mjd1001 Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 20 minutes ago, jad1 said: Nah, Granato is bad. He's the sixth longest tenured coach in the league right now. What are we going to learn next year that we already don't know about him? He's looked good in comparison to Krueger, but that's a low bar. I'd rather role the dice with the unknown than spend another year of failure with Granato. The same goes with Adams. Why is Granato bad? Serious question. The results are bad, but when you dig into the metrics....what I see is a team that has improved its defensive zone coverage from last year. A team that GETS good scoring chances from high danger areas, just converts them at the lowest rate in the league (that has nothing to do with coaching, they are getting the chances, they are in position, they just aren't converting them). The thing I see keeping this team out of the playoffs more than anything else is simply the players not coverting shot into goals, getting shots in great areas, 2 on ones, breakaways, and just not converting those chances at anywhere near the rate of most other teams. The coaching staff is not perfect, but the guys are in position to score, how is another coaching staff going to make them better shooters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 15 minutes ago, mjd1001 said: Why is Granato bad? Serious question. The results are bad, but when you dig into the metrics....what I see is a team that has improved its defensive zone coverage from last year. A team that GETS good scoring chances from high danger areas, just converts them at the lowest rate in the league (that has nothing to do with coaching, they are getting the chances, they are in position, they just aren't converting them). The thing I see keeping this team out of the playoffs more than anything else is simply the players not coverting shot into goals, getting shots in great areas, 2 on ones, breakaways, and just not converting those chances at anywhere near the rate of most other teams. The coaching staff is not perfect, but the guys are in position to score, how is another coaching staff going to make them better shooters? The xGA, odd man rush, and high danger chance metrics are amongst the worst in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre The Cup Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 6 hours ago, Mango said: Always worth mentioning that "taxes" were written right next to "lifestyle". Can someone explain this in a bit more detail? In this situation, how do tax breaks help? Are the Sabres just a write off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, mjd1001 said: Why is Granato bad? Serious question. The results are bad, but when you dig into the metrics....what I see is a team that has improved its defensive zone coverage from last year. A team that GETS good scoring chances from high danger areas, just converts them at the lowest rate in the league (that has nothing to do with coaching, they are getting the chances, they are in position, they just aren't converting them). The thing I see keeping this team out of the playoffs more than anything else is simply the players not coverting shot into goals, getting shots in great areas, 2 on ones, breakaways, and just not converting those chances at anywhere near the rate of most other teams. The coaching staff is not perfect, but the guys are in position to score, how is another coaching staff going to make them better shooters? First off, the power play is terrible. No movement, same plan over and over again. The defensive zone coverage is slightly improved, however they still give up way too many high danger chances. In the offensive zone, they are still a perimeter team. They have been poor on their high danger chances, but they also do not sustain pressure and lack net-front presence to score on rebounds. The team lacks general toughness and they are not difficult to play against. Ruff used to preach 'playing out of character' to elevate the team's play; Granato does not motivate his team to do the same. His in game management is bad to blah. There's obvious misses like not calling a timeout against Ottawa last week in first period. But besides examples like that, has there been any point in his tenure that you thought that he coached a great game? Are you impressed by his line combinations, management or matching? His team has a terrible home record. The Sabres have the worst 1st period goal differential in the league. This goes directly to a lack preparation on by the coaches. Too many times the team has just disappeared during a game. Going 10 or 15 minutes without a shot on goal. When you need the coach to figure out how to help the team to win a shift or two, Granato has come up empty. His choice of assistant coaches is terrible, and he has made bad decisions maintaining his staff. His management of preseason this year was terrible, contributing to the Sabres slow start. He purposefully ignored coaching the team to play a 200 ft game for 3 seasons, emphatic that letting his young players focus on offense would be better for their development. This is just an absurd approach, as it instilled a host of bad habits in his young players. To sum up, I don't think Granato is a good NHL coach. There is too much focus on developing individual players and too little on developing a team. His team lacks the mental focus and accountability to win on a nightly basis. Granato is 7th in NHL history on most games coached with no playoffs list. This shows that he's been given a longer leash than other most other coaches have to make the playoffs, and he has failed. It's time to move on. There are too many things that Granato needs to fix in his coaching style to realistically believe that he is going to pull it all together next season. And Adams should be shown the door with him. Edited April 1 by jad1 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 17 minutes ago, jad1 said: First off, the power play is terrible. No movement, same plan over and over again. The defensive zone coverage is slightly improved, however they still give up way too many high danger chances. In the offensive zone, they are still a perimeter team. They have been poor on their high danger chances, but they also do not sustain pressure and lack net-front presence to score on rebounds. The team lacks general toughness and they are not difficult to play against. Ruff used to preach 'playing out of character' to elevate the team's play; Granato does not motivate