Dahlin or Power, Who Will Have The Better Career?

[Curt]

22 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I think Power may win a Norris before Dahlin.

He may, but I don’t know if it’s possibly unless he bumps Dahlin off of PP1 duty, and I don’t know how that happens.

[bob_sauve28]

13 hours ago, Thorny said:

You really think he can match Dahlin offensively one day? I can’t see it but I’d certainly take it

I totally think so. The kid is smooth and efficient and the points will come 

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

He may, but I don’t know if it’s possibly unless he bumps Dahlin off of PP1 duty, and I don’t know how that happens.

Ya like a D isn’t going to win the Norris if he’s playing on a team with a D man that has more points. Not saying there couldn’t be a reasoned argument to be  made but I’d say there’s seemingly no chance 

if Power wins before Dahlin let’s be real: it’ll be facilitated in large part due to a Dahlin injury. Which in fact will aid Power’s narrative  

[PerreaultForever]

22 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is exactly why Dahlin will always have competition as our “best” d-man, in perception, and it’s the same sort of thinking that had people saying absurdly that Samuelsson, somehow, was our best defensive D last year. Because he provided no offense at all his D must have been otherworldly and Dahlin’s D must lack because he’s great on O. It’s all utterly erroneous. Dahlin was *head and shoulders* our best at ACTUAL d last year (check the statistics if you care) and Power has a HELL of a ways to go to match Dahlin there. Frankly, we may never even get to the spot where we are comparing their offense 

Dahlin was better defensively at 18 on a terrible team after COMING OVER FROM EUROPE than home grown Canadian Power (who I love as a player) was at TWENTY on a much better team. This is insane. These players are worlds apart because Dahlin is everything they said he was. 

Looks like Power will be everything they said, too. But that’s kind of my point. 

Well yes and no. Some people may have said that about Samuelsson but not me and not others. The thing there was the pairing. You saw how badly we did when Samuelsson was out of the line up right? Samuelsson doing what he does allows Dahlin to do what he does and it's the pairing that makes BOTH players better. 

This is why I really wanted Pesce to play with Power but hopefully Clifton will be good enough. 

We've had a long history of bad and temporary pairings where the better D men were trying too hard to compensate for their partner's mistakes and that has made their play worse. 

It might be partially Granato but I feel Power has a different mindset to what Dahlin had at the same age. Dahlin was all in on his offensive strengths, especially under Housley. His development was stunted imo and Kruger, although he recognized Dahlin had to be better defensively, he had absolutely no way to teach these guys anything so Dahlin struggled. He's overcome a lot of that now and is maturing into the complete package but I think Power also has a lot of offensive upside that he has held back on. Maybe told not to take chances, maybe he's just a smart kid, but I think with a solid partner we will see him jump into the play more than we have and an offensive side will show. 

In some ways they kind of have opposite development paths but in time having both of them back there will be huge. Maybe even dominant. 

[Thorny]

29 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well yes and no. Some people may have said that about Samuelsson but not me and not others. The thing there was the pairing. You saw how badly we did when Samuelsson was out of the line up right? Samuelsson doing what he does allows Dahlin to do what he does and it's the pairing that makes BOTH players better. 

This is why I really wanted Pesce to play with Power but hopefully Clifton will be good enough. 

We've had a long history of bad and temporary pairings where the better D men were trying too hard to compensate for their partner's mistakes and that has made their play worse. 

It might be partially Granato but I feel Power has a different mindset to what Dahlin had at the same age. Dahlin was all in on his offensive strengths, especially under Housley. His development was stunted imo and Kruger, although he recognized Dahlin had to be better defensively, he had absolutely no way to teach these guys anything so Dahlin struggled. He's overcome a lot of that now and is maturing into the complete package but I think Power also has a lot of offensive upside that he has held back on. Maybe told not to take chances, maybe he's just a smart kid, but I think with a solid partner we will see him jump into the play more than we have and an offensive side will show. 

In some ways they kind of have opposite development paths but in time having both of them back there will be huge. Maybe even dominant. 

