman angle.

Honestly, go through every team and find their Top 4 D, typically 2/3 have some protection and the ones lacking it are either signed forever, extremely costly, or would never be traded in a million years for an assortment of reasons.

 

Do you have any facts to back this up or is it just speculative based on what you hoped he would do? 

I mean you can say something like "he wanted Pesce" but Pesce had a NMC for Buffalo which may be true, but if he was actually available did any GM NOT want Pesce? Rumor he wanted him probably based on a phone call with no further discussion. 

The only thing that seems fairly probable is what he did try to trade for Chychrun but as far as I know the rest is just rumors.

I'm not sure Byram has all this upside people think and that's because of his size. There's no question he can skate and move the puck, but I really don't see him becoming a real solid D man, he's just not big enough for that. 

He's a fine addition to the team he came into but I'd challenge you to prove to me that he's actually better than Montour. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The question is who can we get to make this team better and what will it cost to acquire that talent?

IMHO everyone is on the table depending on the offer.  Who exactly has done enough to be indispensable? Quinn? JJP? Who?

The Sabres needs are vast.  They need a top 9 center (I want a top 6 center, but I'm trying to be realistic), preferably someone who can distribute the puck.  They need more physical forwards and they need one or more defensive first D.  We also need some play hard and win type plays who don't accept losing graciously.

The run it back team looks like this:

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson (Krebs) Greenway

Girgensons (UFA) ?????? Robinson (UFA)

Dahlin Byram

Power Jokiharju

Samuelsson Clifton

R Johnson

UPL/Levi

I don't think the "run it back" strategy is a good one.  This team needs for accountability. I'm willing to trade Power, Benson, Tuch, Skinner, TNT, R Johnson, Samuelsson and even Levi or UPL depending on the return.  I'm also willing to part with any of Savoie, Kulich, or Rosen in the right deal.  I'm not saying blow the thing up, but you need to give to get.  Time to stop coddling failure.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Do you have any facts to back this up or is it just speculative based on what you hoped he would do? 

I mean you can say something like "he wanted Pesce" but Pesce had a NMC for Buffalo which may be true, but if he was actually available did any GM NOT want Pesce? Rumor he wanted him probably based on a phone call with no further discussion. 

The only thing that seems fairly probable is what he did try to trade for Chychrun but as far as I know the rest is just rumors.

I'm not sure Byram has all this upside people think and that's because of his size. There's no question he can skate and move the puck, but I really don't see him becoming a real solid D man, he's just not big enough for that. 

He's a fine addition to the team he came into but I'd challenge you to prove to me that he's actually better than Montour. 

It's most speculation based on the mass quantity of reports and connecting dots as well as using Adams' own statements about working on getting bigger and stronger last season.

Could all of the hockey talking heads have been merely speculating while claiming it to be true; sure. But none of us can really do much better in regards to sources for what was going on behind the scenes.

Logically, one can create a very reasonable timeline of events based on the many reports floating around by generally well respected sources.

Before the draft we almost certainly pursued Pesce and Hanifin. Just after the draft there were talks about Pesce using his NTC to block a trade prior to the draft. After this we heard few mentions of the Sabres pushing for Pesce besides general speculation. Hanifin also appeared to be a possibility to which at least one insider believed it was to happen in the coming days. However weeks went by and nothing happened, however many of the insiders still believed we were a prime candidate and that Adams was most certainly engaged with CGY over him and as we learned later, Tanev. The only reason the Sabres would of backed out of a rumored deal for Hanifin would of been knowledge that he wouldn't sign. Yet we seemed to continue calling in to get updates. Byram for Mitts talk only began to be talked about in mid-December which was likely a combo of Colorado needing a 2C and Buffalo wanting a RHD or at very least a Top 4 D.

Could it all be pure guesswork, certainly but it computes as a very possible and even likely timeline of events.  

 

As for Montour versus Byram, they are very similar in many regards.

Montour is 6ft 194lb

Byram is 6ft1 190lb

 

Montour started his career at 22 and  was a full time starter the following year.

Byram started his career at 19 and was a full time starter the following year (However, Byram ended up with multiple concussions his next 2 seasons which had him play only 30 and 42 games respectively.

 

Points wise starting from year 2, Montour had 32pts in 80 and 35pts in 82 being traded to Buffalo mid 3rd season

Points wise starting from year 2, Byram had 17pts in 30 and 24pts in 42, this year he has 26pts in 67 which is a step back. But he does have 6pts in 12 with Buffalo. Mind you, Byram is 2/3 years younger in every respective season in comparison. 