his team to do the same. His in game management is bad to blah. There's obvious misses like not calling a timeout against Ottawa last week in first period. But besides examples like that, has there been any point in his tenure that you thought that he coached a great game? Are you impressed by his line combinations, management or matching? His team has a terrible home record. The Sabres have the worst 1st period goal differential in the league. This goes directly to a lack preparation on by the coaches. Too many times the team has just disappeared during a game. Going 10 or 15 minutes without a shot on goal. When you need the coach to figure out how to help the team to win a shift or two, Granato has come up empty. His choice of assistant coaches is terrible, and he has made bad decisions maintaining his staff. His management of preseason this year was terrible, contributing to the Sabres slow start. He purposefully ignored coaching the team to play a 200 ft game for 3 seasons, emphatic that letting his young players focus on offense would be better for their development. This is just an absurd approach, as it instilled a host of bad habits in his young players. To sum up, I don't think Granato is a good NHL coach. There is too much focus on developing individual players and too little on developing a team. His team lacks the mental focus and accountability to win on a nightly basis. Granato is 7th in NHL history on most games coached with no playoffs list. This shows that he's been given a longer leash than other most other coaches have to make the playoffs, and he has failed. It's time to move on. There are too many things that Granato needs to fix in his coaching style to realistically believe that he is going to pull it all together next season. And Adams should be shown the door with him. If you bring back all of the same players with a different coach, the outcome won’t be much different. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7+6=13 Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 6 hours ago, Mango said: We don't really "know" anybody on the internet, or any professional athletes, or any billionaires at all. We can certainly make some educated guesses based on local interactions, interviews and decisions regarding the franchise. - We know for a fact that Terry likes to meddle. It has been questioned and defended by Terry across nearly every hockey hire he has made. - We know he would rather make a decisions himself rather than professional consensus; he literally said owners thought he was crazy for the Ville Leino deal. - We know that this organization has a toxic work culture. That has been been said since before the pandemic. - We know the Sabres model is all about economics, efficiency, his family lifestyle and tax breaks. This is a definitive shift from when he bought the team. Most importantly we know that Terry is really, really, really, really bad at being the owner of an NHL team. Like historically bad. We also know that his greatest successes in business come as an engineer/geologist, not as a people manager. So it isn't crazy to be on an internet message board and attribute bad leadership qualities to somebody who has shown to be.....a historically terrible leader. Some may be more accurate than others, but most are likely not super far off base. I appreciate the time it took to respond in such length and detail. I'm sorry though, as smartly written as your post is, it's full of conjecture. I suppose what makes you feel the most supported of your opinion is that we are historically bad. I just can't get onboard with you pretending to know that a 73 year old man's entire work history is and that he's never managed people before this. It's absolutely likely that people are misinformed and wrong on a message board, when it's a fact that they couldn't have the information to be credible. You think Kim Pegula created a toxic work culture? It's been suggested he has taken professional advice on hires, so the Leino example from 12-13 years ago, eh. You lost me at meddling. He's the owner and it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable for decisions to be explained to him before they're made. There's obviously been a change since he bought the team to present. I don't know what it is and neither do you. Except we continue to lose and frustration doesn't begin to explain what this fan base is going through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 21 minutes ago, inkman said: If you bring back all of the same players with a different coach, the outcome won’t be much different. I don't agree with this I think the Canucks are a prime example on what difference a coach can make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porous Five Hole Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 4 hours ago, bunomatic said: Honestly he comes across much like that other twit, King Charles. The arrogance towards the paying customer whom helps him afford his lifestyle while paying to see literally the worst ran franchise in almost all of sport. Get a grip Terry. For gawds sake sell sell sell. Goodness I cannot believe I’m feeling suckered into defending the guy, but here I am. This video is the last time I heard him speak: Yes he has sucked as an owner of the Sabres, but he’s far from an arrogant twit. And he doesn’t need to own the franchises to afford his lifestyle. He was a billionaire long before he owned the Sabres. I’m fine with flaming the guy for the results, the hiring and firing decisions, his level of priority for the Sabres, and many other things. There’s plenty to work with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 10 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: I don't agree with this I think the Canucks are a prime example on what difference a coach can make Who one this roster is going to have the courage to go into the dirty areas and do the things needed to win in a playoff game or race? They have a team entirely made up up perimeter players. Tuch gets there sometimes. Cozens acts like he wants to but have we seen it. All I see is a team that wants to score pretty goals on 30 ft slap shots. Don’t get me started with the defense. Which one of these all offense Dmen is going to be our rock? Someone that clears the crease, gives opponents fear when they enter the zone or god forbid hit anyone when it matters? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, inkman said: Who one this roster is going to have the courage to go into the dirty areas and do the things needed to win in a playoff game or race? They have a team entirely made up up perimeter players. Tuch gets there sometimes. Cozens acts like he wants to but have we seen it. All I see is a team that wants to score pretty goals on 30 ft slap shots. Don’t get me started with the defense. Which one of these all offense Dmen is going to be our rock? Someone that clears the crease, gives opponents fear when they enter the zone or god forbid hit anyone when it matters? Who is that on the Canucks ? They were a tire fire just over a year ago they bring in Tochett and make a few changes to the bottom of the lineup and a couple of new dmen Certainly didn't blow their team up And im not saying just make a coaching change in Buffalo. They need to revamp the bottom 6 and get guys who are physical and bring energy But a coach can make a world of difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Not to defend Pegula in general… and at some point I think the fans need to hear from him… ‘But if my wife suffered what Kim did and I was faced with the prospect of the person I expected to be there long after I’m gone (my wife is quite a bit younger too, although not as much of a gap as the Pegula’s) basically no longer there with little prospect to ever come back (based on what little we know about her brain injuries), I can tell you I’d have a hard time leaving the house I’d be so distraught. As a billionaire sports team owner he probably has a higher standard to live up to compared to some internet schmuck like me, but I do believe this factor is a partial explanation for his silence on some things and lack of attendance at games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, inkman said: If you bring back all of the same players with a different coach, the outcome won’t be much different. That's why I said that Adams needs to also go. But would different players make Granato's powerplay work? Would different players develop team toughness and grit if Granato didn't hold them accountable for playing in all 3 zones? Can you imagine Granato standing on the bench screaming 'You don't run our captain' at the other coach? The problem is roster construction and coaching. Both Adams and Granato need to go. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 5 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said: Goodness I cannot believe I’m feeling suckered into defending the guy, but here I am. This video is the last time I heard him speak: Yes he has sucked as an owner of the Sabres, but he’s far from an arrogant twit. And he doesn’t need to own the franchises to afford his lifestyle. He was a billionaire long before he owned the Sabres. I’m fine with flaming the guy for the results, the hiring and firing decisions, his level of priority for the Sabres, and many other things. There’s plenty to work with. The results speak for themselves. His ownership of this franchise can only be described as a complete and utter failure. The buck stops with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Oh wow that article on the lead in page was scathing. Brutal truths. https://www.niagara-gazette.com/sports/sabato-terry-pegula-remains-silent-as-sabres-arena-continue-to-decay/article_67f586da-f065-11ee-9367-4f626955fa3f.html 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 10 hours ago, TheAud said: Not to defend Pegula in general… and at some point I think the fans need to hear from him… ‘But if my wife suffered what Kim did and I was faced with the prospect of the person I expected to be there long after I’m gone (my wife is quite a bit younger too, although not as much of a gap as the Pegula’s) basically no longer there with little prospect to ever come back (based on what little we know about her brain injuries), I can tell you I’d have a hard time leaving the house I’d be so distraught. As a billionaire sports team owner he probably has a higher standard to live up to compared to some internet schmuck like me, but I do believe this factor is a partial explanation for his silence on some things and lack of attendance at games. I agree with all of this, but it’s also worth noting that in that time he’s named himself president of both orgs, been to nearly every Bills training camp practice, been in town for the ground breaking of the stadium, and still not stood in front of a microphone for 4-5 years. While I certainly feel for him and Kim it’s tough for me to definitively draw the line. He’s been around and named himself at the top both organizations. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 5 hours ago, bunomatic said: The results speak for themselves. His ownership of this franchise can only be described as a complete and utter failure. The buck stops with him. Owning a business is about $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, inkman said: Owning a business is about $$$ You make more $$$ if you win. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, SwampD said: You make more $$$ if you win. True. It hasn’t motivated him to do anything yet. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irregularly irregular Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Terry has lots of things that need his attention. Hopefully first and foremost is Kim's health. The Sabres are a long way down the list of priorities that need attention. And push come to shove, they have almost certainly been a good investment for him. From that standpoint the Sabres don't need much attention. Please Terry, sell a controlling interest in the team to people that have it higher on their list of priorities. Leadership has to come from the very top. Even if leading requires the strength and knowledge to step away and place said leadership in the hands of someone more capable and available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 17 hours ago, mjd1001 said: Why is Granato bad? Serious question. The results are bad, but when you dig into the metrics....what I see is a team that has improved its defensive zone coverage from last year. A team that GETS good scoring chances from high danger areas, just converts them at the lowest rate in the league (that has nothing to do with coaching, they are getting the chances, they are in position, they just aren't converting them). The thing I see keeping this team out of the playoffs more than anything else is simply the players not coverting shot into goals, getting shots in great areas, 2 on ones, breakaways, and just not converting