Samuelsson “allowing Dahlin to do his thing” is a frequently repeated misnomer: It’s Dahlin, as an elite talent, that facilitates a player of Samuelsson’s limited ability being able to fill a role adequately on an NHL top pair. I ask you: is Samuelson adequately slotted on pair one if the other defender merely provided average 1st pair offence and average first pair D? Why would we be comfortable with a player who grades out as Samuelsson does (well, well below average first pair offence, ~2nd pair quality D) on pair 1, with said player? We’d want an upgrade.

Samuelsson isn’t allowing Dahlin to do anything, this cannot be stressed enough. There isn’t a single notable aspect Samuelsson is equal to Dahlin in 

Samuelsson is functional on pair one purely because his pair is buoyed by one of the best hockey players in the world 

Dahlin is Barbie. Samuelsson is simply Kenough

Edited August 7, 2023 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

Samuelsson “allowing Dahlin to do his thing” is a frequently repeated misnomer: It’s Dahlin, as an elite talent, that facilitates a player of Samuelsson’s limited ability being able to fill a role adequately on an NHL top pair. I ask you: is Samuelson adequately slotted on pair one if the other defender merely provided average 1st pair offence and average first pair D? Why would we be comfortable with a player who grades out as Samuelsson does (well, well below average first pair offence, ~2nd pair quality D) on pair 1, with said player? We’d want an upgrade.

Samuelsson isn’t allowing Dahlin to do anything, this cannot be stressed enough. There isn’t a single notable aspect Samuelsson is equal to Dahlin in 

Samuelsson is functional on pair one purely because his pair is buoyed by one of the best hockey players in the world 

Dahlin is Barbie. Samuelsson is simply Kenough

"Dahlin is Barbie" is so tempting to go into a question of softness on but that's another topic. 

They don't have to be "equal" to have a complementary relationship in terms of D pairings. Very few pairings are "equal". 

[pi2000]

They will both have great careers, but if we're talking complete defenseman I'd lean Power.

[Doohickie]

On 8/5/2023 at 7:10 PM, mjd1001 said:

Dahlin.  I just think he has overall more talent/higher ceiling.

I'm not voting because really it's too early to say.  We've barely gotten a glimpse of Power's play and Dahlin took several years to get to the level of play we're seeing from him now.

On 8/6/2023 at 5:41 AM, bob_sauve28 said:

Better is in the eye of the beholder. If you want to judge on best hair, fine. 

Define "best hair."

[Doohickie]

On 8/6/2023 at 6:53 PM, bob_sauve28 said:

Rasmus is way ahead in physical play, now. Be interesting to see how Owen progresses there. 

One of the greatest to play the position, Nick Lidstrom, was never particularly physical but was pretty amazing defensively.

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

"Dahlin is Barbie" is so tempting to go into a question of softness on but that's another topic. 

They don't have to be "equal" to have a complementary relationship in terms of D pairings. Very few pairings are "equal". 

Dahlin might be the grittiest defender on this team. 

He's very physical all over the ice and takes very little crap from anyone. 

[bob_sauve28]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Dahlin might be the grittiest defender on this team. 

He's very physical all over the ice and takes very little crap from anyone. 

And totally unflappable! Love him. I remember some hysterical dude screaming at him and Dahlin just sitting there looking at him like he was stupid. 

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

 

Define "best hair."

Texture, quality, lack of thinning; hair that flows in the breeze created by smooth skating and looks good in the post game interview. That there is a risk of the blond vs brunette bias here should not obscure the obvious fact that they both possess superior hair quality which is reflected in the confidence, pride and general air of success both young men express in their very nature. 

 

 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Dahlin might be the grittiest defender on this team. 

He's very physical all over the ice and takes very little crap from anyone. 

Mentioned this last year a few times: He’s an ass. Didn’t really notice that till this past year. Players on other teams don’t like him and his shining blonde flow. He took too many penalty minutes in the name of being an ass. 

I hope he never changes. He kinda really is like a better offensively Victor Hedman

Edited August 8, 2023 by Thorny

[MattPie]

19 hours ago, Thorny said:

Samuelsson “allowing Dahlin to do his thing” is a frequently repeated misnomer: It’s Dahlin, as an elite talent, that facilitates a player of Samuelsson’s limited ability being able to fill a role adequately on an NHL top pair. I ask you: is Samuelson adequately slotted on pair one if the other defender merely provided average 1st pair offence and average first pair D? Why would we be comfortable with a player who grades out as Samuelsson does (well, well below average first pair offence, ~2nd pair quality D) on pair 1, with said player? We’d want an upgrade.

