vet forward to fill in until Quinn returns

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Pretty in line with what Liger was expressing then: it’s a loss, probably not one we need to worry about replacing, as the few points it might represent aren’t worth prioritizing 

If it’s indeed Adams’ thinking (and it appears it is), he must be very confident we’re a playoff team 

Except for a bubble team they might be.

I had never really broken down this kinda stuff in that way, but it kinda supports my theory that teams become good by incremental improvements across the roster as much or moreso than anything else.

And stars have less of an impact than we think. A top centre playing over 20 minutes a night doesn't even account for close to 10 per cent of his team.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Except for a bubble team they might be.

I had never really broken down this kinda stuff in that way, but it kinda supports my theory that teams become good by incremental improvements across the roster as much or moreso than anything else.

And stars have less of an impact than we think. A top centre playing over 20 minutes a night doesn't even account for close to 10 per cent of his team.

He can’t just think we’re “close”, because if we are “close” it has to basically be 1 point because we just did that and he wouldn’t be envisioning he set up a roster primed to step back. So, he must not think we are only a bubble team or how could he NOT prioritize the replacement/points?  I would disagree with the stance thoroughly in that case.

It leads me to believe he thinks we have a bit of a cushion, which while I’m not sure I agree with, I can much easier reconcile his belief and optimism than some sort of nonchalant attitude towards getting over the hump

Edited August 8, 2023 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

In all honesty, I'm really hoping we give a PTO at least to Tatar or Suter so we have a back up plan if Kulich and Savoie aren't ready yet.

With Tatar

I'd go

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch

Mitts - Cozens - Peterka

Greenway - Krebs - Tatar

Olofsson - Girgs - Okposo

Jost as #13

You give Olofsson the Krebs treatment with two workman players along with PP time.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

He can’t just think we’re “close”, because if we are “close” it has to basically be 1 point because we just did that and he wouldn’t be envisioning he set up a roster primed to step back. So, he must not think we are only a bubble team or how could he NOT prioritize the replacement/points?  I would disagree with the stance thoroughly in that case.

It leads me to believe he thinks we have a bit of a cushion, which while I’m not sure I agree with, I can much easier reconcile his belief and optimism than some sort of nonchalant attitude towards getting over the hump

I mean everyone thought Olofsson was going to be traded because we didn't have room for him.

So the net effect to Adams' plan is that he may have to hold off on flipping VO.

A lot of people were saying he was trash anyway, so they aren't happy slotting him back into the lineup. But I wasn't one of them and i don't think you were either. He's a flawed player, but he is an NHLer and he can score goals.

Adams pretty clearly thinks more of several of his guys than the average fan does because there were clearly things he could have done this summer and chose not to.

And i guess he will live and die on those evaluations.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I mean everyone thought Olofsson was going to be traded because we didn't have room for him.

So the net effect to Adams' plan is that he may have to hold off on flipping VO.

A lot of people were saying he was trash anyway, so they aren't happy slotting him back into the lineup. But I wasn't one of them and i don't think you were either. He's a flawed player, but he is an NHLer and he can score goals.

Adams pretty clearly thinks more of several of his guys than the average fan does because there were clearly things he could have done this summer and chose not to.

And i guess he will live and die on those evaluations.

Yes I don’t dislike VO I’m just very bullish on Quinn 

That’s what’s informing my commentary 

[Buffalonill]

4 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Looking at the remainig UFA's there seems to be a few that could start the season and give Buffalo a different look than just rolling with Olofsson again.   I would only be giving a one year contract as I don't need anyone with term with all the young guys coming up.

Nick Richie would be nice on the third line with Greenway.

Tomas Tatar could flank Cozens and JJP.

Would you take a waiver on Puljujuarvi to play alongside Cozens?

You could try Suter at 3rd line center and move Mitts to play with Cozens and JJP.

[JohnnyK]

Leave Mitts at center and have Greenway play with Cozens and Peterka, one winger is on his off wing no big deal, and that line would be better defensively to start the year.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Mitts takes Quinns spot. Krebs takes Mitts spot. Rousek is the forward who battles with olofsson for the 3rd line winger toi.

