Benson - Keep him here

[PerreaultForever]

45 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Let’s turn that fear into Benson infusing the team with his hate to lose attitude instead. 

I hear you, but are we really asking the 18 year old to lead the rest of them? wtf is wrong with them if that's necessary. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Not bad for a little furball.

[Pimlach]

58 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

Gross 

I thought you were a Star Wars fan?  

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

I thought you were a Star Wars fan?  

Of course. But I’m admittedly not the biggest fan of the Ewoks, and their sudden intrusion into the world of Galadriel and Frodo caught me off guard 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Of course. But I’m admittedly not the biggest fan of the Ewoks, and their sudden intrusion into the world of Galadriel and Frodo caught me off guard 

Don't know anything about the stuff in bold. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Don't know anything about the stuff in bold. 

That's the problem Punch, no rings for the Sabres. 

[K-9]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I hear you, but are we really asking the 18 year old to lead the rest of them? wtf is wrong with them if that's necessary. 

I’m not asking him to do that, but the example he is setting is superior to many players on the team, so there’s that.

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I hear you, but are we really asking the 18 year old to lead the rest of them? wtf is wrong with them if that's necessary. 

This points out a big problem with the Sabres.  It’s no wonder so many fans here get immediately attracted to Benson and, I dare say,  Eric Robinson.  They are miles apart in talent but they both are still fresh from the outside of the Sabre hockey culture.  They both play like they care and that gets noticed.  

It should NOT be noticeable that they care.   That should already BE the culture. 

[Doohickie]

On 12/16/2023 at 7:47 PM, Derrico said:

I’m good with keeping benson with Tuch and Thompson for now but curious to see how he looks with Quinn later in the year. 

[Brawndo]

8 hours ago, Thorny said:

No way! Think of the message that sends to the rest of this roster about the organization’s failure to prioritize winning. If he’s one of our best players, he needs to stay. Results of the team were supposed to take priority this season. Especially considering we clearly aren’t hampering his development by keeping him. This shouldn’t be a “hey go enjoy a holiday break from this dogfight, kid, you earned it.”

Gross 

The playoffs are toast for this team. 
 

They are what their record says they are.  For a front office that decided to run it back, almost everything needed to go perfectly. It most certainly hasn’t. 

Their top line has one player on IR in Skinner and two others in Tage and Tuch who both came back too early from their injuries and aren’t close to 100%

They have three players in VO, Jost and Murray who shouldn’t be in the lineup mudh less together as a line. 
 

The coaching staff continues to run the Dahlin-Samuelsson Pairing out even though Mattias is best suited for a 3rd pairing. 
That’s when they are not playing 11-7.

The roster is sending its own message by having a 1-9-2 record after wins, they are not good enough. If taking an 18 yo off the roster for 14 days is going to be that much of a detriment to the team, the playoffs were a fallacy to begin with
 

Jiri Kulich has been loaned and the Amerks are actually in the playoff chase. 
 

He would miss five games during the WJCs. Loan Him, let him live a dream of playing for Team Canada. The NHL will be here when he gets back. 

 

 

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The playoffs are toast for this team. 
 

They are what their record says they are.  For a front office that decided to run it back, almost everything needed to go perfectly. It most certainly hasn’t. 

Their top line has one player on IR in Skinner and two others in Tage and Tuch who both came back too early from their injuries and aren’t close to 100%

They have three players in VO, Jost and Murray who shouldn’t be in the lineup mudh less together as a line. 
 

The coaching staff continues to run the Dahlin-Samuelsson Pairing out even though Mattias is best suited for a 3rd pairing. 
That’s when they are not playing 11-7.

The roster is sending its own message by having a 1-9-2 record after wins, they are not good enough. If taking an 18 yo off the roster for 14 days is going to be that much of a detriment to the team, the playoffs were a fallacy to begin with
 

Jiri Kulich has been loaned and the Amerks are actually in the playoff chase. 
 

He would miss five games during the WJCs. Loan Him, let him live a dream of playing for Team Canada. The NHL will be here when he gets back. 

 

 

I’m all for letting a kid “live his dream” but are we 100% sure that’s what he wants? 

[Archie Lee]

7 hours ago, K-9 said:

I’m all for letting a kid “live his dream” but are we 100% sure that’s what he wants? 

What 18 year old would choose to leave his NHL team and teammates?  It has nothing to do with what he wants, it has to do with what is best for him (for the record, I don't think they have made this decision based on what he wants). 

