First impressions of Jordan Greenway

[dudacek]

36 minutes ago, French Collection said:

First reference to VO that I see in a while. I haven’t missed him, even though he has 26 goals.

I don’t think Greenway pots 20 but he can provide some defensive responsibility, net front presence, positive board battles and wearing the other team down. If he can get 30-35 points then that almost replaces VO’s production on top of the items I mentioned above.

VO’s goals can be replaced by improvements in Quinn and Peterka. Quinn should be on the PP instead of VO, he has a good shot, vision, passing ability and great maneuverability.

Can a 26 goal scorer + a draft pick return a 4D?

Short answer is yes. Whatever VO’s flaws, finishers always have value.

[PickaPecaPickles]

Good piece on Greenway in The Athletic this morning: https://theathletic.com/4464552/2023/05/04/can-jordan-greenway-be-don-granatos-next-reclamation-success-with-sabres/

Basically says, Great Guy/team mate, a little stifled in Minny and lost his confidence, going to be in the gym all summer, Granato thinks he's got much much more to offer, concluding:

Quote

“I think he recognizes that this is your second team, right?” Bartlett said. “At some point, you don’t have the excuse of, ‘Hey it was just this system or that coach. This isn’t specific to him. Once you get into that second place, if it doesn’t work out and you don’t score at the rate you want or turn into the player that you want, in on you, right? You just look in the mirror, and I think he recognizes that this is a fresh start for him, a new opportunity and you have to take advantage.”

 

[JohnC]

59 minutes ago, PickaPecaPickles said:

Good piece on Greenway in The Athletic this morning: https://theathletic.com/4464552/2023/05/04/can-jordan-greenway-be-don-granatos-next-reclamation-success-with-sabres/

Basically says, Great Guy/team mate, a little stifled in Minny and lost his confidence, going to be in the gym all summer, Granato thinks he's got much much more to offer, concluding:

 

Jack Eichel ended up in a good situation for himself. He could end up on team representing the West in a Cup Final. The other part of the deal is the return we got for him. Alex Tuch is a thriving player on one of the better first lines in the league. Krebs is a young player who simplified his game and demonstrated that he has more upside and definitely has a role on this team. The acquisition of Greenway was made with a second-round acquired in the Eichel traded. In addition, a first-round pick gained from that deal resulted in getting a high-end prospect. There is no question that the return on this trade propelled the improvement of this team. Both teams in this trade got what they wanted. It was a win/win deal for each of the trading participants. 

Assuming Greenway reclaims his game, the intriguing issue becomes on what line and players does he work with? I can see him on a line with Mitts and ??? to form a 2B line. 

[French Collection]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

Jack Eichel ended up in a good situation for himself. He could end up on team representing the West in a Cup Final. The other part of the deal is the return we got for him. Alex Tuch is a thriving player on one of the better first lines in the league. Krebs is a young player who simplified his game and demonstrated that he has more upside and definitely has a role on this team. The acquisition of Greenway was made with a second-round acquired in the Eichel traded. In addition, a first-round pick gained from that deal resulted in getting a high-end prospect. There is no question that the return on this trade propelled the improvement of this team. Both teams in this trade got what they wanted. It was a win/win deal for each of the trading participants. 

Assuming Greenway reclaims his game, the intriguing issue becomes on what line and players does he work with? I can see him on a line with Mitts and ??? to form a 2B line. 

DG was the guy that went to bat for him so we’ll have to think he will find his game.

I wonder if he can play net front on PP2, to change the look. I’m not sure if he has the hands for that role, he definitely has the size.

I think his floor is 4th line defensive conscience with some good board work. His ceiling is 15G 25A?

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, PickaPecaPickles said:

Good piece on Greenway in The Athletic this morning: https://theathletic.com/4464552/2023/05/04/can-jordan-greenway-be-don-granatos-next-reclamation-success-with-sabres/

Basically says, Great Guy/team mate, a little stifled in Minny and lost his confidence, going to be in the gym all summer, Granato thinks he's got much much more to offer, concluding:

 

Here is the quote that stood out to me and gives me great hope for Jordan next season. 

Quote

 In 17 games with the Sabres, his shot attempts, scoring chances and high-danger scoring chances per 60 minutes were all career-high rates, according to Natural Stat Trick. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

My questions on Greenway will remain into next season. What exactly is he? He just seems like such an in betweener but that also makes him less than great at anything in particular. 

Granato has to assess him fully (as he might have already done), decide his best role and then he has to rise to that position. Will he become a late bloomer like Tage? A power forward? A 2 way checker? A bottom end physical guy? He can be many different things. We will have to see what he becomes if anything, but he needs to find his role and maximize it. 

[Claude Balls]

I thought I read somewhere that he was "shocked" by the trade. I loved the trade at first, but his on ice demeanor and play made me start to rethink the deal. But, if he was totally caught off guard, I can totally understand why he seemed sluggish. After his injury, he looked like a different player. I expect him to be a great addition come next season. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Claude Balls

[GASabresIUFAN]

46 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

My questions on Greenway will remain into next season. What exactly is he? He just seems like such an in betweener but that also makes him less than great at anything in particular. 

