Some troubling comments attributed to Terry Pegula (and denied by Pegula) and Jerry Jones from SI Writer Jim Trotter’s Lawsuit against the NFL

[That Aud Smell]

Hoo boy. The butchery of language continues unabated under John Roth. (A pet theory I've developed: I think he pens these things.)

Sentence the first:

"The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false."

It's false how? It's false that black athletes who push civil rights issues should go back to Africa? That's a thing that is untrue and should not be said? Or are you saying that "I did not say that." Because it's unclear, Terry. Also, Terry, are you preparing to throw someone else under the bus? The phrase "attributed to me" sounds an awful lot like you agree it was said, but you weren't the one to say it.

"I am horrified that anyone would connect me to an allegation of this kind."

Da fuq? There are so many words to pick here. Horrified? Hey, Terry. It's horrifying when mortifying truths come to light too. You did not want that word here. Oof.

"Racism has no place in our society"

[Golf clap.]

"and I am personally disgusted that my name is associated with this complaint."

Is there another way to be disgusted that plays here? From a professional standpoint, are you cool with this? Yowza. Also, we're again focused on how these allegations affect you, Terry. "I can't believe my name's attached to this thing." Not a whole lot of talk from Terry about how it's patently untrue that this thing was said in a forum where this plaintiff was present (Zoom or whatever). Just a lot of woe is me for having your name "associated" with the allegations.

What an absolute and total cluster.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Good point. If true, then what?

Sensitivity training.

[Eleven]

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Hoo boy. The butchery of language continues unabated under John Roth. (A pet theory I've developed: I think he pens these things.)

Sentence the first:

"The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false."

It's false how? It's false that black athletes who push civil rights issues should go back to Africa? That's a thing that is untrue and should not be said? Or are you saying that "I did not say that." Because it's unclear, Terry. Also, Terry, are you preparing to throw someone else under the bus? The phrase "attributed to me" sounds an awful lot like you agree it was said, but you weren't the one to say it.

"I am horrified that anyone would connect me to an allegation of this kind."

Da fuq? There are so many words to pick here. Horrified? Hey, Terry. It's horrifying when mortifying truths come to light too. You did not want that word here. Oof.

"Racism has no place in our society"

[Golf clap.]

"and I am personally disgusted that my name is associated with this complaint."

Is there another way to be disgusted that plays here? From a professional standpoint, are you cool with this? Yowza. Also, we're again focused on how these allegations affect you, Terry. "I can't believe my name's attached to this thing." Not a whole lot of talk from Terry about how it's patently untrue that this thing was said in a forum where this plaintiff was present (Zoom or whatever). Just a lot of woe is me for having your name "associated" with the allegations.

What an absolute and total cluster.

1.  "The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false."

This, indeed, is horribly worded.  I think we both know what he meant, though:  "I didn't say that."  I think sometimes PR writers get too caught up in trying to sound fancy and/or trying to sound like lawyers.

2.  "I am horrified that anyone would connect me to an allegation of this kind." AND "and I am personally disgusted that my name is associated with this complaint."

There's nothing wrong with these.  He's allowed to have an emotional reaction to what (he says) is a false accusation.

3.  "Racism has no place in our society"

Did you honestly expect that any response to something like this, from anyone, would NOT include something like this?

 

[PASabreFan]

Also FWIW Sports Illustrated described Trotter as an "esteemed" reporter.

[Zamboni]

Roughly 24 hours later… I still say…

 

I’ll choose to believe it’s a bunch of untrue crap. Until it’s not.

[inkman]

9 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Hoo boy. The butchery of language continues unabated under John Roth. (A pet theory I've developed: I think he pens these things.)

Sentence the first:

"The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false."

It's false how? It's false that black athletes who push civil rights issues should go back to Africa? That's a thing that is untrue and should not be said? Or are you saying that "I did not say that." Because it's unclear, Terry. Also, Terry, are you preparing to throw someone else under the bus? The phrase "attributed to me" sounds an awful lot like you agree it was said, but you weren't the one to say it.

"I am horrified that anyone would connect me to an allegation of this kind."

Da fuq? There are so many words to pick here. Horrified? Hey, Terry. It's horrifying when mortifying truths come to light too. You did not want that word here. Oof.

"Racism has no place in our society"

[Golf clap.]

"and I am personally disgusted that my name is associated with this complaint."