 

Hits wise, Montour averages slightly more than a hit per game besides this year where he has 93 in 58 games.

Hits wise, Byram's 2 injury years had him hitting almost 2 per game (53 in 30 and 82 in 42) This year he's only a tad over a hit per game with 81 in 67 games. 

 

Montour has an edge in the Corsi numbers and a great playoff with a Cup Finals loss while Byram has both age and a Cup Ring (while being highly used as the playoffs went on) 

What will decide these two is if Byram finds his physical play from prior to his two concussions which outpaced Montour or settles in at about 1 per game. Additionally will Byram take the steps Montour did in his 6th season. (Presently Byram is in year 4.)

 

 

[SabreFinn]

I am all in on getting rid of Skinner.

Jost, Olofsson will be gone.

Krebs, Girgensons and Robinson, I am not against them to be extended, but Adams should try to find better players that can improve the team Before he gives a contract extension. But there are better run franchises with cap looking for same type of players.

We can't trade away Power because of a second year slump. That if something will bite our *****. Even if seeing his play along the boards is frustrating. Byram is earning less money and is a cup-winner, meaning he is the one that can bring us a top six center or winger, with years left on the contract, or looking for a less salary than Mitts.

[Warriorspikes51]

Cozens.   Trade him. 

Enjoy the fans on the road with your new team 🤡

This is one of the most unlikeable Sabres teams in recent memory 

This group being "shaken up" over fan related things tells you all you need to know 

Edited April 1 by Warriorspikes51

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

The first two players I want to see traded are Alex Tuch and Dylan Cozens just to wake some Buffalo Sabres fans up they aren’t that good. Two very overrated hockey players. Pick two defenseman to keep between Dahlin, Byram or Power. I would go with trading Owen Power. Even though I am tempted to trading Rasmus Dahlin he is well paid and his act is growing old another player that is overrated for his yearly pay scale level. I expect a lot more from that bum than the Sabres are getting. I keep UPL but on a short term contract not long term with two levels of pay structure depending if he can beat out Devon Levi in training camp or not if UPL can’t he gets a lower NHL salary. So if UPL wins the Sabres job in training camp he gets what he asked for if he can’t he has to accept the Sabres lower salary. That to me is fair with UPL. I am open for all trades regardless of the player. If someone wants to overpay for Tage Thompson or Devon Levi the Sabres should be open for business. I am also open to selling Buffalo Sabres players if it keeps the Buffalo Sabres games affordable. It’s not like these bums have won anything. Also new Buffalo Sabres policy any Sabres player or Sabres employee that lashes out at Sabres fans in post game interviews or not saluting the Sabres fans is suspended 1/10th of his yearly salary that will take care of that crap the ungrateful bums in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Get a software update or fix your algorithm or something.  

56 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Cozens.   Trade him. 

Enjoy the fans on the road with your new team 🤡

This is one of the most unlikeable Sabres teams in recent memory 

This group being "shaken up" over fan related things tells you all you need to know 

Last year they were one of the most likeable teams in recent memory.   This is what happens after 13 years of futility, over promising, and missed expectations.  

 

[Buffalonill]

I want a new coaching staff before we destroy the whole top 6 roster 

 

 

Edited April 1 by Buffalonill

[kas23]

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Byram is a good player with high tier potential but was likely Adams' 4th choice nonetheless. 

 

This is great and all, but “choices” depends on availability. KA can dream all he wants, but he can only choose from who is available. For example, there’s no way Byram was available at the time the Chychrun trade went down. Byram’s value was too high at that point. 
 

Besides, there’s that little pesky detail that KA said on WGR that he wanted Byram coming back in a potential trade with COL for Eichel. So, basically he was KA’s first choice. 

[xzy89c1]

we need four new players that are tough to play against and hold their teammates accountable. we are soft as marshmallows. Agree with most of OP. Power needs some coaching. All our D does. We have no plan in d zone. 

Power needs fewer minutes and a concentration on D zone. With RD and BB now, he will not see the PP. 

[Archie Lee]

11 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Chychrun was his 1st choice but Arizona wanted Benson's pick and Savoie as well as more and I can honestly understand balking at that sort of demand.

