John Roth COO of the Sabres is no longer with the organization

[...]

33 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Because office folks are boning each other?

Are we being funny or are we asking a serious question?

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, ... said:

Are we being funny or are we asking a serious question?

Seriously funny 

[Eli Cash]

Incredible lack of diligence in the hiring process.  GMKA, HCDG, GMBB, and HCSM seem like good, honest people.  But, whiskey tango foxtrot on some of these recent hires.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Eli Cash

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Like, does tpegs not have ppl do the mandatory sexual harassment training we all do?

Quite possibly not.  It's not a huge corporation with tens of thousands of employees.  TPegs may think that it's given that everyone he hires would have the same morals more or less that he does.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, ... said:

In any organization culture is ultimately top down.

If that's the case, the firings were exactly the right thing to do in order to show the expected level of moral character.

[...]

18 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

If that's the case, the firings were exactly the right thing to do in order to show the expected level of moral character.

Well after the fact. There's a small history of Pegula not being the best judge of executives. When executives with bad judgement hire managers, what kind of manager do you suppose they'll hire? And when you have bad managers how do you think the staff performs? Systemic poor performance is usually a symptom of problems at the top.

Edited October 12, 2023 by ...
sssssssss

[Quint]

I'm available -- but only on a part-time basis. 

[shrader]

Who?

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, ... said:

Well after the fact. There's a small history of Pegula not being the best judge of executives.

What do you want him to do?  Ask the interviewee if they have affairs with people in the office?  Regardless of what the answer really is, the response will be no, of course not.  Do you expect TPegs to be clairvoyant?

[Pimlach]

Incredible.    He is infecting both teams. 
 

Pegula is quite a character.  

[That Aud Smell]

Wawrow reports that this was the result of a “romantic relationship” between the 2 executives. Seems to imply that this wasn’t an affair.

It’s said that the relationship was an issue because D’Angelo reported to Ross.

So much for Terry’s famous horizontal management structure.

Terry and Kim became a couple because of a workplace romance where he was her boss.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Wawrow reports that this was the result of a “romantic relationship” between the 2 executives. Seems to imply that this wasn’t an affair.

It’s said that the relationship was an issue because D’Angelo reported to Ross.

So much for Terry’s famous horizontal management structure.

Terry and Kim became a couple because of a workplace romance where he was her boss.

Yeah seems pretty GD hypocritical. 

[That Aud Smell]

8 minutes ago, inkman said:

Yeah seems pretty GD hypocritical. 

Absent more context, it sure does.

Maybe there was an anti-fraternization policy? That would make the terminations more justifiable, I guess. Even so, such a policy would arguably be just as hypocritical.

Well, now wait a second. That'd be a horse of a different colour.

 

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, inkman said:

Yeah seems pretty GD hypocritical. 

 

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

Absent more context, it sure does.

Maybe there was an anti-fraternization policy? That would make the terminations more justifiable, I guess. Even so, such a policy would arguably be just as hypocritical.

Not that I care much about this, but it’s a mistake to judge the events of the past based on today’s social norms.

If there was a policy against romantic relationships between people who are supervisors/reports of eachother, which basically every organization has nowadays, then these two were in the wrong, and their termination was justified, full stop.

Do you know if Terry Pegula’s company had such a policy in 1990ish?  I sure don’t.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Wawrow reports that this was the result of a “romantic relationship” between the 2 executives. Seems to imply that this wasn’t an affair.

It’s said that the relationship was an issue because D’Angelo reported to Ross.

So much for Terry’s famous horizontal management structure.

Terry and Kim became a couple because of a workplace romance where he was her boss.

Well,  they were apparently horizontal enough to create a problem.  
 

If either are married, it’s an affair.  If they are not married to other people, then ethical business issues are possible -  so this could have been fixed by simply changing  the org structure to have both report to him. There must be ethical issues to consider that are only known on the inside.  Terry has gushed over Roth in past interviews, citing his skill and leadership, and now this.  
 

 The AP reports that Roth and D’’Angelo reported to Terry, and Kim, and Laura Pegula.  Why Laura?  What is she in the organization?  

This is not the first flawed organization he has set up for his teams.  His first group to run the Sabres was a mess.  Terry does some weird and stupid things.  Right now he generates zero confidence that he can run a successful and winning organization - in my opinion. 

I sure hope Beane and Adams are shielded from all this.  

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

 

Not that I care much about this, but it’s a mistake to judge the events of the past based on today’s social norms.

If there was a policy against romantic relationships between people who are supervisors/reports of eachother, which basically every organization has nowadays, then these two were in the wrong, and their termination was justified, full stop.

Do you know if Terry Pegula’s company had such a policy in 1990ish?  I sure don’t.

That's just untrue.

OTOH, I would bet that, after the Russ Brandon debacle, Terry directed his lawyers to have covenants in the contracts for his C-level people that fraternizing with other employees would be grounds for termination.