Is there another way to be disgusted that plays here? From a professional standpoint, are you cool with this? Yowza. Also, we're again focused on how these allegations affect you, Terry. "I can't believe my name's attached to this thing." Not a whole lot of talk from Terry about how it's patently untrue that this thing was said in a forum where this plaintiff was present (Zoom or whatever). Just a lot of woe is me for having your name "associated" with the allegations.

What an absolute and total cluster.

You got a lot of time of your hands?  I got some projects around the house I could use some help with. 😀

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Also FWIW Sports Illustrated described Trotter as an "esteemed" reporter.

He's also "a steamed" reporter. 🤪 I kill me.

[That Aud Smell]

23 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

He can't, statements in a Complaint are protected speech.

If the statements are demonstrably false and it can be shown that the plaintiff knew as much when he caused his complaint to be filed, then the lawsuit could be dismissed as frivolous. That could undo the privilege generally afforded to judicial statements.

2 minutes ago, inkman said:

You got a lot of time of your hands?  I got some projects around the house I could use some help with. 😀

Just taking a break. Hard times, actually.

[inkman]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

If the statements are demonstrably false and it can be shown that the plaintiff knew as much when he caused his complaint to be filed, then the lawsuit could be dismissed as frivolous. That could undo the privilege generally afforded to judicial statements.

Just taking a break. Hard times, actually.

Sorry to hear that.  Drop me a message if you feel the need.  I’ve leaned on SS posters in the past, it was very therapeutic actually.  

[PASabreFan]

I lobbed the softball and Smell delivered.

I've worked in and around words. It's fascinating to me that such an important statement would end up so shoddy.

The fact Terry didn't say he didn't say it is interesting.

[Eleven]

7 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Also FWIW Sports Illustrated described Trotter as an "esteemed" reporter.

I'm sure he is.

Keep in mind that no one circles the wagons like the press defending one of their own.

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

The fact Terry didn't say he didn't say it is interesting.

He did.  It was worded clumsily.

[That Aud Smell]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

1.  "The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false."

This, indeed, is horribly worded.  I think we both know what he meant, though:  "I didn't say that."  I think sometimes PR writers get too caught up in trying to sound fancy and/or trying to sound like lawyers.

I'd be stunned if any decent PR professional was involved in preparing that statement. I think it's John Roth or someone who reports directly to him. Agreed 100% on efforts to sound lawyerly will doom any press release.

Also, I don't know what he meant to say. The words he used are unclear. And a little weird.

Edited September 13, 2023 by That Aud Smell

[Eleven]

Just now, That Aud Smell said:

I'd be stunned if any decent PR professional was involved in preparing that statement. I think it's John Roth or someone who reports directly to him. Agreed 100% on efforts to sound lawyerly will doom any press release.

Maybe it was the Pegula kid who designed the BS hat who wrote it.

[PromoTheRobot]

16 minutes ago, Eleven said:

1.  "The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false."

This, indeed, is horribly worded.  I think we both know what he meant, though:  "I didn't say that."  I think sometimes PR writers get too caught up in trying to sound fancy and/or trying to sound like lawyers.

2.  "I am horrified that anyone would connect me to an allegation of this kind." AND "and I am personally disgusted that my name is associated with this complaint."

There's nothing wrong with these.  He's allowed to have an emotional reaction to what (he says) is a false accusation.

3.  "Racism has no place in our society"

Did you honestly expect that any response to something like this, from anyone, would NOT include something like this?

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[That Aud Smell]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

2.  "I am horrified that anyone would connect me to an allegation of this kind." AND "and I am personally disgusted that my name is associated with this complaint."

There's nothing wrong with these.  He's allowed to have an emotional reaction to what (he says) is a false accusation.

There's plenty wrong. They're tone deaf. Focus on the hurt being alleged. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, Mr. Billionaire. You spent your entire statement doing that.

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Maybe it was the Pegula kid who designed the BS hat who wrote it.

I wouldn't doubt this.

13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

3.  "Racism has no place in our society"

Did you honestly expect that any response to something like this, from anyone, would NOT include something like this?

Hence the golf clap.

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

There's plenty wrong. They're tone deaf. Focus on the hurt being alleged. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, Mr. Billionaire. You spent your entire statement doing that.

Never been falsely accused of something heinous that you didn't actually do?

Edited September 13, 2023 by Eleven

[That Aud Smell]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Maybe it was the Pegula kid who designed the BS hat who wrote it.

[Eleven]

Just now, That Aud Smell said:

Is that supposed to be jism?  What's going on here?