 

 

Adams did make clear after the Byram deal that he had been trying to get a d-man. I don’t think your recollection or assumption on what Arizona wanted for Chychrun is accurate. I acknowledge that I ultimately have no idea as it has never been fully reported what the precise ask/demand was from the Sabres. Here is what we know though:

- Chychrun went to Ottawa for a protected 1st and two 2nds. 

- During the post deadline press conference last year Adams insinuated they were in on Chychrun but the price was too high. Someone asked if Arizona asked for a top prospect or Savoie and Adams was coy but his expression suggested yes. My take was that Arizona likely wanted Savoie and two 2nds because Adams was unprepared to trade a 1st or Arizona didn’t see our 1st as valuable as Ottawa’s. 
 

I could be wrong, but I don’t think the ask was a 1st plus Savoie. I think the ask of the Sabres was Savoie rather than the 1st and Adams balked.  
 

I can’t say I’m down on this as I don’t think Chychrun would have, by himself, moved the needle on us making the playoffs this year. A fair question though would be, going forward, would we be better with an extended Mittelstadt and an extended Chychrun or with Byram, Savoie and whoever we would have drafted with the two 2nds?

[Drag0nDan]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:26 AM, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

This team is in need of a come to hockey God makeover. Here is my list of players that need to go immediately:

Jost - Ahl player only

Girgs- sorry guy, you bring nothing to the table

Olofsson - should have been gone last year. 

Power - pipe dream I know but he is an embarrassment to the man card. His end of season chat need to start with "Grow a pair"

Skinner - time for him to move on. Slow,  lazy, defensive liability. 

Comrie - just not needed, nor good

Krebs - not good as 3rd liner just not enough talent. Not to mention we need a good flush of players.  

 

What do you think??

Power's contract is going to limit suitors, and require money coming back.  Usually that results in... the berglunds and sobotkas of the world.  

I personally would like to see power with a new coaching staff before i'd be willing to write him off.  

[Archie Lee]

4 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Power's contract is going to limit suitors, and require money coming back.  Usually that results in... the berglunds and sobotkas of the world.  

I personally would like to see power with a new coaching staff before i'd be willing to write him off.  

I can’t believe anyone is seriously wanting to move on from Power after one season where nearly the entire team fell short of expectations, as individuals and a group. 
 

The one thing that Adams could do to signal that expectations are changing is to replace Granato with an experienced NHL head coach with a multi year track record of 45+ win playoff seasons. There are a handful currently available and likely to be more when the season ends and after some 1st rd playoff failures. Personally, I wish Granato had been provided more to work with this year. That would make the decision easier.  As is, it will take a new and experiences head coach to raise organizational expectations and fan optimism. 

[Crusader1969]

14 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

The first two players I want to see traded are Alex Tuch and Dylan Cozens just to wake some Buffalo Sabres fans up they aren’t that good. Two very overrated hockey players. Pick two defenseman to keep between Dahlin, Byram or Power. I would go with trading Owen Power. Even though I am tempted to trading Rasmus Dahlin he is well paid and his act is growing old another player that is overrated for his yearly pay scale level. I expect a lot more from that bum than the Sabres are getting. I keep UPL but on a short term contract not long term with two levels of pay structure depending if he can beat out Devon Levi in training camp or not if UPL can’t he gets a lower NHL salary. So if UPL wins the Sabres job in training camp he gets what he asked for if he can’t he has to accept the Sabres lower salary. That to me is fair with UPL. I am open for all trades regardless of the player. If someone wants to overpay for Tage Thompson or Devon Levi the Sabres should be open for business. I am also open to selling Buffalo Sabres players if it keeps the Buffalo Sabres games affordable. It’s not like these bums have won anything. Also new Buffalo Sabres policy any Sabres player or Sabres employee that lashes out at Sabres fans in post game interviews or not saluting the Sabres fans is suspended 1/10th of his yearly salary that will take care of that crap the ungrateful bums in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Love it.  April fools joke obviously.  Good job! 

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

I can’t believe anyone is seriously wanting to move on from Power after one season where nearly the entire team fell short of expectations, as individuals and a group. 
 

The one thing that Adams could do to signal that expectations are changing is to replace Granato with an experienced NHL head coach with a multi year track record of 45+ win playoff seasons. There are a handful currently available and likely to be more when the season ends and after some 1st rd playoff failures. Personally, I wish Granato had been provided more to work with this year. That would make the decision easier.  As is, it will take a new and experiences head coach to raise organizational expectations and fan optimism. 