Samuelsson isn’t allowing Dahlin to do anything, this cannot be stressed enough. There isn’t a single notable aspect Samuelsson is equal to Dahlin in 

Samuelsson is functional on pair one purely because his pair is buoyed by one of the best hockey players in the world 

Dahlin is Barbie. Samuelsson is simply Kenough

If only we had a sample of how the team played with Sameulsson out and some other person playing with Dahlin. Honestly, I don't know what Dahlin's numbers looked like during the stretch; either he was worse because Sameulsson is a perfect complement, or that pair was still fine but whatever pair the replacement came from was trash.

But the concept that a player with a certain skillset complements the other in the pairing isn't crazy. If you find something that works, you go with it.

[Thorny]

35 minutes ago, MattPie said:

If only we had a sample of how the team played with Sameulsson out and some other person playing with Dahlin. Honestly, I don't know what Dahlin's numbers looked like during the stretch; either he was worse because Sameulsson is a perfect complement, or that pair was still fine but whatever pair the replacement came from was trash.

But the concept that a player with a certain skillset complements the other in the pairing isn't crazy. If you find something that works, you go with it.

An exceedingly small sample size, you mean, where both correlation and causation are very quite clearly at play as options? Where only correlation can be considered the reasoned explanation because there isn’t a single other available statistical indicator that points to Samuelsson providing anything *close* to the value that one, single, anomalific outlier suggests? 

When there is only one potential indicator in his favour, and it’s easily explained by correlation, it’s correlation. The reason the record suffered so  much during that stretch, aside from small sample size randomness, is a commentary on HOW BAD our depth D replacements were, that, even to a borderline 2nd pair quality player, maybe closer to ideally third pair, there was a chasm of a gap.

- - - 

Of course complimentary skill sets are a thing: but the distinction here was the use of “allow” which I take to mean “facilitates “, which is something different. It’s not a small segment of the online population that thinks Samuelsson specifically was the key to not only unlocking Dahlin’s success, but, like you alluded to, hangs their hats continually on the stat of what our record was with him missing for a stretch, to the extent of literally making a case for Samuelsson being the team’s MVP last year. It’s not uncommon, I’ve seen it a lot here too, and posters were formulating arguments last season that, given the choice for 1 game, we’d sooner remove Dahlin from the lineup than Samuelsson 

Sooner remove one of the best hockey players in the world. In favour of Mattias Samuelsson.

i dunno if we are grading on a curve or some such but it’s certainly lost the plot 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

"Dahlin is Barbie" is so tempting to go into a question of softness on but that's another topic. 

They don't have to be "equal" to have a complementary relationship in terms of D pairings. Very few pairings are "equal". 

Samuelsson is “complimentary” in thats he’s a real life human nhl body who can physically exist beside DahlIn, sure. He had the skill set to be capably assigned very limited duties on pair 1 because Dahlin holds most of it down, facilitating a player of Samuelsson’s ability being able complete the pair: we can ask so little of him. 

But again, what I took issue with was when you said Samuelsson “allows” Dahlin to be Dahlin. He doesn’t. Samuelsson, in particular, isn’t providing or unlocking anything your league average NHL defender doesn’t (I believe metrically he was below, actually). He’s assigned the duties we don’t lump onto Dahlin, so, sure, the assignments “allow” Dahlin to focus on being Dahlin. We can assign those duties to any second pair defender who’s actually a second pair defender 

“Look how much better Dahlin is without an ECHLer in Bryson tanking his stats. Samuelsson is the perfect compliment.” Ya, like, he’s perfect because he’s actually a good NHL player lol. *he did not provide stellar D*. He didn’t even provide GOOD D. What exactly is he complimenting Dahlin with, particularly? Actually asking. Point me to an actual stat that illustrates his value or something he’s first pair quality at - like actually, please create a statistics based argument for what he did at a first pair level, or even for what he provided that any other actual 2nd pair quality player might not provide.  Not a rank, minuscule sized, correlation dominated, short stretch of overall team record 

Samuelsson did not provide anything special last season. Go argue with the stats. Or go figure out how strong and powerful Barbie is, whichever. You’re wildly off the mark on both 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

 

Not just best on team. Samuelsson is the best defender in the known universe. That’s what that tweet would have you believe 

- - -

Advanced stats marks do argue differently, fwiw. And there’s the card 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

On 8/8/2023 at 11:48 AM, Thorny said:

Samuelsson is “complimentary” in thats he’s a real life human nhl body who can physically exist beside DahlIn, sure. He had the skill set to be capably assigned very limited duties on pair 1 because Dahlin holds most of it down, facilitating a player of Samuelsson’s ability being able complete the pair: we can ask so little of him. 