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Never been falsely accused of something heinous that you didn't actually do?

I'm so far removed from this realm - I don't think my life experiences have much bearing on the matter. The tone-deaf aspect is what makes me think that he's not using a PR professional who charges $1000 an hour. Those cats are worth every penny when you have billions at stake.

Just now, Eleven said:

Is that supposed to be jism?  What's going on here?

Matt Pegula's j1zz hats, fo sho.

[Eleven]

Just now, That Aud Smell said:

I'm so far removed from this realm - I don't think my life experiences have much bearing on the matter. The tone-deaf aspect is what makes me think that he's not using a PR professional who charges $1000 an hour. Those cats are worth every penny when you have billions at stake.

Matt Pegula's j1zz hats, fo sho.

Agreed on the PR pro angle.

And just gross.

[LTS]

21 hours ago, qwksndmonster said:

Respected, connected black journalist files racial discrimination claim against the NFL (never done anything bad or racist) and two moderators of this board instantly jump to knee-jerk claim that it's false. hmmmmm.

joking?

Was it though?  I think people can choose to believe it might be true or might not be true.. but did they it was not true or just unlikely?  It didn't read that way to me. I think questioning the validity of the claim it was said should be allowed just as claiming it was said is allowed. The only thing that matters is the truth. 

But, you've associated their questioning with political ideology. I'm not entirely certain how that fits unless you are insinuating that people of a certain political party are racist, by definition.  I'm quite certain it's not true because I know members of multiple political parties who are not (not high ranking, but it means it's not an absolute).

So, if you are casting allegations of political leanings and therefore implying associated racism, are you not also engaging in the same behavior your chastising others for?

14 hours ago, nfreeman said:

In case anyone is interested, the complaint is here:  https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Trotter-Complaint.pdf

The TP stuff is on pp. 31-32.

Some facts:

- Trotter was working for NFL Network and his contract wasn't renewed.

- He hired a major employment law firm to bring this case.

- Trotter alleges that he attended a zoom meeting with about 40 media members in September 2020.  At that meeting, an unnamed media member allegedly told the group that TP, in an interview with him, made the "go back to Africa" statement. 

- So Trotter didn't hear TP say this -- he allegedly heard someone else, who isn't identified in the complaint, say it -- but none of the 40 media members who allegedly heard this story reported it.

- There does not appear to be a recording of the zoom meeting or of the alleged interview with TP.

 

This is some good information.

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Clarification is needed. These were employees of the NFL. NFL Media. They were not media members in the traditional sense. Brian Duff for example is not a media member. I think you want to give the impression that someone among 40 "journalists" would have reported it, and the fact they didn't is evidence the quote was not mentioned. But they were not journalists. It's hardly shocking that NFL employees wouldn't touch that quote.

You'd think that among the 40 people said to have heard what Trotter alleges, at least a few would come out and say, "That never happened."

This is a good clarification.  If it's a meeting of 40 NFL employees, and the NFL is in the lawsuit, then anyone who wants to keep their job is not going to speak up publicly at this time. Employees can answer to the investigators, but speaking out on a corporate lawsuit to the public while you are an employee is most assuredly going to end up in you being fired.

4 hours ago, MISabresFan said:

"If the Black players don't like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is."

"If Black players don't like it here, they should go to Africa, and see how bad it is." 

 

Look what one word can do.  Or a comma...ask Mahomes.

And yet both statements are absolutely ignorant.

23 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Goodell suggests league will investigate?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/roger-goodell-addresses-jim-trotters-154713789.html&ved=2ahUKEwis0MLj_6eBAxVzD1kFHWNHCw0QyM8BKAB6BAgJEAI&usg=AOvVaw1UA7ZnBb6rdKVJvIGFxH1V

Hopefully they hire the people who investigate Gruden.  That seemed to unearth all kinds of stuff.

18 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’ll say this, if the reports prove credible, and likely to have occurred, I will find it mighty difficult to support a Pegula venture.  My fandom has been sorely tested over the last decade.  A racist statement by the owner would be a very heavy piece of straw indeed.

If the reports are credible or if they are true?  Credible is a subjective measure.  Just curious more than anything.  If the statements are true I'd 100% remove myself from involvement with all things Pegula until he was removed.  If the statements are proven true I would hope that players would 100% refuse to play until he was gone.. and that's from ALL his sports franchises. If I worked for the organizations and it were proven true I would provide just enough time for him to announce he's leaving and that replacement ownership will be sought after.  If it didn't happen soon enough, I would leave.  No way in hell I would work for a known racist.

