Sabres recall Tyson Jost from Amerks

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, Doohickie said:

While I agree with all of that, I think he's also one of the country club guys that is content with not making the playoffs.  That's a two sided coin though:  He also doesn't agitate (aka ROR losing his love of the game) when the team doesn't make the playoffs.  Again.

I respectively but strenuously disagree with your characterization of Skinner as a player. From my observations, he is more intensely involved in the game than most players are. The Sabres have not been a playoff team for a long time for a variety of reasons, mostly associated with the inadequacy of its roster. I don't see where that is his fault. Skinner is a goal scorer who scores in spurts. That's what he is now and what he has always been. 

[inkman]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I respectively but strenuously disagree with your characterization of Skinner as a player. From my observations, he is more intensely involved in the game than most players are. The Sabres have not been a playoff team for a long time for a variety of reasons, mostly associated with the inadequacy of its roster. I don't see where that is his fault. Skinner is a goal scorer who scores in spurts. That's what he is now and what he has always been. 

He’s also a turnover machine.  Within the last week I’ve seen him make two blind drop passes on the power play that were put right on the opposing team’s stick.  
 

He’s a finisher that the Sabres don’t have in abundance but his game has so many holes it’s laughable.  

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

He’s also a turnover machine.  Within the last week I’ve seen him make two blind drop passes on the power play that were put right on the opposing team’s stick.  
 

He’s a finisher that the Sabres don’t have in abundance but his game has so many holes it’s laughable.  

How many finishers does this team has? He's not a complete player. Far from it. He was never a well-rounded player, and will never be. He's a goal scorer. And in general, he has fulfilled his role. And goal scorers like him have a tendency to be sporadic. He is what he is. His assets make up for his liabilities. At least, that is how I see it. 

[K-9]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

"Imaging"

Imogene:

 

[Doohickie]

25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I respectively but strenuously disagree with your characterization of Skinner as a player. From my observations, he is more intensely involved in the game than most players are. The Sabres have not been a playoff team for a long time for a variety of reasons, mostly associated with the inadequacy of its roster. I don't see where that is his fault. Skinner is a goal scorer who scores in spurts. That's what he is now and what he has always been. 

I think the differences between the way we view him is smaller than our descriptions of our views; I don't think we're that far apart.

[Doohickie]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Imogene:

 

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

While I agree with all of that, I think he's also one of the country club guys that is content with not making the playoffs.  That's a two sided coin though:  He also doesn't agitate (aka ROR losing his love of the game) when the team doesn't make the playoffs.  Again.

Jeff Skinner is a floater and a guy that can score goals.  He is a one way player that was was shipped out of Carolina because they built a lineup where everyone is a two way player.    He is not a core leader for being a veteran player.  Given his tenure in Buffalo, the fact he does not have a letter speaks volumes.   I would trade him at the first opportunity, which may never come up.  

ROR did not agitate when he said he was losing his love of the game.  It was speaking the truth, directly and openly after another bad season playing on a team that was rudderless.  The media blew up the story, and Terry Pegula, our leader,  could not handle the truth.  Terry ran off the best player on the team because he didn't listen or even bother to talk to ROR about it.  Twerry 

ROR was not perfect - he was a party animal, but he was not an agitator.  He came to work early and he stayed late, and he should have had the C when it became available.  This was proven by his performance in St Louis.  

ROR  is the exact opposite of Jeff Skinner as a player.  

[sabrefanday1]

Of course you know exactly what you will get with Skinner. He is as advertised...and just about evey rteam needs someone like him. Hell, Leafs have many like him. Score but not do much else. Having said that, his scoring has been a big help this season, as at least he is a consistent scorer from year to year...MItts has not been scoring like he was and of ocourse Tage and Cozens are way down so if we trade Skinner where does scoring come from? And he is the closest thing we have to a agitator which is also another thing this team needs badly.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Jeff Skinner is a floater and a guy that can score goals.  He is a one way player that was was shipped out of Carolina because they built a lineup where everyone is a two way player.    He is not a core leader for being a veteran player.  Given his tenure in Buffalo, the fact he does not have a letter speaks volumes.   I would trade him at the first opportunity, which may never come up.  

ROR did not agitate when he said he was losing his love of the game.  It was speaking the truth, directly and openly after another bad season playing on a team that was rudderless.  The media blew up the story, and Terry Pegula, our leader,  could not handle the truth.  Terry ran off the best player on the team because he didn't listen or even bother to talk to ROR about it.  Twerry 

ROR was not perfect - he was a party animal, but he was not an agitator.  He came to work early and he stayed late, and he should have had the C when it became available.  This was proven by his performance in St Louis.  

ROR  is the exact opposite of Jeff Skinner as a player.  

Skinner is many things. I would never call him a floater as one of them.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Skinner is many things. I would never call him a floater as one of them.