Moving Mitts into Quinn's spot seems to make the most sense. It allows Mitts to play on a higher line and puts him on a better position to produce points. I also like your idea of Krebs moving up to another line where he can be more offensively engaged. What's apparent is that coach Don G will have a lot of options when assembling and juggling lines. 

[Eleven]

I really want to know what the point is of having a million forward prospects if they're never going to play.

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I really want to know what the point is of having a million forward prospects if they're never going to play.

The big name prospects aren't ready yet. The fun part is how good we are before they are. 

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The big name prospects aren't ready yet. The fun part is how good we are before they are. 

They're either ready to fill in for a guy who was a prospect himself 12 months ago or they're bad picks, is my point...and I don't think they're bad picks.

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I really want to know what the point is of having a million forward prospects if they're never going to play.

This is funny when it’s about a team that dressed 3 first-year forwards regularly last year, in addition to having 3 others in their top 5 in ice time who had played less than 200 NHL games to start last year.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

They're either ready to fill in for a guy who was a prospect himself 12 months ago or they're bad picks, is my point...and I don't think they're bad picks.

I’m sure they can capably fill in on at least a 20th place roster. I have no idea why we are seeking to replicate that but yes there’s a good chance a rookie can play a similar role to the one Quinn did during the course of a season during which he was rookie 2nd line winger on a 20th place team 

We finished 20th place. Sorry just wanted to be sure that got in there

Edited August 9, 2023 by Thorny

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m sure they can capably fill in on at least a 20th place roster. I have no idea why we are seeking to replicate that but yes there’s a good chance a rookie can play a similar role to the one Quinn did during the course of a season during which he was rookie 2nd line winger on a 20th place team 

We finished 20th place. Sorry just wanted to be sure that got in there

The 12th forward was hardly the reason why the team finished one point out of a playoff spot.  I wanted to be sure I got that in there, too.

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is funny when it’s about a team that dressed 3 first-year forwards regularly last year, in addition to having 3 others in their top 5 in ice time who had played less than 200 NHL games to start last year.

Exactly.  Quinn's replacement is already in the system.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Eleven

[nfreeman]

 

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

The things I had in mind for Jack Quinn are almost certainly unattainable by Rousek or any in-house option, so I would either be changing my formula or bringing in another player in light of Quinn's injury. Doing nothing because we have Greenway or Rousek is probably what we will do, but I believe it's silly 

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Mitts replacing Quinn on the 2nd line is not a downgrade, but that isn’t really what we are talking about here since Mitts was better than Quinn last year anyway.

I mean you’re absolutely right that every person in the lineup can move up a slot without a huge net overall loss if your depth is strong.

But @thorny is also right that your team might be better if you moved Tatar into the lineup instead of Olofsson.

YMMV, of course, but I don't think Tatar or the other available forwards represent a highly likely, significant improvement over the in-house replacement candidates. 

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The 12th forward was hardly the reason why the team finished one point out of a playoff spot.  I wanted to be sure I got that in there, too.

Exactly.  Quinn's replacement is already in the system.

Why is Quinn the 12th forward? 

And again, 20th place. I know you want to keep expectations as small as it’s possible to keep them but it’s actually ok to make our team...more likely to make the playoffs for the first time in 13 years! 

[Thorny]

We aren’t set at forward. We are maybe, maybe, set at forward goals. The forwards on the team were a big part of the reason we gave up so many goals and finished 20th place. I’d look to goal differential for a more accurate reflection. Removing Quinn’s 200 foot capability and subbing in VO’s lack of such and his combination of goals, the one thing we don’t need, is a sure fire way to make a weakness worse. it’s not so much the idea that wanting that adequately replaced by something with a little more certainty than a rookie or Olofsson is debated, it’s like you are scoffing at it

Edited August 9, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, Eleven said:

They're either ready to fill in for a guy who was a prospect himself 12 months ago or they're bad picks, is my point...and I don't think they're bad picks.

This isn't logical at all

[klos1963]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

And? 

