What Now?

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

The cold, hard truth. Rather than crying and bemoaning the loss of their gentle father, the players would be doing back flips if they ever got an NHL coach like Gallant. It's a business for them. And they want to win. These same players will also tell you they need an actual GM, or Kevyn needs to do his job.

You can take that to the bank. These are not wide eyed children.

Correct on the bold.  When Ulmark left you really could sense that.  Eichel wanted out, Reinhart and Montour had their talks with Adams and they preferred to leave as well.   They were not living through another rebuild in Buffalo.   Why would Tage, Dahlin, and Tuch, feel any different?    

I like Gallant.  We could use him.   He was a pain in the ass to play against and as a coach he has a history of run-ins with management.  Many NHL coaches do.   They know their shelf life is short so they want things their way.  

I think he would relate to our players and get them going.  Even if if he lasts 3 years, his proven track record is enough to help us get to the next level, a playoff team that looks and acts like a playoff team.   Why is that so hard?  

[Marvin]

I think the problem is personnel.  Ideally, the organisation should be 5 forward lines, 4 defence pairs, and 3 goalkeepers deep of at least passable NHL players without any dead weight.  Any youth there should be close to NHL-ready.

And therein lies the problem.  The forwards have at least 1 consensus player who is dead weight.  The youth that can be called up are too young to be truly NHL-ready.  The team is debatably zero deep in NHL goaltenders.  IMHO, that is on the GM.

[Pimlach]

On 11/14/2023 at 8:53 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

The waiting for Levi plan isn’t working.

The forwards are lost and injuries continue to hamper the group.

The PP is a mess.  

This team is teetering on oblivion after just 16 games.

The Bruins proved tonight that the distance between the 2 teams is the Grand Canyon.

What now? Fire coaches? Bring up Rosen and Kulich? Trade for forward help?  Hope Quinn returns early somehow! 

I have not answered the OP yet. 

Levi - I might give Levi another game or two, we kind of have to with Comrie still out.  If Levi struggles, which he most likely will,  then he needs to go down to Rochester for awhile, play a lot, and rebuild his confidence and sharpen his game.  No doubt that Adams and DG can talk to him and keep his head on straight.  No shame in that either.  Any normal team would already have him in their minor league system right now anyway.  

Forwards - I wanted a few veteran additions, especially when Quinn went down.   Really need a two way center that can play NHL hockey, and a tough winger to help with the inevitable nasty stuff.   Can't have Cozens and Tuch doing that.  We just don't have the right diversity of skills at forward.  

Power play - Last year it was deadly for awhile, teams figured it out and now they have regressed even further.   No one really knows who coaches this unit either, at least I don't.  

Not sure they are teetering on oblivion, see how they react without Tage.  Maybe someone steps up.  They just need to stay at .500 until the injuries subside.  

I do not blame Granato for the injuries or the glaring roster weaknesses, but he has not had them ready to play very often - they have played maybe 2 really good games.  It looks like they cannot score often enough when they try to play a defensive system.   I will never understand why he is taking 3 years to put in a system that includes team defense.   Some of his problems are injuries and the fact that the bottom 6 is playing much worse this year. 

Laviolette installed his system in one off season.  Hmmm, what an idea!   Right now the Rangers are on a 10 game streak without a loss. They have a +16 scoring diff.  Good thing Mike Peca is there learning from a Cup winner.  

Granato gets evaluated on Jan 1. 

Adams is the guy that is most responsible for the current situation.  

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Pimlach

[LabattBlue]

57 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The team is debatably zero deep in NHL goaltenders.  IMHO, that is on the GM.

Goaltending is by far the biggest problem today followed closely by team defense(regardless of the root problem being players or coaches). 

[Believer]

10 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Goaltending is by far the biggest problem today followed closely by team defense(regardless of the root problem being players or coaches). 

I’d say the biggest problem today is offensive play… Passing, shooting, scoring… Our anemic PP is one consequence.

[Thorny]

I think the lesson we should take is that it’s all-around roster construction, still. Last year our forwards weren’t “fine” contrary to popular sentiment as much 2 way play was being ignored. This year, part of the reason the forwards are now considered the issue is because we are sacrificing offence to aid the defence. Fortifications at ANY position would greatly aid this team and we have some good players but also plenty of areas for improvement.

There’s no sense pinning our struggles on one facet as, particularly in a free flowing game like hockey, the facets of the game all meld together 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The biggest issue with this team is actually the offense as @Believer wrote.  

Our PP is 29th in the NHL at 10.9%.  To make matters worse we are -14 in penalties against vs penalties for. In fact, we have had the 3rd most penalties (61) called on us and only 47 (25th in the NHL) called against our opponents.   

These stats illustrate some fundamental issues.  1) We aren't driving play enough to get penalties called against our opponents and we are on our heals often getting penalties called against us.  The PP reflects our passive approach as well. 

Some of these issues are roster construction.   Our bottom 6 has been unable (or unwilling) or incapable of driving play.  We simply can't afford two failed lines and expect to compete.  Another issue is the team's inability on all lines to create consistent traffic in front of the net.