It's laughable.  Same people always want guys to be traded before they develop.  Dahlin and Mitts are 2 recent examples.   There is a reason there aren't many 20 year old dmen in the league.   You come off like an idiot if youve Given up on a player so young.   

[Crusader1969]

Defenceman younger than power to have played 50 plus games this year

Hughes  minus 40

Mintyukov  minus 20

Nemec  minus 4

Korchinski.  Minus 34

 

Power  Plus 3 and plays substantially more mins on avg than the other 4 

Relax about Power!   

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I can’t believe anyone is seriously wanting to move on from Power after one season where nearly the entire team fell short of expectations, as individuals and a group. 
 

The one thing that Adams could do to signal that expectations are changing is to replace Granato with an experienced NHL head coach with a multi year track record of 45+ win playoff seasons. There are a handful currently available and likely to be more when the season ends and after some 1st rd playoff failures. Personally, I wish Granato had been provided more to work with this year. That would make the decision easier.  As is, it will take a new and experiences head coach to raise organizational expectations and fan optimism. 

Oh i don't want to - it was just the first post in the thread.  

[Drag0nDan]

5 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

we need four new players that are tough to play against and hold their teammates accountable. we are soft as marshmallows. Agree with most of OP. Power needs some coaching. All our D does. We have no plan in d zone. 

Power needs fewer minutes and a concentration on D zone. With RD and BB now, he will not see the PP. 

I kinda liked byram as the wing opposite tage tbh.  

Ideally id see it as

JJP - Quinn - Cozens - Tuch - Power JJP and Quinn on opposite sides, cozens in the middle, tuch down low, power at QB

Tage - Skinner (or Benson... potentially not on roster) - Greenway - Byram - Dahlin Tage and Byram on walls, Skinner down low, Greenway working net front rebounds and high slot, dahlin at QB

 

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

It's most speculation based on the mass quantity of reports and connecting dots as well as using Adams' own statements about working on getting bigger and stronger last season.

Could all of the hockey talking heads have been merely speculating while claiming it to be true; sure. But none of us can really do much better in regards to sources for what was going on behind the scenes.

Logically, one can create a very reasonable timeline of events based on the many reports floating around by generally well respected sources.

Before the draft we almost certainly pursued Pesce and Hanifin. Just after the draft there were talks about Pesce using his NTC to block a trade prior to the draft. After this we heard few mentions of the Sabres pushing for Pesce besides general speculation. Hanifin also appeared to be a possibility to which at least one insider believed it was to happen in the coming days. However weeks went by and nothing happened, however many of the insiders still believed we were a prime candidate and that Adams was most certainly engaged with CGY over him and as we learned later, Tanev. The only reason the Sabres would of backed out of a rumored deal for Hanifin would of been knowledge that he wouldn't sign. Yet we seemed to continue calling in to get updates. Byram for Mitts talk only began to be talked about in mid-December which was likely a combo of Colorado needing a 2C and Buffalo wanting a RHD or at very least a Top 4 D.

Could it all be pure guesswork, certainly but it computes as a very possible and even likely timeline of events.  

 

As for Montour versus Byram, they are very similar in many regards.

Montour is 6ft 194lb

Byram is 6ft1 190lb

 

Montour started his career at 22 and  was a full time starter the following year.

Byram started his career at 19 and was a full time starter the following year (However, Byram ended up with multiple concussions his next 2 seasons which had him play only 30 and 42 games respectively.

 

Points wise starting from year 2, Montour had 32pts in 80 and 35pts in 82 being traded to Buffalo mid 3rd season

Points wise starting from year 2, Byram had 17pts in 30 and 24pts in 42, this year he has 26pts in 67 which is a step back. But he does have 6pts in 12 with Buffalo. Mind you, Byram is 2/3 years younger in every respective season in comparison. 

 

Hits wise, Montour averages slightly more than a hit per game besides this year where he has 93 in 58 games.

Hits wise, Byram's 2 injury years had him hitting almost 2 per game (53 in 30 and 82 in 42) This year he's only a tad over a hit per game with 81 in 67 games. 

 

Montour has an edge in the Corsi numbers and a great playoff with a Cup Finals loss while Byram has both age and a Cup Ring (while being highly used as the playoffs went on) 

What will decide these two is if Byram finds his physical play from prior to his two concussions which outpaced Montour or settles in at about 1 per game. Additionally will Byram take the steps Montour did in his 6th season. (Presently Byram is in year 4.)

