2023 Free Agent Frenzy (Non-Sabres)

[HumanSlinky39]

21 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Sooooo at this point, right now…. Who in the last 3 off seasons … has been the better GM? 
Yzerman or Adams?

 

🤔

 

They have two totally different philosophies.

Yzerman is much more willing to go out and bring in random bodies to fill out the lineup and pepper them with internal guys they've drafted/developed.

Adams seems much more intent on building his roster from within, building chemistry and developing a "culture."

It'll likely take another couple of years to see which approach is best. Me personally, I much prefer Adams' approach. I will say this: if the Wings are scrapping to snag a playoff spot in March/April given all the money they've spent the past two summers, there should be real questions about the "Yzerplan." Last summer we heard how much he improved the roster with all those "smart" signings, and after a solid start, they ended up stinking again. Nothing he's done today has wowed me, either. Seems like just throwing money at a problem without regard for fit/team chemistry.

Edited July 2, 2023 by HumanSlinky39

[Brawndo]

 

[Buffalonill]

Just now, Zamboni said:

As of right NOW. Not “future” success or failure.

On paper buffalo but it doesn't mean anything if you don't make the playoffs and win it all 

 

[Eleven]

Garnet?

[Eleven]

9 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Killorn is hitting the market. 1 year 7 mil. Do it kevyn

 

9 hours ago, Eleven said:

Not at the expense of a defenseman and a goalie.

 

9 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

There is zero reason that would have to be the case

Apparently there are 4 x 6.25 million reasons.

[stuuuuuuuuu]

9 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Radko Gudas to Ducks (damn) 3 years 4M

Would have loved him in buf but this is too long

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Would have loved him in buf but this is WAYYYYY too long

[Curt]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh it's a big overpay but it's just money. If we have cap money not spent it only helps Terry. Detroit owner obviously don't care. ANY added asset is still an asset. 

I'm not convinced Detroit will be any better, but adding assets and then flipping them for picks later? I have no issues with that if I'm a Detroit fan. 

Yeah, I agree actually.

Red wings are not blowing the doors off with any of these signings the past two seasons and, yes, a lot of them are overpayments.  But from the position they are in, I think it makes some sense.

It’s not going to hamstring them.  They still aren’t close to the cap and they don’t have a bunch of young guys who are going to need sizable extensions soon.  They basically just have Seider and Raymond.

These signings are about keeping their team baseline competitive.  They are just trying to fill the roster with NHL players.  They don’t want to do a Tim Murray Tank.  I can’t really blame them for that.  They need to build up a big pool of prospects.  They are trying to do that by flipping soon to be UFAs for picks/prospects, making extra picks every year.  They are going to need to do this for at least 2-3 more years most likely before they hopefully have a large enough group of good young guys coming up into the NHL.

If it was Buffalo, or some team in a cap crunch, making these signings, then it would be pretty bad.  Detroit is in a different situation though, and for them I think it makes sense.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

You'd be screaming if Adams had done it and the entire board knows it.

Incorrect but good of you to know what the entire board thinks. 

As a fan, I want us to be a cap ceiling spending team not a cap floor team. Assets we can use and flip at the deadline, why not? 

Orlov got 7.75 from Carolina for 2 years. I'd have bid more for 2 years (after which the money goes to Power). But maybe Terry needs a new private jet or yacht instead of a winning team who knows?

I still have SLIM hope we trade for Pesce and Helleybuck but it's  a remote possibility until it isn't. Otherwise, we haven't done enough. We add Bertuzzi tomorrow or make some other big move I will change my tune. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

They have two totally different philosophies.

Yzerman is much more willing to go out and bring in random bodies to fill out the lineup and pepper them with internal guys they've drafted/developed.

Adams seems much more intent on building his roster from within, building chemistry and developing a "culture."

It'll likely take another couple of years to see which approach is best. Me personally, I much prefer Adams' approach. I will say this: if the Wings are scrapping to snag a playoff spot in March/April given all the money they've spent the past two summers, there should be real questions about the "Yzerplan." Last summer we heard how much he improved the roster with all those "smart" signings, and after a solid start, they ended up stinking again. Nothing he's done today has wowed me, either. Seems like just throwing money at a problem without regard for fit/team chemistry.