 

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Well,  they were apparently horizontal enough to create a problem.  

Zing!

Try the veal, everyone.

[matter2003]

What's with Bills/Sabres employees not being able to keep it in their pants at work?

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The AP reports that Roth and D’’Angelo reported to Terry, and Kim, and Laura Pegula.  Why Laura?  What is she in the organization?  

It's been discussed here. Laura has taken on a significant role in the sports businesses since Kim became ill. I believe she's an alternate governor or something for one or both franchises?

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

This is not the first flawed organization he has set up for his teams.  His first group to run the Sabres was a mess.  Terry does some weird and stupid things.  Right now he generates zero confidence that he can run a successful and winning organization - in my opinion. 

100%.

The word "bumbling" comes to mind.

What he ought to do: Hire a boutique, high-level executive recruitment firm and entrust them with the hiring process. 

In the past, he's just trusted his instincts and identified leadership candidates on a happenstance basis. It ain't working.

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That's just untrue.

OTOH, I would bet that, after the Russ Brandon debacle, Terry directed his lawyers to have covenants in the contracts for his C-level people that fraternizing with other employees would be grounds for termination.

 

Ok, maybe you are right.  My main point was the stuff you said about it being hypocritical.

[Pimlach]

9 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It's been discussed here. Laura has taken on a significant role in the sports businesses since Kim became ill. I believe she's an alternate governor or something for one or both franchises?

Wow.  That inspires even more confidence in how Pegula does things.   

[Pimlach]

18 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It's been discussed here. Laura has taken on a significant role in the sports businesses since Kim became ill. I believe she's an alternate governor or something for one or both franchises?

100%.

The word "bumbling" comes to mind.

What he ought to do: Hire a boutique, high-level executive recruitment firm and entrust them with the hiring process. 

In the past, he's just trusted his instincts and identified leadership candidates on a happenstance basis. It ain't working.

Bumbling is pretty accurate. 
 

The problem I have with yet another high level organization shake up is that the truly well qualified people stay away from this kind of disfunction.   

[PASabreFan]

From TBN. Is this fact or opinion?

Two sources within the organizations told The News that Roth was involved in a romantic relationship with D’Angelo, which created an unethical situation because he had superior titles even if she did not report directly to him.

(Interesting that the first draft of this story stopped at "situation." An editor must have said, hey we need to explain why. It didn't help.)

[Doohickie]

31 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

This is not the first flawed organization he has set up for his teams.  His first group to run the Sabres was a mess.  Terry does some weird and stupid things.

I don't get the "This is all Terry's fault" conclusion many people are ending up at. 

A married couple that were friends of mine split up because because he had an affair.  Does the fact that he had an affair several years after I befriended them somehow reflect on my character?  This is basically what the people blaming Terry are doing- assigning blame to Terry for something he had no knowledge of when he hired Roth.

[That Aud Smell]

24 minutes ago, Curt said:

Ok, maybe you are right.  My main point was the stuff you said about it being hypocritical.

It's fair. As in, it's fair to say: Hey, East Resources of the 1990s was a small oil and gas operation. If Terry as the president wanted to hire a fresh-faced college grad and fall in love with her (and she him), nbd. No one much cared at the time, presumably. OTOH, the Buffalo Bills of the 2020s are a BIG effing deal - a very public-facing entity. The same standards don't apply.

20 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Wow.  That inspires even more confidence in how Pegula does things.   

Idk. She seems like a level-headed, serious person.

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

From TBN. Is this fact or opinion?

Two sources within the organizations told The News that Roth was involved in a romantic relationship with D’Angelo, which created an unethical situation because he had superior titles even if she did not report directly to him.

(Interesting that the first draft of this story stopped at "situation." An editor must have said, hey we need to explain why. It didn't help.)

Best I can tell, TBN doesn't even have those anymore.

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I don't get the "This is all Terry's fault" conclusion many people are ending up at. 

A married couple that were friends of mine split up because because he had an affair.  Does the fact that he had an affair several years after I befriended them somehow reflect on my character?  This is basically what the people blaming Terry are doing- assigning blame to Terry for something he had no knowledge of when he hired Roth.

It is Terry's fault because this is his responsibility: To hire people who will do the job, who can do the job, and who can do so in a way that comports with his expectations and, presumably, material covenants in their employment agreement(s).

He just keeps pulling people in that he's met along the way. "Y'know who'd be great here? [John / Ron ] from [Fidelity / AdPro ]. I love [John / Ron]! He's been great with our [investments / merchandise branding]. And he already knows how to run multiple business lines. He could learn on the job here."

And so on. These are not hiring good practices. It's an approach that can work out for you if (1) you're lucky and/or (2) you have really good instincts for getting rock solid people who will reliably act as your faithful agents. Terry's got neither of those things, apparently.

[Doohickie]

I still don't know how you can blame Terry for someone else not being able to keep his schlong in his pants.