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch

Peterka - Cozens - Mitts

Greenway - Krebs - Olofsson or Rousek

Zemgus - Jost - Okposo 

That 3rd line looks pretty weak. 4th line nothing special either.  Yikes, I hope I'm wrong.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, klos1963 said:

That 3rd line looks pretty weak. 4th line nothing special either.  Yikes, I hope I'm wrong.

Disagree with both points. Krebs and Greenway might be great together. Okposo,  Zemgus, and Jost already were a good defensive line. We don't know what 24yr old Rousek will bring. 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, klos1963 said:

That 3rd line looks pretty weak. 4th line nothing special either.  Yikes, I hope I'm wrong.

One of the things that will make this season fun to follow is watching to see how players such as Greenway and Krebs play. I thought that Krebs noticeably elevated his game by becoming more structured and disciplined after being put on the Okposo/Girgs line. Greenway is another player who should be starting off the season healthy and well-conditioned. Understandably, there is a lot of interest on who was added to the roster. However, the biggest factor for success will be internal improvement. That's what I will be keying in on. 

[sweetlou]

I am actually hoping that Granato keeps Mitts between Tuch and Skinner and has Thompson play with Cozens and JJP the way they ended last season.

Let Krebs and Jost center the 3rd and 4th lines.  You have Greenway, Okposo, Girgensons, and Rousek to rotate on the wings.

I still want to move on from Olofsson. Trade him for a 2nd or 3rd and then sign Tatar for one year and pay him what you would have paid Olofsson.  

Tatar did great playing with the young guys on NJ last year.  I want that veteran leadership rather than another rookie trying to prove himself.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

I am actually hoping that Granato keeps Mitts between Tuch and Skinner and has Thompson play with Cozens and JJP the way they ended last season.

Let Krebs and Jost center the 3rd and 4th lines.  You have Greenway, Okposo, Girgensons, and Rousek to rotate on the wings.

I still want to move on from Olofsson. Trade him for a 2nd or 3rd and then sign Tatar for one year and pay him what you would have paid Olofsson.  

Tatar did great playing with the young guys on NJ last year.  I want that veteran leadership rather than another rookie trying to prove himself.

I dont love this idea but could see them doing it. Lines look like... 

Skinner - Mitts - Tuch

Peterka - Thompson - Cozens

This ^^ is a possibility with Quinn out and would keep a right handed shooter at the RW spot. I do feel that in todays NHL that the wingers flip a lot so handedness is not exceedingly important but it does allow for cross ice one timer options if you have at least 1 of each. 

 

The other part of your idea, I don't mind at all. Tatar for a year or two isn't a bad thing and would most likely be an upgrade over Olofsson. I just don't think we will do that sadly. I would add that right now, the Sabres should not be trading Olofsson for a pick IMPO. I would trade him for a different type of winger as we still need forward depth in case of injury. The defensive depth has improved but until Kulich, Savoie, Benson, Rosen? are ready (Spring 2024), we don't have a ton of forward depth if injuries get bad (aka 2-3 of the top 9 go down). 

Greenway - Krebs - Tatar? or Rousek (but in your scenario Olofsson is gone) 

Zemgus - Jost - Okposo

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, Eleven said:

I really want to know what the point is of having a million forward prospects if they're never going to play.

Having an excess of talent in the prospect pool is not something to worry over; not having an adequate enough pool is something to be concerned with. As others have said, most of the high-end prospects in our system are still another year or two away from being ready for the NHL. And internal competition within the system is a good thing for developing players. Also, having an abundance of prospects gives the organization more assets to trade when trying to better balance and improve the NHL roster. 

[Taro T]

17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Mitts takes Quinns spot. Krebs takes Mitts spot. Rousek is the forward who battles with olofsson for the 3rd line winger toi.

Agree that is likely the way how the line shuffling ends up with Quinn out of the lineup.

But am almost as disappointed in Quinn being out for not getting to see what Granato considers this roster's optimal deployment as am disappointed in not getting to see how much Quinn would've improved over the summer right from day 1.