But again, what I took issue with was when you said Samuelsson “allows” Dahlin to be Dahlin. He doesn’t. Samuelsson, in particular, isn’t providing or unlocking anything your league average NHL defender doesn’t (I believe metrically he was below, actually). He’s assigned the duties we don’t lump onto Dahlin, so, sure, the assignments “allow” Dahlin to focus on being Dahlin. We can assign those duties to any second pair defender who’s actually a second pair defender 

“Look how much better Dahlin is without an ECHLer in Bryson tanking his stats. Samuelsson is the perfect compliment.” Ya, like, he’s perfect because he’s actually a good NHL player lol. *he did not provide stellar D*. He didn’t even provide GOOD D. What exactly is he complimenting Dahlin with, particularly? Actually asking. Point me to an actual stat that illustrates his value or something he’s first pair quality at - like actually, please create a statistics based argument for what he did at a first pair level, or even for what he provided that any other actual 2nd pair quality player might not provide.  Not a rank, minuscule sized, correlation dominated, short stretch of overall team record 

Samuelsson did not provide anything special last season. Go argue with the stats. Or go figure out how strong and powerful Barbie is, whichever. You’re wildly off the mark on both 

Wow, you have a very negative view of Samuelsson don't you? So you must hate that Adams signed him long term like he did right? 

I'm truly amazed at how different people can see the same games so differently. I guess for you the losing streak at the same time as the Samuelsson injury was just a coincidence? 

Can't wait until next year when you tell me how bad Clifton is and how much Power lifts him up. 

[Thorny]

20 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Wow, you have a very negative view of Samuelsson don't you? So you must hate that Adams signed him long term like he did right? 

I'm truly amazed at how different people can see the same games so differently. I guess for you the losing streak at the same time as the Samuelsson injury was just a coincidence? 

Can't wait until next year when you tell me how bad Clifton is and how much Power lifts him up. 

No, I mean in the very post you just quoted I stated I think he’s a good player. I say what I think. He’s accurately paid, too. Good contract. He’s certainly a 4 million dollar player, yes. What’s Dahlin going to get, about 10? 

Seems about right, to me. And that’s pretty much my central point because that sort of split flies in the face of the common breakdown you see between the two. You often see more of a closer, even up to 50/50, “they make each other better” stance. Accounts on Twitter you’d usually call reasonably balanced suggesting Samuelsson might be our MVP. Or the best defensive defenceman in the world.

Obviously not pinning you on those stances specifically but the “allows” verbiage certainly hinted at it and that’s what I was addressing. It’s always the one, singular data point in his favour brought up, the difference in record while he was out: which, if you read what I wrote, I didn’t call a coincidence at all. It just happens to have an Occam’s razor, obvious explanation.

Samuelsson isn’t bad, his numbers suggest he was decent (and he’ll get better). But his supposed greatness is relative: I’m not denying there was a great swing in performance, team wise, with him out. But again, relative: Samuelsson’s very decent (but just decent) output *is* a chasm away from the replacement level player we iced in his stead- and the effect it had on the d unit as a whole. 

Samuelsson’s great value lied in the fact he represented a scarce asset last year: that of a competent nhl defender. Value found in the rarity. 

And it’s why Adams more moderate D additions this summer should he enough! Because when Samuelsson or the next guy *inevitably* goes down with an injury, Clifton and Johnson are good enough to fill in, being a chasm away from Bryson, themselves. 
 

Think about it: If the record without Samuelsson was *truly* reflective, replacing him would be a much bigger problem went he inevitably goes down, given his style of game. The additions Adams made IMO supports my analysis of Samuelsson and my analysis of Samuelsson supports my view that Adams did a good job addressing D this offseason 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

On 8/6/2023 at 11:16 AM, ddaryl said:

Rasmus will bring more offense and he is the better skater. 