those chances at anywhere near the rate of most other teams. The coaching staff is not perfect, but the guys are in position to score, how is another coaching staff going to make them better shooters? The Sabres are like 22nd in HDcf and 25th in HDCF%. Sure their HDsh% is 31st in the league but lets not act like they are playing some really great offensive hockey and just getting really unlucky. They are bottom third in the league all while being 14th in the league in total sh%. They don't generate enough HD chances and I would bet money one of the reasons they don't score on them is because a lot of their HD chances are single shots, not shots with rebounds and traffic. So I reject what you say here. They are bottom third in high danger chances for and high danger chance percentage all while having the 14th best sh% overall in the league. Yes their actual sh% in HD situations is bad at 31st overall but they don't get enough chances anyway. This team isn't coached well and is running a watered down krueger-esque offense because Granato suddenly decided they had to change after what was working last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 16 hours ago, 7+6=13 said: I appreciate the time it took to respond in such length and detail. I'm sorry though, as smartly written as your post is, it's full of conjecture. I suppose what makes you feel the most supported of your opinion is that we are historically bad. I just can't get onboard with you pretending to know that a 73 year old man's entire work history is and that he's never managed people before this. It's absolutely likely that people are misinformed and wrong on a message board, when it's a fact that they couldn't have the information to be credible. You think Kim Pegula created a toxic work culture? It's been suggested he has taken professional advice on hires, so the Leino example from 12-13 years ago, eh. You lost me at meddling. He's the owner and it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable for decisions to be explained to him before they're made. There's obviously been a change since he bought the team to present. I don't know what it is and neither do you. Except we continue to lose and frustration doesn't begin to explain what this fan base is going through. I know a bunch of people who work at Labatt and shared an office with PSE. I also know a few of the players in Terry's OG career. Yes, PSE was not a good place to work. That has been documented a bit in the news as well. It has also been reported that McBeane have worked hard to keep the Bills separate from PSE, which is part of the reason things are different at OBD. It has been speculated that they both also have a no meddling clause in their contracts, something Pegula has refused to do on the hockey side. Worth noting that Pegula's most successful franchise, The Bandits, have a director of lacrosse. A position he will not fill with the Sabres. Of course any owner is "allowed to meddle", but there have been too many reports of Leino, Skinner, asking Botterill to lay a ton of people off. He is of course welcome to do those things as owners. He also bares the weight of the criticism as well. And when the solution is clear as day, that you need to GTFO of the way and you refuse to do so, you deserve your motives questioned as a leader. I am unsure what your point is here. Terry Pegula is literally the worst owner in the history of the NHL. This is the worst run any owner in the history of the league has ever had. He inherited the 4th most winning team in league history and has turned it into the worst franchise ever during that time. It isn't really debatable. 1 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Also the Sabres have the 30th high danger goals for% in the freaking league. They aren't well coached. 41.64% HDGF% 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 52 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Also the Sabres have the 30th high danger goals for% in the freaking league. They aren't well coached. 41.64% HDGF% On the flip side, for all the "the defense is better" folks the Sabres are near the worst in the league in xGA and high danger chances against. UPL has saved this team from being bottom 5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, Mango said: On the flip side, for all the "the defense is better" folks the Sabres are near the worst in the league in xGA and high danger chances against. UPL has saved this team from being bottom 5. They basically sacrificed their advantage on offense to get almost no better defensively. It is one of the biggest indictment's of Granato, he changed the system to be more defensive which killed the offense all while barely improving the defense at all. Fire them all. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 (edited) 4 hours ago, LGR4GM said: The Sabres are like 22nd in HDcf and 25th in HDCF%. Sure their HDsh% is 31st in the league but lets not act like they are playing some really great offensive hockey and just getting really unlucky. They are bottom third in the league all while being 14th in the league in total sh%. They don't generate enough HD chances and I would bet money one of the reasons they don't score on them is because a lot of their HD chances are single shots, not shots with rebounds and traffic. So I reject what you say here. They are bottom third in high danger chances for and high danger chance percentage all while having the 14th best sh% overall in the league. Yes their actual sh% in HD situations is bad at 31st overall but they don't get enough chances anyway. This team isn't coached well and is running a watered down krueger-esque offense because Granato suddenly decided they had to change after what was working last year. If you look at both the raw numbers and the percentages, they are only a small number (in terms of raw numbers) away form middle-of-the-pack in terms of high danger chances/shots....yet their percentages are WAY off. So, combine chances generated, shots taken, where they are taken from, with shooting percentages....and it is the players not converting that is the vast majoirty of the shortfall, not how often they are in position. If you run the numbers all the way though, and you will see if the players improved their performance (just revert to last year's mean OR be average in the league) and this team would be a lot better. Edited April 2 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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