Granato has to assess him fully (as he might have already done), decide his best role and then he has to rise to that position. Will he become a late bloomer like Tage? A power forward? A 2 way checker? A bottom end physical guy? He can be many different things. We will have to see what he becomes if anything, but he needs to find his role and maximize it. 

I think you are going to see a relentless forechecker on Mitts' 3rd line.  I really suspect when camp breaks the 3rd line will be Savoie Mitts and Greenway.  That could end up being a very scary 3rd scoring to play against.   

[Thorny]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you are going to see a relentless forechecker on Mitts' 3rd line.  I really suspect when camp breaks the 3rd line will be Savoie Mitts and Greenway.  That could end up being a very scary 3rd scoring to play against.   

Mitts - Savoie - Greenway

or 

Greenway - Mitts - Savoie 

? who plays C? 

[Buffalonill]

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Mitts - Savoie - Greenway

or 

Greenway - Mitts - Savoie 

? who plays C? 

I can just picture Greenway trying to keep up with savoie 

 

[PerreaultForever]

59 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you are going to see a relentless forechecker on Mitts' 3rd line.  I really suspect when camp breaks the 3rd line will be Savoie Mitts and Greenway.  That could end up being a very scary 3rd scoring to play against.   

It's an interesting idea. I'm going to wait and see before deciding on Savoie's readiness. I really don't want another year of "development". Greenway as a relentless forechecker appeals to me. I am hoping that "aggressive forechceck" is part of the team strategy going forward. 

I know people disagree, and they might be right, but I still think the possibility of Thompson on the wing with Cozens and Mitts centering Skinner and Tuch is a possibility.

So MAYBE (just maybe)    Skinner-Mitts-Tuch, Thompson-Cozens-Greenway, Peterka-Savoie-Quinn,  Krebs and ? (possibly Girgs or Kyle or Jost or?)   Have to wait and see what else happens in free agency etc. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

38 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Mitts - Savoie - Greenway

or 

Greenway - Mitts - Savoie 

? who plays C? 

In DG’s system it doesn’t really matter.  They believe in “position less” hockey.  

[French Collection]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

In DG’s system it doesn’t really matter.  They believe in “position less” hockey.  

And no one can win draws anyway.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

And no one can win draws anyway.

True that. 

[Thorny]

57 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

In DG’s system it doesn’t really matter.  They believe in “position less” hockey.  

Ah ok so no more line configs got it

Edited May 4, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ah ok so no more line configs got it

Actually if you listen to the interview KA talks about improving face offs by studying how many winger have to dig out pucks and also having the wingers take faceoffs.  He also talked about not worrying about which side the D play.  He specifically discussed how often Dahlin and Samuelsson switch sides during a shift.  

The bottom line is that want their guys to be able to play with anyone at any time.  

[Thorny]

33 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually if you listen to the interview KA talks about improving face offs by studying how many winger have to dig out pucks and also having the wingers take faceoffs.  He also talked about not worrying about which side the D play.  He specifically discussed how often Dahlin and Samuelsson switch sides during a shift.  

The bottom line is that want their guys to be able to play with anyone at any time.  

Forward positions have much more to do with D zone coverage . I’ve been talking about this forever re: Cozens being best at C (guess where he always lines up?) They aren’t playing “positionless hockey” in the D zone 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Thorny

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, French Collection said:

DG was the guy that went to bat for him so we’ll have to think he will find his game.

I wonder if he can play net front on PP2, to change the look. I’m not sure if he has the hands for that role, he definitely has the size.

I think his floor is 4th line defensive conscience with some good board work. His ceiling is 15G 25A?

The GM laughed about it when he stated how strenuously DG argued to acquire Greenway. The coach was also a voice on behalf of bringing in Stillman. He was familiar with both players before they entered the pro ranks. I'm counting on Greenway surprising a lot of people next year because he should be very motivated and fully healthy. He was plagued by injuries last year where much of his offseason was dedicated to rehabbing instead of working out and preparing for the season. 

[PickaPecaPickles]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's an interesting idea. I'm going to wait and see before deciding on Savoie's readiness. I really don't want another year of "development". Greenway as a relentless forechecker appeals to me. I am hoping that "aggressive forechceck" is part of the team strategy going forward. 

I know people disagree, and they might be right, but I still think the possibility of Thompson on the wing with Cozens and Mitts centering Skinner and Tuch is a possibility.

So MAYBE (just maybe)    Skinner-Mitts-Tuch, Thompson-Cozens-Greenway, Peterka-Savoie-Quinn,  Krebs and ? (possibly Girgs or Kyle or Jost or?)   Have to wait and see what else happens in free agency etc. 