Power won't be too far behind in accolades

Dahlin is a very good skater IMHO but not a great one.  Power could get to great.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 1:03 PM, TRIP65 said:

Dahlin has been in the League already 5 years. Last two Seasons have squelched the move Dahlin to Winger calls or he is a bust. Played 355 games already and is 23. Has good size, fighter meaning he doesn't back down. When Healthy he is a Norris Candidate every year. Probably in the Top two as Offensive Defensiveman. 

Power in his first full year has played WAY better than Dahin in his 1st full year. Man is HUGE, has some grit but still is 3 years younger than Dahlin. Power already is a +13 point differential, Dahlin for the 1st time hit + differential at 12.

Need another year to truly analysis Power vs Dahlin. That said Power is already ahead in projection from 1st year and beyond. Plus player who found scoring later in year. He was on the 2nd pairing and did this. He is 6-6, will get bigger and better defensively and has length to do what Tage does offensively. Power will not be real flashy like Dahlin and Dahlin will never be as good defensively as Power.

That said Power is the better Defensiveman, he will have 4 more better years than Dahlin if Healthy just based on age, Dahlin had a slow start. Power will be a 50-70 point guy by 23 easily. Dahlin may go to 100+.

Glad we have BOTH and hopefully the next 10+ years

My choice is Power, he came out of the gate flying and will project better in his first 5 years, we don't know this mans ceiling yet either, still too young to evaluate high end.

 

Excellent breakdown.  My choice is Dahlin but you make a good case that Power has a chance to exceed a really high bar.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 1:36 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't see Power having the O potential that Dahlin has already displayed.  Nothing wrong with having a tandem like Pronger (Power) and Niedermayer (Dahlin).

I think Dahlin has more goal-scoring ability but Power might equal or surpass him in assists. 

And having a tandem like that would be awesome but Pronger & Nieds aren't good comps for our guys IMHO.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 2:29 PM, PerreaultForever said:

It's just that they are very different players so their contribution down the line will be different. 

Power imo will eventually be better at being a defenseman, but Dahlin will have higher scoring stats.

Don't see Power being Pronger. I'd say more Pietrangelo. 

I kinda like Dougie Hamilton as a comparable for Power, although I think Power can be better than Hamilton.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 7:53 PM, bob_sauve28 said:

Totally agree that Dahlin is a great defender. But I disagree Owen won't ever be as good offensivly as Rasmus. 

Rasmus is way ahead in physical play, now. Be interesting to see how Owen progresses there. 

Yes -- this is an important factor.  I really want more hitting from Power so that by his 3rd year he's regularly a physical factor.

 

On 8/7/2023 at 12:30 AM, dudacek said:

I don’t either, but I can see a world where Power could one day surpass Dahlin in hockey IQ and Dahlin currently has the best IQ on the Sabres, and among the best on the franchise of all time.

The most impressive thing about Power is the way he handles the geometry of the game. He uses that enormous frame and sub-zero panic threshold to buy an extra half-second of time, or create an extra foot of space that nobody else has and then exploits it to perfection.

Even at 20 he can play a game like he’s a 30-year-old playing against 10-year-olds. People compared Dahlin to Lidstrom because they’re Swedes, but Ras doesn’t really play like Niklas at all; he’s smart, but his calling cards are skill and compete. People see Power’s size and they expect him to overpower you, but he is like Lidstrom in that he knows what you’re going to do before you do and you just can’t touch him.

I love the points about their hockey IQs and about Power manipulating the chessboard.

I agree that Dahlin's game doesn't resemble Lidstrom's.  At his best it's more like Orr's or Potvin's game IMHO.

 

On 8/7/2023 at 6:43 PM, Thorny said:

Samuelsson “allowing Dahlin to do his thing” is a frequently repeated misnomer: It’s Dahlin, as an elite talent, that facilitates a player of Samuelsson’s limited ability being able to fill a role adequately on an NHL top pair. I ask you: is Samuelson adequately slotted on pair one if the other defender merely provided average 1st pair offence and average first pair D? Why would we be comfortable with a player who grades out as Samuelsson does (well, well below average first pair offence, ~2nd pair quality D) on pair 1, with said player? We’d want an upgrade.

