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Adams/Granato: In for the long haul


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9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think we might have a difference in what we consider serious contender to mean. So first, by 2 years after this year you mean in 3 years, not 2. That takes us a bit closer (potentially) but still not sure serious would apply. 

If by "serious contender" you mean making the playoffs, sure, it's possible. I certainly hope so. But serious contender to me is only a half a dozen teams at best. There's a few long shots that could pull an upset, but really only a few teams have a serious shot and we are unlikely to be in that group any time soon. 

If everything, and I mean everything, goes well, and we finally get a good goalie, we MIGHT be a serious contender in 5 to 6 years. That's when maybe Levi is a blossoming star goalie, Power has become dominant along with Dahlin still in his prime. Cozens, Quinn, etc. several players have to have matured into front line performers and we'd maybe have the required depth and skill for a serious cup run. But a LOT of things have to go right for that possibility. 

2 years from now we might be where L.A. is now, 3 years from now we MIGHT be approaching where Carolina was last season, 5 years from now with luck and good decisions we could be competing with Tampa or their equivalent. 

My time frame is three years if you start with this season. In general terms I'm simply more optimistic than you are with our young core maturing together and stepping up to the level of becoming established good players. The list of young players that I'm counting on is expanding. They include Dahlin, Power, Tage, Cozens, Mitts, Tuch, Joki, Quinn, JJ, Krebs, Samuelsson and hopefully another player or two bubbling up from the system. As I and others have stated the biggest concern is the goalie position. That's where my uncertainty comes from. 

Only time will tell whether my more optimistic projection materializes. What I can say for sure is that the organization is making a lot of sound decisions that is putting this formerly erratic franchise on the right path to sustained success. That's all you can ask for.  

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24 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My time frame is three years if you start with this season. In general terms I'm simply more optimistic than you are with our young core maturing together and stepping up to the level of becoming established good players. The list of young players that I'm counting on is expanding. They include Dahlin, Power, Tage, Cozens, Mitts, Tuch, Joki, Quinn, JJ, Krebs, Samuelsson and hopefully another player or two bubbling up from the system. As I and others have stated the biggest concern is the goalie position. That's where my uncertainty comes from. 

Only time will tell whether my more optimistic projection materializes. What I can say for sure is that the organization is making a lot of sound decisions that is putting this formerly erratic franchise on the right path to sustained success. That's all you can ask for.  

That's all you can ask for? How about a return to a team that wins hockey games more than loses them? A team that competes every night. A team that shows pride in the jersey and plays hard every night for the fans. A winner. Like we used to have. That's what I can ask for. 

Every time we change direction there's a new plan and new optimism. The KA version isn't the first time things have looked good on paper. I'm not pessimistic, I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon again based on possibility or on faith. 

As the saying goes, just win baby, just win. 

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2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's all you can ask for? How about a return to a team that wins hockey games more than loses them? A team that competes every night. A team that shows pride in the jersey and plays hard every night for the fans. A winner. Like we used to have. That's what I can ask for. 

Every time we change direction there's a new plan and new optimism. The KA version isn't the first time things have looked good on paper. I'm not pessimistic, I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon again based on possibility or on faith. 

As the saying goes, just win baby, just win. 

Absolutely, running the hockey operation in a smart manner is all you can ask for. How do you expect to reach the point that you so vociferously clamor for? I'm not jumping on the proverbial bandwagon (your words) based on faith. I'm predicating it on what has been done during the tenure of KA and DG. If you can't handle the challenging process then that's an issue you have to deal with. I don't see any other way. 

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2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's all you can ask for? How about a return to a team that wins hockey games more than loses them? A team that competes every night. A team that shows pride in the jersey and plays hard every night for the fans. A winner. Like we used to have. That's what I can ask for. 

Every time we change direction there's a new plan and new optimism. The KA version isn't the first time things have looked good on paper. I'm not pessimistic, I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon again based on possibility or on faith. 

As the saying goes, just win baby, just win. 

Not just yet, but I’ll guess that you’re going to watch the games in the first month with hope and anticipation for Quinn, Comrie, Dahlin, Power, Cozens, TT, etc, just like the rest of us, and if they deliver some rousing wins and are competitive every night, which is going to happen, you’ll be pretty close to all in.  

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3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Not just yet, but I’ll guess that you’re going to watch the games in the first month with hope and anticipation for Quinn, Comrie, Dahlin, Power, Cozens, TT, etc, just like the rest of us, and if they deliver some rousing wins and are competitive every night, which is going to happen, you’ll be pretty close to all in.  