He is a huge floater when going back to the defensive zone and in the defensive zone.   He is a one way player. 

[Doohickie]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He is a huge floater when going back to the defensive zone and in the defensive zone.   He is a one way player. 

There was a tweet yesterday that showed a clip of Skinner jawing at a ref.  From that 2 second clip, a podcaster (former ref Tim Peel) and Roenick went into how Skinner is always complaining and the league, including his teammates hate, him, with Peel proclaiming at the end "He was an @hole."

I replied that that's what I want players on other teams to say about players on my team, and in Skinner's case he's at his best when he's agitating.

When people talk about Skinner's value, they talk about how he's a one-way player, he's a goal scorer, he's got unique skating skills, but one thing people forget is he's one of those players that can really get under the skin of the other team and that definitely helps the Sabres in intangible ways (and tangible ways like drawing penalties).

The player that strikes me the same way is Zach Benson.  He still takes too many penalties himself, but you see opponents try to put him in his place and he bounces right back up and doesn't back down.  It's that same Skinnerish attitude.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

There was a tweet yesterday that showed a clip of Skinner jawing at a ref.  From that 2 second clip, a podcaster (former ref Tim Peel) and Roenick went into how Skinner is always complaining and the league, including his teammates hate, him, with Peel proclaiming at the end "He was an @hole."

I replied that that's what I want players on other teams to say about players on my team, and in Skinner's case he's at his best when he's agitating.

When people talk about Skinner's value, they talk about how he's a one-way player, he's a goal scorer, he's got unique skating skills, but one thing people forget is he's one of those players that can really get under the skin of the other team and that definitely helps the Sabres in intangible ways (and tangible ways like drawing penalties).

The player that strikes me the same way is Zach Benson.  He still takes too many penalties himself, but you see opponents try to put him in his place and he bounces right back up and doesn't back down.  It's that same Skinnerish attitude.

Skinner's value might drop off quickly before his contract is up. I need him as a consistent 30 goal scorer to be of value. BUT, is he a 'floater' coming back to his own zone? Yes.  I have seen replays of goals scored against the Sabres where on the way back he LITERALLY stopped at the blue line, doing a semi 'goal hang' instead of playing defense.  HOWEVER, what I also don't see from Skinner is when he IS in the defensive zone (and he is sometimes) he doesn't give the puck away, doesn't vacate his wing leaving it wide open for other opportunities, and he actually DOES win some loose puck battles (not because of his size of course, but more because of his hands).   

OVERALL he is net 'negative' in terms of D-zone play, but at 30 goals per year his offense more than makes up for that. He is one of the few players who will go to the front of the opponents net AND he has the skill/hands to put the puck in the net. As long as he is giving this team 25-30+ goals per season...and as you said, doing some 'agitating', I'm happy with him being here (I'm for sure not shipping him off for a 'bag of pucks' and in no way do I think this team gets better by him simply not being here.)

Edited February 27 by mjd1001

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

Imogene:

 

You should be aware that the youngsters on this forum have no clue who Imogene is. If you bring up the name of Sid Caesar, the youngsters are more likely to believe that he is a Roman character who spends a lot of time on a horse holding a spear and a shield.

 

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwTC6uMjFg9OIvzkxRSE5MLU4sUijOyC8HAHfgCP4&q=sid+caesar+show&oq=sid+ceas&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j46i10i433i512j46i10i512j0i10i512j46i10i340i512l3j0i10i512l2.13918j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:14b56ea9,vid:03VOs3HRi5M,st:0

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

There was a tweet yesterday that showed a clip of Skinner jawing at a ref.  From that 2 second clip, a podcaster (former ref Tim Peel) and Roenick went into how Skinner is always complaining and the league, including his teammates hate, him, with Peel proclaiming at the end "He was an @hole."

I replied that that's what I want players on other teams to say about players on my team, and in Skinner's case he's at his best when he's agitating.

When people talk about Skinner's value, they talk about how he's a one-way player, he's a goal scorer, he's got unique skating skills, but one thing people forget is he's one of those players that can really get under the skin of the other team and that definitely helps the Sabres in intangible ways (and tangible ways like drawing penalties).

The player that strikes me the same way is Zach Benson.  He still takes too many penalties himself, but you see opponents try to put him in his place and he bounces right back up and doesn't back down.  It's that same Skinnerish attitude.