Benson is 17th in rookie scoring.  He is not on the radar for the Calder Trophy.  If the NHL had an all-rookie team, he would be on its 3rd line.  I recognize that he has a mature two-way game, but does this team's season really hinge on the performance of the 17th highest scoring rookie in the league?  Things have gotten so bad that an 18 year old who is not on the Calder radar and is not in the top 15 of rookie scorers, is one of our best and most consistent players?  We had to burn a year of his entry level deal, deprive him of not one but possibly two opportunities of a lifetime (the World Juniors and a chance to win the Calder next year), just so he could be one of the best players on an underachieving team. 

Nobody, outside of a narrow group of Sabre fans who have decided they are fine with the team rushing this prospect, would fault the Sabres for sending Benson back to junior. 

 

 

 

[Archie Lee]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

No way! Think of the message that sends to the rest of this roster about the organization’s failure to prioritize winning. If he’s one of our best players, he needs to stay. Results of the team were supposed to take priority this season. Especially considering we clearly aren’t hampering his development by keeping him. This shouldn’t be a “hey go enjoy a holiday break from this dogfight, kid, you earned it.”

Gross 

What message was sent to the roster in the off-season when Quinn was injured and everyone knew that the organization had lost faith in Olofsson and with rumblings that Tuch's health was precarious and with the league's deepest prospect pool and with 7-8 million in cap space, they opted for a competition in camp between rookies to fill a vacant top 6 position on the team?  In this, seemingly, most critical of seasons, the message I think was clear:  management did not consider this a critical season.  No help is coming.

Benson the player and person is not the issue:  he is a breath of fresh air.  That he was even an option for this team, in this season, is the issue. Now they are doubling down on their mistake.

 

1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Archie Lee

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The playoffs are toast for this team. 
 

They are what their record says they are.  For a front office that decided to run it back, almost everything needed to go perfectly. It most certainly hasn’t. 

Their top line has one player on IR in Skinner and two others in Tage and Tuch who both came back too early from their injuries and aren’t close to 100%

They have three players in VO, Jost and Murray who shouldn’t be in the lineup mudh less together as a line. 
 

The coaching staff continues to run the Dahlin-Samuelsson Pairing out even though Mattias is best suited for a 3rd pairing. 
That’s when they are not playing 11-7.

The roster is sending its own message by having a 1-9-2 record after wins, they are not good enough. If taking an 18 yo off the roster for 14 days is going to be that much of a detriment to the team, the playoffs were a fallacy to begin with
 

Jiri Kulich has been loaned and the Amerks are actually in the playoff chase. 
 

He would miss five games during the WJCs. Loan Him, let him live a dream of playing for Team Canada. The NHL will be here when he gets back. 

 

 

I am in favor of loaning him to the WJC if he wants to go. Buffalo won't make the playoffs and will be drafting in the top 10 again regardless of if Benson is gone for 5 games or not. Send the kid and let him have some fun. 

[LGR4GM]

54 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

What 18 year old would choose to leave his NHL team and teammates?  It has nothing to do with what he wants, it has to do with what is best for him (for the record, I don't think they have made this decision based on what he wants). 

Benson is 17th in rookie scoring.  He is not on the radar for the Calder Trophy.  If the NHL had an all-rookie team, he would be on its 3rd line.  I recognize that he has a mature two-way game, but does this team's season really hinge on the performance of the 17th highest scoring rookie in the league?  Things have gotten so bad that an 18 year old who is not on the Calder radar and is not in the top 15 of rookie scorers, is one of our best and most consistent players?  We had to burn a year of his entry level deal, deprive him of not one but possibly two opportunities of a lifetime (the World Juniors and a chance to win the Calder next year), just so he could be one of the best players on an underachieving team. 

Nobody, outside of a narrow group of Sabre fans who have decided they are fine with the team rushing this prospect, would fault the Sabres for sending Benson back to junior. 

Rookie scoring is such a bad argument. Some NHL rookies are 25 and some are 18 like Benson. Saying where he is in that rookie scoring race is borderline meaningless IMPO. 

Sending Benson back to his jr team at this stage would be dumb. 

[K-9]

51 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

What 18 year old would choose to leave his NHL team and teammates?  It has nothing to do with what he wants, it has to do with what is best for him (for the record, I don't think they have made this decision based on what he wants). 