I believe that the Sabres will be competing for a lower rung playoff position up to the end of the season. Will they make the playoffs? I'm not sure. But as you indicate this team should be entertaining to watch. This DG coached team plays a fast paced north/south style of game that leans more toward the offense than defense. (Compare that to the stultifying play that Krueger promoted!) I'm hoping that the play during the last third of the season is a reflection of this team stepping up. 

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19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So you've got guys with different ages all entering their prime at the same time? It can happen, but it's unlikely. 

and by leveraged do you mean traded? 

imo if you don't add key veteran pieces it takes a really long time and if that time frame is too long you end up in cap trouble with too many primes at the same time or else they leave. 

A healthy build requires winning, then people want to be here and/or want to stay. I doubt there will be a magical coming together. More likely some hits and some misses and thus the need to add those veterans. 

I agree the Sabres need to start adding vets but what vet, that’s worth a damn, wants to play for the Sabres. They have to prove themselves to the league before players start to take them off their not trade lists

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The thing is …. Most of the  guys on this team are already “vets”.

 

Is Anderson a vet? Yes.

Is Dahlin? Yes.

Is Comrie? Yes.

Is Tuch? Yes.

Is Okposo? Yes.

Is Skinner? Yes.

In fact very few aren’t vets on this team.

 

But but but …. We want like different vets. Shiny new toy vets. Overpriced older vets. 😂

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3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Not just yet, but I’ll guess that you’re going to watch the games in the first month with hope and anticipation for Quinn, Comrie, Dahlin, Power, Cozens, TT, etc, just like the rest of us, and if they deliver some rousing wins and are competitive every night, which is going to happen, you’ll be pretty close to all in.  

I will, but maybe not so quick to the "all in". Remember when we started 10-0 and everybody was proclaiming we had arrived? I got fooled badly there. Maybe you did too. It's going to take seeing some damn good hockey to get me on the bandwagon again. 

I think if we start strong, I will be cautiously optimistic, and that's about it. 

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1 hour ago, Sidc3000 said:

I agree the Sabres need to start adding vets but what vet, that’s worth a damn, wants to play for the Sabres. They have to prove themselves to the league before players start to take them off their not trade lists

That would be a question wouldn't it? There's been debates here for years arguing about whether or not players would come here or want to come here. Some of this 10 team no trade stuff has I imagine shifted that argument to the "nobody wants to come here" side. Nobody worth anything anyway. So if that's true, and it might be, we definitely have to start winning and the sooner the better. 

I said this in the Kane thread but I really do believe getting Kane to come here to finish his career would go a long way to solving that problem. Sign him, start winning more and have him publicly talking about how he loves it here and welcome to the new era of greatness. I think it would be just that simple. 

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15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That would be a question wouldn't it? There's been debates here for years arguing about whether or not players would come here or want to come here. Some of this 10 team no trade stuff has I imagine shifted that argument to the "nobody wants to come here" side. Nobody worth anything anyway. So if that's true, and it might be, we definitely have to start winning and the sooner the better. 

I said this in the Kane thread but I really do believe getting Kane to come here to finish his career would go a long way to solving that problem. Sign him, start winning more and have him publicly talking about how he loves it here and welcome to the new era of greatness. I think it would be just that simple. 

Not sure what your point is. If we (KA & DG) don't want high priced free agents and/or low priced free agents who are no better than the up and coming players we have under contract, then why is it a problem that those kind of players don't want to come here? It's as if you are saying that we need people who we don't want. 

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5 hours ago, JohnC said:

We are two ships passing in the night. Where you are going is not where I am going. That's okay. 

I don't really think so. We are sailing in the same direction, I'm just moving along slowly, watching everything carefully, and you are racing ahead blindly. Watch out for the rocks. 

I'm simply not a blind faith guy who believes in hope and maybes any more. After all the failure, I'm a cautious show me kind of guy, but it's still in the same direction. 

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53 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

So your opinion of him would not change, regardless of results, eh?

Why would it? You stay at the bottom long enough eventually you have to get it right don't you? I mean we will have 2 first overall picks anchoring our D. Not many teams get that sort of luxury do they? 

If Pegula knew anything he'd know he doesn't know and he'd have let somebody like Rick Dudley run the thing years ago. 

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45 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

Not sure what your point is. If we (KA & DG) don't want high priced free agents and/or low priced free agents who are no better than the up and coming players we have under contract, then why is it a problem that those kind of players don't want to come here? It's as if you are saying that we need people who we don't want. 

Not what I said at all. I have been consistent in saying we need to build with the draft, BUT also plug holes with key veterans so that we can win now while other youngsters have time to develop. We simply didn't do enough in free agency imo. 

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49 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not what I said at all. I have been consistent in saying we need to build with the draft, BUT also plug holes with key veterans so that we can win now while other youngsters have time to develop. We simply didn't do enough in free agency imo. 