Overall, the best bet in this thread is to not opine on the validity or lackthereof regarding the complaint.  Racism is an emotional topic (as it should be) and speculation on what is true or not will more often than not lead to regrettable interactions.  It's one thing to get fired up over facts, quite another to begin casting aspersions over speculation.

I think we all agree that we don't know the truth, but we want to know.  That's the key here.  I want to know.

[PASabreFan]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Is that supposed to be jism?  What's going on here?

1. That's my Sabres hat if I ever get to lean on @inkman.

2. I once lost a heated Scrabble game, my first and only loss to any of my nieces or nephews, when my 14-year-old nephew placed GIZ.  I wouldn't challenge in front of my mother, who later said matter of factly, "That's not how it's spelled."

Edited September 13, 2023 by PASabreFan

[Marvin]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Never been falsely accused of something heinous that you didn't actually do?

 

I can speak to this from the point of view of both the accuser and the accused.

In 1995, I was accused of sexual harassment which I did not do in grad school.  I had a roomful of witnesses (the student visited me during Chess Club), including a couple of undergraduate females, but that did not matter to the disciplinary board.  The long history of praise on student evaluations from female students for not being sexist did not matter either.

On the other hand, the level of discrimination in academia against religious people is worse than Conservativism, Inc. says it is.  And pure mathematicians openly discriminate against applied people.  In 1989, I had several professors tell me that I did not belong in mathematics grad school for one or both of these reasons.  I complained to the Director of Graduate Studies, but without a recording or something from them in writing, I was SOL.  The fact that I was politically only slightly left of centre at the time was also an issue for many professors.  (I am now centre-right for the US.)

My advice: record everything so that any malfeasance is on the record.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Marvin
Added political discrimination in academia.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Is that actually how it works?  Trotter's group can't go and dig up that person now?  Why even include it then?

Can I end another sentence with a question mark?

I'm sure Trotter's group can do so, since they know who it is.  The fact that they chose not to do so could mean plenty of different things -- e.g. that they were trying to protect someone credible and respected from a poopstorm, or alternatively that upon questioning, that person's lack of credibility would be immediately apparent, or a bunch of other possibilities.

 

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I'm confused. You keep lumping the corporate communications arm of the NFL (NFL Media) in with the professional media for lack of a better word. It's entirely plausible that 40 people who work for the NFL would never have delved into the quote.

The confusion... are you suggesting the second reporter never relayed the quote during the Zoom meeting? Trotter made the whole thing up? Did he also make up the part about his boss saying the issue was being dealt with in HR New York? Would it ever get to HR without someone confirming the second reporter's statement? Maybe by asking two or three or 19 of those in the meeting if it was said?

Perhaps you missed my response to you in which I commended your clarification on "NFL Media" and pointed out that plenty of sports media people -- like Trotter -- have gone back and forth between independent media sources and "in-house" -- and noted that in the 3 years since the alleged zoom meeting occurred, plenty of the 40 NFL Media people who allegedly attended the zoom meeting may have gone independent.

As for what may have been made up -- it's quite possible that something was repeated, exaggerated, mis-attributed, etc. -- and then spun into a baseless accusation of terrible conduct in a lawsuit.  It wouldn't be the first time.

 

11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'd be stunned if any decent PR professional was involved in preparing that statement. I think it's John Roth or someone who reports directly to him. Agreed 100% on efforts to sound lawyerly will doom any press release.

Also, I don't know what he meant to say. The words he used are unclear. And a little weird.

I agree with your breakdown of "The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false" -- but I would be shocked if the intended meaning was anything other than "I didn't say it."

I don't agree with your criticism of the rest of the statement.  People are allowed to be outraged, shocked, horrified, disgusted etc. at being falsely accused of terrible conduct.  This is why, if he didn't say it, I think TP should sue Trotter for every dime he has -- even if it doesn't survive a motion to dismiss, he should make Trotter bleed legal fees for smearing him like this.

[That Aud Smell]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with your breakdown of "The statement attributed to me in Mr. Trotter's complaint is absolutely false" 

There are hundreds of AP Lang teachers out there who'd redline the sh1t out of that sentence. Hire one of them, Terry!

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

but I would be shocked if the intended meaning was anything other than "I didn't say it."

Why would you be shocked?

I'm far more shocked that the statement wasn't simply: "I never said what Mr. Trotter claims I said. I never said it in an NFL meeting or anywhere else."