Benson is 17th in rookie scoring.  He is not on the radar for the Calder Trophy.  If the NHL had an all-rookie team, he would be on its 3rd line.  I recognize that he has a mature two-way game, but does this team's season really hinge on the performance of the 17th highest scoring rookie in the league?  Things have gotten so bad that an 18 year old who is not on the Calder radar and is not in the top 15 of rookie scorers, is one of our best and most consistent players?  We had to burn a year of his entry level deal, deprive him of not one but possibly two opportunities of a lifetime (the World Juniors and a chance to win the Calder next year), just so he could be one of the best players on an underachieving team. 

Nobody, outside of a narrow group of Sabre fans who have decided they are fine with the team rushing this prospect, would fault the Sabres for sending Benson back to junior. 

 

 

 

I’m not faulting the Sabres one way or the other. Nor do I think it has anything to do with what he wants if he stays or goes. I was addressing the projection that the Sabres are depriving him of his dream by not loaning him to team Canada for the U20 worlds. I’d be just fine with it if they did. 

And he doesn’t appear to have been rushed at all to this point. He’s holding his own in the best league in the world. Your arbitrary insistence that Calder Cup contention has something to do with that notwithstanding. 

[Derrico]

45 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

What message was sent to the roster in the off-season when Quinn was injured and everyone knew that the organization had lost faith in Olofsson and with rumblings that Tuch's health was precarious and with the league's deepest prospect pool and with 7-8 million in cap space, they opted for a competition in camp between rookies to fill a vacant top 6 position on the team?  In this, seemingly, most critical of seasons, the message I think was clear:  management did not consider this a critical season.  No help is coming.

Benson the player and person is not the issue:  he is a breath of fresh air.  That he was even an option for this team, in this season, is the issue. Now they are doubling down on their mistake.

 

 

Yep.  It was an unbelievably frustrating offseason watching GMKA reluctance to do much of anything.  All of these issues looked obvious to most fans yet KA basically sat on his hands.  Frankly, I’m surprised KA isn’t taking more heat right now.  This years failure is more on him than anyone else. 

[Archie Lee]

30 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m not faulting the Sabres one way or the other. Nor do I think it has anything to do with what he wants if he stays or goes. I was addressing the projection that the Sabres are depriving him of his dream by not loaning him to team Canada for the U20 worlds. I’d be just fine with it if they did. 

And he doesn’t appear to have been rushed at all to this point. He’s holding his own in the best league in the world. Your arbitrary insistence that Calder Cup contention has something to do with that notwithstanding. 

I'm not insisting on anything.  Just expressing my view that the threshold for a non-playoff team to keep an 18 year old in the NHL who was not a top 5 pick should be higher than "he's holding his own".

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Rookie scoring is such a bad argument. Some NHL rookies are 25 and some are 18 like Benson. Saying where he is in that rookie scoring race is borderline meaningless IMPO. 

Sending Benson back to his jr team at this stage would be dumb. 

Precisely.  Why the rush?

[LGR4GM]

59 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

What 18 year old would choose to leave his NHL team and teammates?  It has nothing to do with what he wants, it has to do with what is best for him (for the record, I don't think they have made this decision based on what he wants). 

Benson is 17th in rookie scoring.  He is not on the radar for the Calder Trophy.  If the NHL had an all-rookie team, he would be on its 3rd line.  I recognize that he has a mature two-way game, but does this team's season really hinge on the performance of the 17th highest scoring rookie in the league?  Things have gotten so bad that an 18 year old who is not on the Calder radar and is not in the top 15 of rookie scorers, is one of our best and most consistent players?  We had to burn a year of his entry level deal, deprive him of not one but possibly two opportunities of a lifetime (the World Juniors and a chance to win the Calder next year), just so he could be one of the best players on an underachieving team. 

Nobody, outside of a narrow group of Sabre fans who have decided they are fine with the team rushing this prospect, would fault the Sabres for sending Benson back to junior. 

I wasn't done with this post. It bothers me too much. Benson is 15th in rookie scoring if you go by points per game which you should. 

Now let's look at all the players in front of Zach Benson... only 5 of those players are teenagers and only 1 other player is 18 (Connor Bedard). Benson is currently getting the 11th most TOI of the 18 players I pulled from the rookie scoring race. 10 Players ahead of him get more TOI and TOI directly correlates to scoring. SO while getting less opportunity and being the 2nd youngest rookie in the class, Zach Benson sits right around 13th in pts per60 as well. What's my point? The rookie scoring race is a false idol because the players are not the same age and are not given the same opportunities. Well looking at opportunities and pts, it looks like Benson right around where you would hope an 18yr old would be. Especially when he is on a team that has one of the worst PP in the league and Benson has 0 PP points. In fact the only person on this 18 player list with 0 pp points is Zach Benson. If we just look at even scoring, Benson is tied for 11th and the difference between 11th and 6th is 2 entire points. Pretty good for an 18yr old on a bad team. 