We have, what most "experts" believe, is the best young talent in the league. Even promoting JJP & Quinn we have skilled players that may be ready to move up. I could see making the case for another RHD and possibly a GK but who would you want to send down at this point in their development?

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57 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Why would it? You stay at the bottom long enough eventually you have to get it right don't you? I mean we will have 2 first overall picks anchoring our D. Not many teams get that sort of luxury do they? 

If Pegula knew anything he'd know he doesn't know and he'd have let somebody like Rick Dudley run the thing years ago. 

I've got the feeling that no matter what happens TP will be denigrated by some people. A classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. 

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35 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

I've got the feeling that no matter what happens TP will be denigrated by some people. A classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. 

Well so far he hasn’t so there’s no damned if you do. His ownership has been an out and out failure. Unless you count collecting first overall picks as a positive. I like the way its trending but no ones proven anything yet. If he stays out of the way and lets his staff accomplish something maybe we’ll get there. 

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2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't really think so. We are sailing in the same direction, I'm just moving along slowly, watching everything carefully, and you are racing ahead blindly. Watch out for the rocks. 

I'm simply not a blind faith guy who believes in hope and maybes any more. After all the failure, I'm a cautious show me kind of guy, but it's still in the same direction. 

Awesome !!

 

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1 hour ago, bunomatic said:

Well so far he hasn’t so there’s no damned if you do. His ownership has been an out and out failure. Unless you count collecting first overall picks as a positive. I like the way its trending but no ones proven anything yet. If he stays out of the way and lets his staff accomplish something maybe we’ll get there. 

It appears to me that you have the damned if you don't down pat. Also you're ready to take a bat to him while he (his team) is doing. In actuality I think the Pegulas learned a lot from how the Bills have put themselves in a position for long term success. Looks like they are trying to emulate them with the Sabres. 

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On 8/7/2022 at 10:03 AM, dudacek said:

The bold is interesting, because I think it is a key element of Adams’ plan.

Mattias Samuelsson was born March 14, 2000. Owen Power was born Nov. 22, 2002.

Jack Quinn, JJ Peterka, Dylan Cozens, Ryan Johnson, Eric Portillo, Peyton Krebs, Devon Levi, and Rasmus Dahlin are all born in between them.

Stretch the window a back a year and you add Mittelstadt, Jokiharju and UPL. Stretch it forward and you get Rosen, Poltapov, Kisakov, Savoie, Östlund and Kulich, among others.

The Boston contender was built around Bergeron, Lucic, Krecji, Rask, Horton and Marchand, all who were born within a 3-year window and all of whom came of age together in Boston.

The Blackhawks added Kane and Toews to Seabrook, Keith, Crawford, Byfuglien, versteeg, Ladd, Bolland, Brouwer, and Hjalmarsson in similar fashion.

And, of course, there is the all-time extreme example of Messier, Gretzky, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey, Lowe, Fuhr and Moog.

Adams certainly hasn’t assembled that Oilers’ caliber of talent, but the Bruins and Hawks teams aren’t out of reach.

The template he’s following of assembling a bunch of young talent and letting them grow together is a hardly a new one, and it’s one that has proven to work.

There's 1 team you missed on that template front & that's Carolina - both the early '00's & this latest iteration.  Both got a pretty good core together but didn't have goaltending & then got reasonable/good goaltending and more or less came out of nowhere after stockpiling some talent.

Still lean towards Adams doesn't go after established goalies because this team isn't quite ready to make a true push for a championship, so he's willing to pick up another Savoie/Quinn type player next year if Comrie isn't ready to be the man & if he is good enough to shock the world then he's good with that too.  Last year showed that he has assembled a resilient group - they never turned on each other when things were bleak around January & they even bounced back and played good & entertaining hockey down the stretch.  Expect the mental side hasn't changed regardless of whether Comrie's up to the challenge & because of that we'll see a GM get a 4th year in the job for the 1st time since Regier did it at the turn of the century.

Really can't recall a time the team had as many well regarded prospects; had Regier not kept Rolston we'd've possibly seen it back around '15 but he still hadn't rebuilt the scouting department, so don't know if he'd've gotten the full bang for his buck.  (And, the comment about Rolston was that he was so out of his element that he got Regier canned with him; had Darcy hired a competent coach he might've survived the "suffering" but by not even looking for a competent coach he made the organization a laughing stock & paid the price with his career.)

Adams is definitely assembling a group of kids & letting them grow together.  Hopefully Levi's the real deal; if he is, these kids will become special.  But really hoping Comrie's special too, because Levi is still likely 2 years away.

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