While this is a very "young" team, given that they were able to do the things last year, it's not unreasonable to think they can do it again this year.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I do not think Goaltending is this teams biggest problem. what i see:

Levi - has been left out to dry on most of his goals. Absolutely stole the Min game.

6K - has been playing more good then bad.

Comrie - was playing well before he got hurt.

- Team looks slow and very slow to make decisions. By the time they actually make them, the hole and or opportunity is and has already closed. (Also effects the PP!!!)

- Players are 100% are not paying attention to what is happening around them. Allowing 3-1 breaks means they are thinking one dimensional. 

- Chasing the puck instead of just playing defense. Just play your damn defensive game and stop chasing player around the parameter!!  They are not going to score from there!

- we may have bigger players but they do not play big. We need a TRUE power forward that goes straight the the front of the net. If this is a coaching problem, then the coach needs to change.

- Go to the damn front of the net!!! Both the O and D are horrible at it. O is scared the the D when they do are not physical, just stick check!! WTF we have a majority of pusses!!! Grow a pair and play fundamental hockey!! 

- Management is more reactive than proactive. All teams make bad choices, ,but we seem to make them more and hold onto garbage players. Cut losses and move on!

 

This team is not far off. I  honestly do not think we need more vets either. Playing kids with starters that are worthless to begin with is setting them up to fail. (not meaning to be so harsh). I forgot to add shoot the damn puck!!! So tired of the extra useless pass that's done way too way too late and wastes a scoring chance. 

 

Ok, done ranting!! Made it through the Bruins game relatively quiet and did not break a thing!!! Cannot wait for Friday!! Go Sabres!!!

 

[Thorny]

We can parse whether the goaltending is THE issue or simply an issue but at the end of the day it’s definitely been an area significantly lacking since Ullmark left. Regardless of the aptitude of the other positions. 

[French Collection]

58 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

- Team looks slow and very slow to make decisions. By the time they actually make them, the hole and or opportunity is and has already closed. (Also effects the PP!!!)

I find they have been going east-west way too much except for JJP. This probably is a factor in his his bump in production. Tuch is best when he utilizes his size and speed to zoom up and down the wing, forechecking the D into errors.

TNT is one of the worst offenders of slowing down in the neutral zone to dangle. Skinner has great edge work but he should use his speed to gain the zone first or draw D to him and dish to the open teammates.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Goaltending is by far the biggest problem today followed closely by team defense(regardless of the root problem being players or coaches). 

This is somewhere between ignorant and dishonest. 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Goaltending is by far the biggest problem today followed closely by team defense(regardless of the root problem being players or coaches). 

Would say a complete lack of a competent PP is the team's biggest issue.

The team's 2nd biggest issue is the team D is still way too accomodating to cross-ice and back door passes that leave the goalies hung out to dry.  

The team's 3rd biggest issue is being without an entire line's worth of top 6 F's combined with trying to play a more responsible defensive game is leaving them scoring too few goals on too many occassions.

The team's 4th biggest issue is that without both of the really long F's Thompson &/or Tuch disrupting passing lanes on the PK that the PK has been giving up a goal every game for the last 4 or 5.  When the PP is clicking at about 10%, the PP needs to be at 90% (IF the calls are going both ways, and so far this year, they aren't; young teams don't get calls and teams the refs still perceive as bad don't get calls either; they have to simply accept there's not much they can do to change either situation until they actually get some more win streaks together; chicken and egg issue) to keep from needing to dominate the scoring at 5v5 which they aren't doing right now.

 

MAYBE with Thompson out of the lineup the PP will be forced to become creative and thus useful.  Wouldn't put money on it, but we can hope.

The team D IS actually better than last season.  But the breakdowns are still major too often.  Expecting that will improve as the season goes on.

Don't know the answer to the 3rd issue short of getting healthy & getting more than one line clicking on any given night.

The 4th is going to be an issue until they get to a point that they trust the goalies to make the big save should they adjust to a more aggressive PK &/or both Thompson and Tuch are back and playing healthy.

 

But even with the issues, this team is still in the mix.  Get closer to last year's road team and they can muddle through while figuring out the home ice issues.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Would say a complete lack of a competent PP is the team's biggest issue.

The team's 2nd biggest issue is the team D is still way too accomodating to cross-ice and back door passes that leave the goalies hung out to dry.  

The team's 3rd biggest issue is being without an entire line's worth of top 6 F's combined with trying to play a more responsible defensive game is leaving them scoring too few goals on too many occassions.

The team's 4th biggest issue is that without both of the really long F's Thompson &/or Tuch disrupting passing lanes on the PK that the PK has been giving up a goal every game for the last 4 or 5.  When the PP is clicking at about 10%, the PP needs to be at 90% (IF the calls are going both ways, and so far this year, they aren't; young teams don't get calls and teams the refs still perceive as bad don't get calls either; they have to simply accept there's not much they can do to change either situation until they actually get some more win streaks together; chicken and egg issue) to keep from needing to dominate the scoring at 5v5 which they aren't doing right now.