The Sabres and Red Wings are just in two totally different situations right now.  Buffalo has a large group of good young players who are going to need to get paid very soon.  That ties up their cap in the near future.  Detroit on the other hand simply does not have this on their horizon.  They have cap space to use in the next few years.

[French Collection]

15 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Incorrect but good of you to know what the entire board thinks. 

As a fan, I want us to be a cap ceiling spending team not a cap floor team. Assets we can use and flip at the deadline, why not? 

Orlov got 7.75 from Carolina for 2 years. I'd have bid more for 2 years (after which the money goes to Power). But maybe Terry needs a new private jet or yacht instead of a winning team who knows?

I still have SLIM hope we trade for Pesce and Helleybuck but it's  a remote possibility until it isn't. Otherwise, we haven't done enough. We add Bertuzzi tomorrow or make some other big move I will change my tune. 

Haven’t heard any Bertuzzi rumours, he’s a big piece for someone.

Lots of teams in cap hell, these guys are not going to get the dollars they were hoping for.

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

The Sabres and Red Wings are just in two totally different situations right now.  Buffalo has a large group of good young players who are going to need to get paid very soon.  That ties up their cap in the near future.  Detroit on the other hand simply does not have this on their horizon.  They have cap space to use in the next few years.

I don't see how our cap is tied up. Everybody says the cap will go up a lot after this year remember. We have low end star contracts for Thompson and Cozens already in place. Samuelsson is locked up at a good number. We have tons of money.

You're making an assumption that all (or at least many) of our prospects/rookies will all become stars and need top value money and that just isn't going to happen. Even if a Savoie or Kulich or somebody does earn big bucks that'll just be a shift over with Skinner's money. We DO NOT need to be saving all this cap money people say we need to save. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Haven’t heard any Bertuzzi rumours, he’s a big piece for someone.

Lots of teams in cap hell, these guys are not going to get the dollars they were hoping for.

If I'm Adams now I'm offering Bertuzzi a big over pay for a 2 year deal. He likely wants term but maybe with no instant offer his agent shifts strategy and goes for the FA when the cap is larger strategy like Orlov did. 

and I'm STILL offer sheeting Swayman. 

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Orlov got 7.75 from Carolina for 2 years. I'd have bid more for 2 years (after which the money goes to Power). But maybe Terry needs a new private jet or yacht instead of a winning team who knows?

It probably doesn’t really change your overall point, but Dahlin and Power are actually going to have extensions kicking in one year from now.  Quinn and Peterka will be in 2 years.  

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

It probably doesn’t really change your overall point, but Dahlin and Power are actually going to have extensions kicking in one year from now.  Quinn and Peterka will be in 2 years.  

Dahlin gets big money. Power can be handled a few different ways. Not sure we pay him full out right away. We will probably handle him the same way we did Dahlin. Quinn and Peterka have to still earn their level of pay. We will have to see how much Quinn's injury sets him back and how fast Peterka develops (and into what). So no, it doesn't change my point. We have lots of money. 

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't see how our cap is tied up. Everybody says the cap will go up a lot after this year remember. We have low end star contracts for Thompson and Cozens already in place. Samuelsson is locked up at a good number. We have tons of money.

You're making an assumption that all (or at least many) of our prospects/rookies will all become stars and need top value money and that just isn't going to happen. Even if a Savoie or Kulich or somebody does earn big bucks that'll just be a shift over with Skinner's money. We DO NOT need to be saving all this cap money people say we need to save. 

I’m not assuming that all, or even many, of our prospects will become stars.  I don’t project anyone other than Dahlin and Power to receive star level extensions.  I’m also not forgetting that the cap is projected to jump up.

I actually have the Sabres cap situation mapped out on a spreadsheet.

They certainly do have cap space for the next two seasons.  After Quinn and Peterka get extensions it’s going to get very tight though.  Clifton takes up a little of this space, but not a lot.  