Zach Benson isn't being rushed. I'd like to see him go to the world jrs.

Quote

Nobody, outside of a narrow group of Sabre fans who have decided they are fine with the team rushing this prospect, would fault the Sabres for sending Benson back to junior. 

This part of your post in nonsensical. Sending Benson back to jrs now makes no sense at all. You already burned a year of his ELC and I suppose they could care about the 40games needed for accrued service towards UFA but they shouldn't. Everyone should fault the Sabres for sending Benson back were they to do it. It would be a waste and silly short sighted decision by management. 

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm not insisting on anything.  Just expressing my view that the threshold for a non-playoff team to keep an 18 year old in the NHL who was not a top 5 pick should be higher than "he's holding his own".

Precisely.  Why the rush?

What? This question has no basis in logic. You bring guys up when they can contribute to the NHL not when they could be in the running for the calder (which btw is and was always Connor Bedard's to lose).

[Archie Lee]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I wasn't done with this post. It bothers me too much. Benson is 15th in rookie scoring if you go by points per game which you should. 

Now let's look at all the players in front of Zach Benson... only 5 of those players are teenagers and only 1 other player is 18 (Connor Bedard). Benson is currently getting the 11th most TOI of the 18 players I pulled from the rookie scoring race. 10 Players ahead of him get more TOI and TOI directly correlates to scoring. SO while getting less opportunity and being the 2nd youngest rookie in the class, Zach Benson sits right around 13th in pts per60 as well. What's my point? The rookie scoring race is a false idol because the players are not the same age and are not given the same opportunities. Well looking at opportunities and pts, it looks like Benson right around where you would hope an 18yr old would be. Especially when he is on a team that has one of the worst PP in the league and Benson has 0 PP points. In fact the only person on this 18 player list with 0 pp points is Zach Benson. If we just look at even scoring, Benson is tied for 11th and the difference between 11th and 6th is 2 entire points. Pretty good for an 18yr old on a bad team. 

Zach Benson isn't being rushed. I'd like to see him go to the world jrs.

This part of your post in nonsensical. Sending Benson back to jrs now makes no sense at all. You already burned a year of his ELC and I suppose they could care about the 40games needed for accrued service towards UFA but they shouldn't. Everyone should fault the Sabres for sending Benson back were they to do it. It would be a waste and silly short sighted decision by management. 

What? This question has no basis in logic. You bring guys up when they can contribute to the NHL not when they could be in the running for the calder (which btw is and was always Connor Bedard's to lose).

Benson could be playing 20-25 minutes a night, getting power play, penalty kill and last minute work in critical games while being a leader on a contending junior team and a world junior favorite. Instead he is getting 15 minutes a night with limited special team time on what to this point in the season has been a bad NHL team.  We 100% disagree on how this should have been handled.  Fair enough.  It's all good.

Cheers.

 

[K-9]

33 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm not insisting on anything.  Just expressing my view that the threshold for a non-playoff team to keep an 18 year old in the NHL who was not a top 5 pick should be higher than "he's holding his own".

Precisely.  Why the rush?

“Top 5 pick” is just another arbitrary metric. 

As for that higher threshold, does the fact that he’s been one of our better and most consistent players all season matter at all? 

[DarthEbriate]

If you want Benson to be in the Calder-running, just keep him in Skinner's spot, including on PP1. 40 games with TNT and Tuch (provided they regain health) will get Benson into the top-3 in voting.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm not insisting on anything.  Just expressing my view that the threshold for a non-playoff team to keep an 18 year old in the NHL who was not a top 5 pick should be higher than "he's holding his own".

Precisely.  Why the rush?

Who cares? No really, who cares? Your draft position means almost nothing the second you leave the draft stage. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Benson could be playing 20-25 minutes a night, getting power play, penalty kill and last minute work in critical games while being a leader on a contending junior team and a world junior favorite. Instead he is getting 15 minutes a night with limited special team time on what to this point in the season has been a bad NHL team.  We 100% disagree on how this should have been handled.  Fair enough.  It's all good.

Cheers.

Yes we disagree that a guy who already is too good for jrs should be in juniors again. I would rather he get good now, in a year where quite honestly it is already over, so next year you get a player who can do the Peterka jump. If the Sabres were better I might feel differently and I acknowledge the part of your argument that says we should have made it way harder for him to make the team. 

[Brawndo]