 

MAYBE with Thompson out of the lineup the PP will be forced to become creative and thus useful.  Wouldn't put money on it, but we can hope.

The team D IS actually better than last season.  But the breakdowns are still major too often.  Expecting that will improve as the season goes on.

Don't know the answer to the 3rd issue short of getting healthy & getting more than one line clicking on any given night.

The 4th is going to be an issue until they get to a point that they trust the goalies to make the big save should they adjust to a more aggressive PK &/or both Thompson and Tuch are back and playing healthy.

 

But even with the issues, this team is still in the mix.  Get closer to last year's road team and they can muddle through while figuring out the home ice issues.

So you don’t think goaltending is among the teams biggest problems?  If so, we will agree to disagree. 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

So you don’t think goaltending is among the teams biggest problems?  If so, we will agree to disagree. 

Goaltending, for the most part, has been good enough.  Would it be great to have obtained say a Saros or even a Varlamov, yes.  Would it still be something that Adams should be looking to improve, yes.  As he should be looking to bring in about 3 other pieces as well.  But guarantee you that, were those other 4 issues fixed with the exact same goaltending they've gotten to date, they'd be above the NHL 0.600 they need to be at.  Just fix those top 2 and they're very likely there.

And, not saying that goaltending won't become the downfall should the team fail to reach the playoffs.  But, 16 games in, the team has had bigger problems than the goaltending.  

[FrenchConnection44]

3 hours ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

I do not think Goaltending is this teams biggest problem. what i see:

Levi - has been left out to dry on most of his goals. Absolutely stole the Min game.

6K - has been playing more good then bad.

Comrie - was playing well before he got hurt.

- Team looks slow and very slow to make decisions. By the time they actually make them, the hole and or opportunity is and has already closed. (Also effects the PP!!!)

- Players are 100% are not paying attention to what is happening around them. Allowing 3-1 breaks means they are thinking one dimensional. 

- Chasing the puck instead of just playing defense. Just play your damn defensive game and stop chasing player around the parameter!!  They are not going to score from there!

- we may have bigger players but they do not play big. We need a TRUE power forward that goes straight the the front of the net. If this is a coaching problem, then the coach needs to change.

- Go to the damn front of the net!!! Both the O and D are horrible at it. O is scared the the D when they do are not physical, just stick check!! WTF we have a majority of pusses!!! Grow a pair and play fundamental hockey!! 

- Management is more reactive than proactive. All teams make bad choices, ,but we seem to make them more and hold onto garbage players. Cut losses and move on!

 

This team is not far off. I  honestly do not think we need more vets either. Playing kids with starters that are worthless to begin with is setting them up to fail. (not meaning to be so harsh). I forgot to add shoot the damn puck!!! So tired of the extra useless pass that's done way too way too late and wastes a scoring chance. 

 

Ok, done ranting!! Made it through the Bruins game relatively quiet and did not break a thing!!! Cannot wait for Friday!! Go Sabres!!!

 

Generally agree. Especially agree about young guys playing with crap. Anyone who plays with Girgs and Okposo is going to look bad. We have some young centers with talent. Some of them may need to be wingers. But playing them with someone who can’t put the puck in the net makes them ineffective. 

We had two good lines last year:

Tuch-Tage-Skinner

Quinn-Cozens-JJ

Mitts is a good passing center with very good puck control and speed; but he needs wings that can score or be productive. 

Losing Quinn hurt. But then Granato’s experimental mixing and matching lines in the regular season was a big mistake. 
 

The Sabres’ young talent seems to be too long in development right now for that to help. But at the same time, a playoff run seems unlikely even with one or two trades. But by the time some of that talent can reach the NHL - and be effective (with no guarantees it will be) - Skinner will be diminishing and Tuch may need replacing when his deal is up. 
 

Personally, I’ve seen enough of Greenway to be done with him. He has very little offense. Maybe he can be a throw in with a deadline deal for another player. 

[SABRES 0311]

TANK ON! TANK ON!

[mjd1001]

Your top 4 goal scorers last year of course were Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, and Cozens. They totaled 149 goals in 312 games.  0.478 goals per game. (392. goals per 82)

This year those 4 guys have 21 goals in 62 total games played.  0.339 goals per game (27.8 goals per 82 pace)

If those same 4 guys were scoring at the same pace this year as they were last year, you would have 8-9 more goals scored this year. With 8-9 more goals sprinkled throughout there games played so far, would the record be a lot more respectable? Its probably worth a couple games. They have 15 points, if they had just 2 more wins, they would be tied for 11th overall in the league.

Does a coaching change get those top guys going (when Thompson gets back)?  I don't think so, but maybe, Not sure.  I know a big  problem I see with this team is scoring, the top guys aren't producing.  Bringing in a veteran, hard nosed coach who will get this team to play better Defense just doesn't sound right to me (Yet)