 

 

Thanks for looking into all that for the Byram Montour comparison. I think it actually validates my point that Adams is just doing what JBots already did and there's no progress. We just gave Mitts away. If the team was not a garbage dumpster fire we'd still have Montour, wouldn't need Byram, so we'd still have Mitts and we'd be a better team. This is an example of why we just don't get any better. One piece in, one piece out, one hole filled, another hole created. It's a constant cycle. 

As for the deals he tried to make, who knows. Making a few phone calls leads to a rumor and I'm sure he's always looking for new parts but how serious any of those talks are is just speculation. We can only measure him by what he actually gets done. 

[HumanSlinky39]

Skinner, Girgensons, Olofsson (HUGE mistake not trading him this past summer when he was coming off of a 28 goal season), Jost, and Comrie should all be on their way out the door.

I'd say good chance the last four are not here next season, not so sure they buy out Skinner and I don't think it would be easy to find a trade partner for him unless we eat some of his salary...which if it's less than his buyout, maybe they go that route. He can still get you 30 goals/60 points, so maybe somebody looking for a scoring boost takes the bait.

Edited April 1 by HumanSlinky39

[DarthEbriate]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Get a software update or fix your algorithm or something.  

I appreciate that the post was edited. 

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Defenceman younger than power to have played 50 plus games this year

Hughes  minus 40

Mintyukov  minus 20

Nemec  minus 4

Korchinski.  Minus 34

 

Power  Plus 3 and plays substantially more mins on avg than the other 4 

Relax about Power!   

Hughes is a -20 btw..

But your point is made 

[mjd1001]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:10 PM, DarthEbriate said:

I'd be curious to know Dahlin's +/- with the Sabres goalie pulled this season.

Despite a career high in goals scored, he's not having the dynamic season he had last year. However, he's got a higher Corsi 5-on-5 than last season, and more blocked shots and hits. An average powerplay would have him closer to 70 points. He probably still tries to do too much and occasionally blows an assignment like every other defender. But overall, having the forwards do their jobs and finding a legitimate 2nd D pairing will be the things that make Dahlin a Norris contender.

Dahlin looks to be up on goals since last year but way down on assists.  A simple reason he is down on assists? The guys in front of him (that he plays with most often) just aren't shooting as well. Tuch's Shooting percentage is down from over 16% to about 11%.  Thompson from about 16% to only near 11% this year. Skinner down from 14.5% last year to about 12% this year.  Cozens nearly cut in half from over 14% last year to about 8% this year.

The thing is, those guys are getting about the same number of shots per game as last year, and a month or so ago the advanced fancy stats showed that at least with Cozens and Thompson, they were getting shots from the high danger areas (quality chance) about the same as last year.  Meaning, Dahlin is getting the pucks up the ice and on to those guys sticks, they just aren't putting them in the net and he is getting less assists because of it. (which also impacts his plus-minus in a negative way).

And as for those 'league leaders' and 'Norris candidates' ahead of Dahlin....Quinn Hughes in Vancouver. Makar. Josi. Hedman.  What do they have that Dahlin doesn't have?  Not any (or many) more goals, but they do have forward on their team that put the puck in the net a lot better than the Sabres forwards, giving them a lot more assists than Dahlin gets.  Vancouvers top 4 goal scorers up front average almost 20% shooting percentage between them.  Colorado's top 3 guys are at 13.1, 15.8, and 17.7. Tampa's top 4 guys have almost 140 goals between them and are average about 20% shooting.  

Buffalo? Every single player on the team with at least 10 goals is shooting under 13%.

And when you break down the Sabres shooting..."high danger" chances (directly in front of the net), the league besides the Sabres shoots about 20%. The Sabres...14.1%.  Colorado?  20.5%  Vancouver?  23.4%.

So, Dahlin not being near the top of the league in points and assists (along with goals) might just be more of a function of the players he plays with being SO MUCH worse than the rest of the league at putting the puck into the net, even from prime scoring areas.  

As you said, leading the league in ice time, improving corsi, improving hits, improving blocked shots....if he had the assists that would go with better play up front, he just might be in the Norris converstation this year (and when looking at those numbers, if the Sabres were even AVERAGE at how much they produce from the high danger areas, they would probably be in the playoffs right now.

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Hughes is a -20 btw..

But your point is made 

Thanks 👍.  Imagine now if Power was minus 20???