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, Curt said:

I’m not assuming that all, or even many, of our prospects will become stars.  I don’t project anyone other than Dahlin and Power to receive star level extensions.  I’m also not forgetting that the cap is projected to jump up.

I actually have the Sabres cap situation mapped out on a spreadsheet.

They certainly do have cap space for the next two seasons.  After Quinn and Peterka get extensions it’s going to get very tight though.  Clifton takes up a little of this space, but not a lot.  

Fair enough. Tight cap is what all the good teams have to deal with though. Look at all the moves this year for that reason. The two things kind of go hand in hand. You have a hard time competing at the top level if you're not spending at the top level (or even cheating with LTIR). 

Skinner's money is gone in 4 years. That's enough for 2 solid mid level guys right there. 

The key to cap management imo is staggered deals so you always have vets heading to free agency as entry level deals end. Then you make your appropriate adjustments based on their play and who you want to keep. It has to be a mix. This is why the huge prospect pool is great but it's a hidden peril too. Too many young guys wanting money at the same time the window becomes a very short one. Something will definitely  have to give if all these prospects are actually good.  

[Curt]

@PerreaultForever I have to update the spreadsheet with this offseason’s moves.  After I do that I’ll share it here.

[HumanSlinky39]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

The Sabres and Red Wings are just in two totally different situations right now.  Buffalo has a large group of good young players who are going to need to get paid very soon.  That ties up their cap in the near future.  Detroit on the other hand simply does not have this on their horizon.  They have cap space to use in the next few years.

Agree, they're in vastly different situations right now. If you were to ask me, point blank, "who has done a better job managing his team's rebuild?", I'd say Adams without hesitating for a second. Steve Yzerman has developed this mythos around him as the "genius executive." He's been in Detroit for 4.5 years now. I look at that roster and their prospect pool and genuinely want to know what he's done that is so brilliant. Seider was a good pick...though, realistically, he very likely could have traded down several spots and still got him. What else? I don't see any indication that they're building a team that has the makings of a serious Stanley Cup contender anywhere in the near future. I'm not saying he's bungling their rebuild, but I'm not seeing anything...again, 4.5 years in...that would lead me to believe he's some elite GM. I guess my biggest issue with the guy is the media's unending lathering of his apple bag. Maybe 3 years from now he's built a juggernaut and I look like an idiot; but right now, I'm not seeing it.

Edited July 2, 2023 by HumanSlinky39

[Eleven]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Incorrect but good of you to know what the entire board thinks. 

As a fan, I want us to be a cap ceiling spending team not a cap floor team. Assets we can use and flip at the deadline, why not? 

Orlov got 7.75 from Carolina for 2 years. I'd have bid more for 2 years (after which the money goes to Power). But maybe Terry needs a new private jet or yacht instead of a winning team who knows?

I still have SLIM hope we trade for Pesce and Helleybuck but it's  a remote possibility until it isn't. Otherwise, we haven't done enough. We add Bertuzzi tomorrow or make some other big move I will change my tune. 

By your logic, it's a great move if the Sabres don't get Pesce or Hellebyuck but instead blow $5M on Gibson or $7M on Toews.  It doesn't matter if money is spent wisely, as long as it's spent, it seems.  Some of Yzerman's moves yesterday were just plain stupid unless he's just trying to get to the cap floor (which isn't the case).

 

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, Eleven said:

By your logic, it's a great move if the Sabres don't get Pesce or Hellebyuck but instead blow $5M on Gibson or $7M on Toews.  It doesn't matter if money is spent wisely, as long as it's spent, it seems.  Some of Yzerman's moves yesterday were just plain stupid unless he's just trying to get to the cap floor (which isn't the case).

 

Speaking of Yzerman, I don't understand his roster. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Buffalonill]

26 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Damn wish buffalo signed him 

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Good place for him 

ROR will party like crazy there. 

[LGR4GM]

58 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

 

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

 

Yeah, and from what I'm seeing, Detroit fans aren't thrilled.