Samuelsson isn’t allowing Dahlin to do anything, this cannot be stressed enough. There isn’t a single notable aspect Samuelsson is equal to Dahlin in 

Samuelsson is functional on pair one purely because his pair is buoyed by one of the best hockey players in the world 

Dahlin is Barbie. Samuelsson is simply Kenough

A few things can be true at once:

- Dahlin can be at a level well above Sammy's.

- Nevertheless, Sammy's game can complement Dahlin's game well -- and, yes, free Dahlin up to be more aggressive in pushing the offensive play -- and Sammy can be better suited to and more effective in this role than, say, 75% of NHL defensemen.

- Any fancystat that calls itself essentially "good on offense" or "good on defense" is based on a bunch of different cascading assumptions and is inherently unstable and suspect.

- Almost all d-men on a team as bad defensively as the Sabres were last year are going to have plenty of below-league-average defensive fancystats.

- The correct spelling in this context is "complement," not "compliment."

 

On 8/8/2023 at 2:25 PM, MattPie said:

If only we had a sample of how the team played with Sameulsson out and some other person playing with Dahlin. Honestly, I don't know what Dahlin's numbers looked like during the stretch; either he was worse because Sameulsson is a perfect complement, or that pair was still fine but whatever pair the replacement came from was trash.

But the concept that a player with a certain skillset complements the other in the pairing isn't crazy. If you find something that works, you go with it.

Yes indeed, and it's true for forward lines as well.

[Curt]

On 8/8/2023 at 2:48 PM, Thorny said:

Samuelsson is “complimentary” in thats he’s a real life human nhl body who can physically exist beside DahlIn, sure. He had the skill set to be capably assigned very limited duties on pair 1 because Dahlin holds most of it down, facilitating a player of Samuelsson’s ability being able complete the pair: we can ask so little of him. 

But again, what I took issue with was when you said Samuelsson “allows” Dahlin to be Dahlin. He doesn’t. Samuelsson, in particular, isn’t providing or unlocking anything your league average NHL defender doesn’t (I believe metrically he was below, actually). He’s assigned the duties we don’t lump onto Dahlin, so, sure, the assignments “allow” Dahlin to focus on being Dahlin. We can assign those duties to any second pair defender who’s actually a second pair defender 

“Look how much better Dahlin is without an ECHLer in Bryson tanking his stats. Samuelsson is the perfect compliment.” Ya, like, he’s perfect because he’s actually a good NHL player lol. *he did not provide stellar D*. He didn’t even provide GOOD D. What exactly is he complimenting Dahlin with, particularly? Actually asking. Point me to an actual stat that illustrates his value or something he’s first pair quality at - like actually, please create a statistics based argument for what he did at a first pair level, or even for what he provided that any other actual 2nd pair quality player might not provide.  Not a rank, minuscule sized, correlation dominated, short stretch of overall team record 

Samuelsson did not provide anything special last season. Go argue with the stats. Or go figure out how strong and powerful Barbie is, whichever. You’re wildly off the mark on both 

Your comment comes across as pretty negative, but I mostly agree.  Samuelsson was fine last season but I was a little disappointed.  I think he performed at the level of an average 2nd pair defenseman, which is fine, but I don’t think he brought anything that allowed Dahlin to do anything he couldn’t do with just about any other 2nd pair guy who plays decent defense.

[Curt]

Dahlin vs Power

Power might have more upside in terms of raw physical tools.  He is bigger, at least as good a skater, maybe better, and has comparable puck skills.  His size plus skating ability give him a pretty high ceiling defensively.

Dahlin is more physical (and nastier) at this point, though I’d expect Power to catch up over the next few years.  One big difference I see between the two that leans in favor of Dahlin is that while Power can calmly evaluate a situation and make a high quality play pretty consistently, Dahlin will sometimes create a dynamic play that no one knew was even possible.

I can’t really pick one over the other.  They will be different and a lot depends on how Power develops.

I also want to cation people against putting too much stock into comparing rookie Power to rookie Dahlin.  Very different situations.  Different team environments and rookie Power was a year and a half older than rookie Dahlin was.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Dahlin vs Power

Power might have more upside in terms of raw physical tools.  He is bigger, at least as good a skater, maybe better, and has comparable puck skills.  His size plus skating ability give him a pretty high ceiling defensively.