Read an article a couple weeks ago about Boston and how moving Pastrnak from the first to the second line helped create more balanced scoring and was one of the keys to their success during the regular season.  Given how successful the top line was with Mitts, I won't be surprised if DG tries something similar. Personally, I don't want to see the Cozens line change, but they would be the third line with the second including TT and Greenway--I'm just not sure who should be the other winger? Three lines that could score 80-90 goals each.

[Doohickie]

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

I can see him on a line with Mitts and ???

Cozens centering them would be an intimidating line.  Heavy and talented.  It will be interesting which prospects make the jump and how they affect line makeup though. 

Maybe you leave Cozens between JJ and Quinn and have Mitts between Greenway and a promoted young buck.  I dunno... let's see.  If the rookie is a center I think it could work really well with Mitts because Mitts can take faceoffs and cover defensively if need be while the youngin' finds his NHL legs.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Doohickie

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, PickaPecaPickles said:

Read an article a couple weeks ago about Boston and how moving Pastrnak from the first to the second line helped create more balanced scoring and was one of the keys to their success during the regular season.  Given how successful the top line was with Mitts, I won't be surprised if DG tries something similar. Personally, I don't want to see the Cozens line change, but they would be the third line with the second including TT and Greenway--I'm just not sure who should be the other winger? Three lines that could score 80-90 goals each.

That's true about Boston although it also just kind of fell into place with the 3 Czechs. When the season started everyone assumed it would be Hall with Krejci since they had previous chemistry but Zacha fit with the other two and there it was. (didn't help in the playoffs though). The thing is we missed the playoffs so there's no reason to think ANYTHING has to or should stay exactly the same. Granato should still go into camp with everyone equal and everyone earning their spots. If that means totally new lines so be it. If it's similar lines okay. Just get the right chemistry together, play the system and style you have decided to play and go for it. 

Everyone should have to earn it though, that's the thing.  

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Cozens centering them would be an intimidating line.  Heavy and talented.  It will be interesting which prospects make the jump and how they affect line makeup though. 

Maybe you leave Cozens between JJ and Quinn and have Mitts between Greenway and a promoted young buck.  I dunno... let's see.  If the rookie is a center I think it could work really well with Mitts because Mitts can take faceoffs and cover defensively if need be while the youngin' finds his NHL legs.

As you describe, there are a number of options. And even when the lines are technically set, there is still an ability to juggle the lines within the games in order to change the dynamic when it is called for. T his roster flexibility also allows the coach options to move up and down the lines and pairings when injuries occur. Mitts filling in at center on the top line demonstrated that point. 

Don G has proven adept at assembling lines that fit. We have the right coach to fit the pieces together that best serves this team. Coaching matters!

The GM has often talked about reaching the point of having internal competition for roster spots and roles. As I see it, the talent base has increased to the point where that reality is coming in to play. 

[French Collection]

47 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The GM has often talked about reaching the point of having internal competition for roster spots and roles. As I see it, the talent base has increased to the point where that reality is coming in to play. 

They are getting there. There is some talent on the conveyor belt, Savoie, Kulich, Rousek, Rosen, Östlund, Neuchev, Nadeau, Komarov, Cederqvist, Novikov….

The NHL talent on the team is still elevating while the prospect pool is deepening. 
 

I am often impatient in life but I see this version of the rebuild as having a real chance so I am giving it more time. KA needs to add from the outside, IMO, to plug a few holes and get a skillset or two they don’t have internally. I think a pivot in on ice leadership is needed. They don’t need to pin the C on an incoming guy but get a few guys who have playoff experience and a winning pedigree.

 

[nfreeman]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you are going to see a relentless forechecker on Mitts' 3rd line.  I really suspect when camp breaks the 3rd line will be Savoie Mitts and Greenway.  That could end up being a very scary 3rd scoring to play against.   

That would be a very interesting line, to be sure.  I think the broader point though is that the Sabres look to be loaded with talented offensive forwards as early as next season, so it's likely that Greenway will find himself with 2 pretty talented linemates.  It's also likely that he'll end up on the 3rd or 4th line in terms of quality of opposition.  The net result of those 2 factors could be a spike in Greenway's offensive production.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

That would be a very interesting line, to be sure.  I think the broader point though is that the Sabres look to be loaded with talented offensive forwards as early as next season, so it's likely that Greenway will find himself with 2 pretty talented linemates.  It's also likely that he'll end up on the 3rd or 4th line in terms of quality of opposition.  The net result of those 2 factors could be a spike in Greenway's offensive production.

 

Which is why DG desperately wanted him.  Apparently they have a great relationship and Greenway is a unique type of forward that we didn’t have in our system. DG thinks he can be a physical presence who can score 20+ here while creating space for guys like Mitts and Savoie.  Mitt’s dramatically improved as a forechecker last year. He is also a pretty big guys.  Having two guys with size and skill and then add Mitt’s passing ability and Savoie might score 30 as a rookie. 

This is also going to be the most talented and deep forward group the Sabres have had since the 2005/6 & 2006/7 Sabres.