Good Skinner - He is a fantastic skater, his edgework and balance are phenomenal. He is mouthy on the ice and at his best he gets under opponents skin and draws penalties at times.  Sure, every team wants a player or two that does this, who cares if the other team hates him.  He has a very good shot and is a finisher on a good line.  A natural goal scorer

Bad Skinner - ever watch him get back on defense?  He is terrible, quite often slow and with little effort.  Ever watch him in the defensive zone on a breakout?  He is almost always not in position and he floats around holding his stick in the air - off of the ice - with two hands.  He is content to spend time roaming in the neutral zone while his line mates are working to help break out the puck.   Most of the time he does not care about defense.  When he does he shows he can play it, but he very often does not.  Passing - he all to often throws the around puck around recklessly, although he has the skills to make good passes, he often does not.  He cannot be counted on for the Power Play, and he never plays on the PK.  

Overall Skinner - An enigma.  He will likely finish his career with 400+ goals and still be a minus player.  Zero playoff appearances in 14 years and counting.  

Benson - To me he is the exact opposite of Skinner, other than his size I see nothing in common.  Benson already plays a good two game and show better hockey IQ at 18 years old.  Benson's shot and his scoring ability is currently far behind Skinner right now.   It is likely that with size/strength and experience his scoring ability will improve.   Half of Benson penalties are garbage calls with the refs picking on the rookie. He has 11 minors, look them up if you don't believe.  When he gets feisty he does not talk like Skinner constantly does, he just keeps battling.   Battling is not talking. 

So I think we have a different take.  

 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

Imogene:

 

 

[JohnC]

22 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Good Skinner - He is a fantastic skater, his edgework and balance are phenomenal. He is mouthy on the ice and at his best he gets under opponents skin and draws penalties at times.  Sure, every team wants a player or two that does this, who cares if the other team hates him.  He has a very good shot and is a finisher on a good line.  A natural goal scorer

Bad Skinner - ever watch him get back on defense?  He is terrible, quite often slow and with little effort.  Ever watch him in the defensive zone on a breakout?  He is almost always not in position and he floats around holding his stick in the air - off of the ice - with two hands.  He is content to spend time roaming in the neutral zone while his line mates are working to help break out the puck.   Most of the time he does not care about defense.  When he does he shows he can play it, but he very often does not.  Passing - he all to often throws the around puck around recklessly, although he has the skills to make good passes, he often does not.  He cannot be counted on for the Power Play, and he never plays on the PK.  

Overall Skinner - An enigma.  He will likely finish his career with 400+ goals and still be a minus player.  Zero playoff appearances in 14 years and counting.  

Benson - To me he is the exact opposite of Skinner, other than his size I see nothing in common.  Benson already plays a good two game and show better hockey IQ at 18 years old.  Benson's shot and his scoring ability is currently far behind Skinner right now.   It is likely that with size/strength and experience his scoring ability will improve.   Half of Benson penalties are garbage calls with the refs picking on the rookie. He has 11 minors, look them up if you don't believe.  When he gets feisty he does not talk like Skinner constantly does, he just keeps battling.   Battling is not talking. 

So I think we have a different take.  

 

Benson is an intriguing prospect. Right now, even though his offensive production is minimal, he is not a liability on the ice. As you noted, he plays a responsible two- way game. Although I don't see him ever being a prolific scorer, I do see him being a good two-way third line player who can score 15 plus goals a season. In another couple of years when he gets stronger, he will become a mainstay player for us. I can envision him on a line with Krebs and another good winger. I like this guy a lot. 

[Buffalonill]

So no update ? 

Love buffalo Coverage 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Benson is an intriguing prospect. Right now, even though his offensive production is minimal, he is not a liability on the ice. As you noted, he plays a responsible two- way game. Although I don't see him ever being a prolific scorer, I do see him being a good two-way third line player who can score 15 plus goals a season. In another couple of years when he gets stronger, he will become a mainstay player for us. I can envision him on a line with Krebs and another good winger. I like this guy a lot. 

I see more upside in his scoring.  I can see him score 30.  His play will create chances for line mates.  He just has to get a man shot, and he will.  He will get strong someday. 

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Benson - To me he is the exact opposite of Skinner

The only quality I was comparing between the two is the ability to agitate the opponent.

[Pimlach]

24 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The only quality I was comparing between the two is the ability to agitate the opponent.

yes, they can both do that. 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

You should be aware that the youngsters on this forum have no clue who Imogene is. If you bring up the name of Sid Caesar, the youngsters are more likely to believe that he is a Roman character who spends a lot of time on a horse holding a spear and a shield.

 

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwTC6uMjFg9OIvzkxRSE5MLU4sUijOyC8HAHfgCP4&q=sid+caesar+show&oq=sid+ceas&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j46i10i433i512j46i10i512j0i10i512j46i10i340i512l3j0i10i512l2.13918j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:14b56ea9,vid:03VOs3HRi5M,st:0

Their loss.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Their loss.

More old era humor: 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rodney+dangerfield+the+tonight+show&oq=rodney+dangerfield+the+t&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j46i512j0i22i30l7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:82967a91,vid:MjHsay6P_J4,st:0