Dahlin is more physical (and nastier) at this point, though I’d expect Power to catch up over the next few years.  One big difference I see between the two that leans in favor of Dahlin is that while Power can calmly evaluate a situation and make a high quality play pretty consistently, Dahlin will sometimes create a dynamic play that no one knew was even possible.

I can’t really pick one over the other.  They will be different and a lot depends on how Power develops.

I also want to cation people against putting too much stock into comparing rookie Power to rookie Dahlin.  Very different situations.  Different team environments and rookie Power was a year and a half older than rookie Dahlin was.

Rookie Dahlin was better than Rookie Power.

Also Dahlin is a better skater and possesses puck skills Power has only shown flashes of. I can't agree with what you say here. 

It's fun that we have 2 #1 defenders though

[Porous Five Hole]

Peters and Rivet had a pod interviewing Scottie Bowman yesterday. He pointed out that Buffalo is set up very well because of both Dahlin & Power. He said that offensive ability is more easily found at the top of a draft and teams lean toward offense (pointing out that Heiskanen & Makar were taken third and fourth respectively behind the likes of Nolan Patrick…oof).

Teams would kill for Heiskanen & Makar today. He insinuated that defense is harder to find, so it was good fortune that Dahlin & Power were the consensus choices. 
I am not saying it’s easy to find 40 goal guys, but it’s easier to find 40 goal guys than it is to find guys like Heiskanen/Makar/Power/Dahlin.  
 

No comment to who will be better between our two, but I agree with Bowman that D is more of a unicorn and we are lucky to have both. 

[sabresparaavida]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:03 PM, TRIP65 said:

Dahlin has been in the League already 5 years. Last two Seasons have squelched the move Dahlin to Winger calls or he is a bust. Played 355 games already and is 23. Has good size, fighter meaning he doesn't back down. When Healthy he is a Norris Candidate every year. Probably in the Top two as Offensive Defensiveman. 

Power in his first full year has played WAY better than Dahin in his 1st full year. Man is HUGE, has some grit but still is 3 years younger than Dahlin. Power already is a +13 point differential, Dahlin for the 1st time hit + differential at 12.

Need another year to truly analysis Power vs Dahlin. That said Power is already ahead in projection from 1st year and beyond. Plus player who found scoring later in year. He was on the 2nd pairing and did this. He is 6-6, will get bigger and better defensively and has length to do what Tage does offensively. Power will not be real flashy like Dahlin and Dahlin will never be as good defensively as Power.

That said Power is the better Defensiveman, he will have 4 more better years than Dahlin if Healthy just based on age, Dahlin had a slow start. Power will be a 50-70 point guy by 23 easily. Dahlin may go to 100+.

Glad we have BOTH and hopefully the next 10+ years

My choice is Power, he came out of the gate flying and will project better in his first 5 years, we don't know this mans ceiling yet either, still too young to evaluate high end.

 

 

I was reading through this thread and saw people on opposite sides, some saying Dahlin was better in his rookie season (at both ends of the ice), some saying Power was (or at least defensively). This got me pretty curious, so I decided to dive in a bit into their analytics. 
 

What I discovered was that the bolded was wildly inaccurate. Dahlin was better in just about every metric. CF, CA, relative CF, relative CA, Fenwick for and against. And when you check the team relative stats, the difference just grew bigger. Owen Power had a team relative CF % of 0.5%. This means that for every 200 shots taken, when Owen Power was on the ice, 1 more was for the Sabres than when he wasn’t playing. Meanwhile, in Dahlin’s rookie season, he had a whopping 10.6% team relative cf%. 
 

To be fair to Owen Power though, he is a larger player, and taller players tend to take longer to develop. Dahlin also had a higher Ozone start rate at 65.6%, compared to Power’s 56.6%. however, the Ozone starts do not make up the difference in the rest of the advanced stats, which pretty clearly show that Dahlin had a better rookie season. When you add that to Dahlin being a full year younger than Power for their respective seasons, it is pretty clear that Dahlin was ahead of where Power is now, when he was his age. Again though, that could be somewhat due to Power not having grown into his body yet. 
 

If any of you are curious, and wish to check some of the stats for yourself, I attached the links I checked here.

power: https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/powerow01.html

Dahlin: https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html