Sabres Sale: An offer from the Hockey Gods

[PASabreFan]

Terry's gone tomorrow. New owner. Without TP, there's a 50-50 chance the team goes, too.

Do you spit on your palm and shake The Hockey Gods' collective hand?

[Thorny]

Coin flip odds we lose the team? Too risky.

Though, I’ll give a Two-Faced response here and consider making the deal, and my own luck, if we get to use my coin. 

[eanyills]

Are the odds 50/50? My memory is a little fuzzy but I don’t remember there being many/any serious suitors with long term intent to keep the team in Buffalo. Unless Terry is handpicking someone with a commitment to Buffalo who also has a LOVE of hockey to own a team in a break even at best market, just putting the team up for sale tomorrow seems like worse odds than 50/50…

 

I think the Pegulas are fine. They just need to get out of their own way, which I feel like they’ve finally started to do so with management, coaching, and a roster that’s trending in a direction that I like for the first time in a long time…

[PerreaultForever]

Okay but where would they move it to? There aren't a lot of cities crying out for hockey teams right now aside from Quebec, and the league doesn't really care about Quebec City as it's a small market. 

idk, I live in BC so personally, I'm not sure it matters to me if they moved as long as they retained an identity as "Sabres" . It would be weird, but not terrible. Rather they stayed in Buffalo, but I'd take a winning team somewhere else over a loser for another decade in Buffalo. 

[Pimlach]

New owner and 50-50 chance they leave town if Pegula sells?  No you don’t  do that deal. 
 

But I don’t see any of this happening.  The NHL wants a team in Buffalo and Pegula is not selling. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No.

[PASabreFan]

23 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

No.

I hate when I'm working on snark and realize it's the good Doohickie who replied.

[PromoTheRobot]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Okay but where would they move it to? There aren't a lot of cities crying out for hockey teams right now aside from Quebec, and the league doesn't really care about Quebec City as it's a small market. 

idk, I live in BC so personally, I'm not sure it matters to me if they moved as long as they retained an identity as "Sabres" . It would be weird, but not terrible. Rather they stayed in Buffalo, but I'd take a winning team somewhere else over a loser for another decade in Buffalo. 

I think they're are lots of markets that want the NHL. Houston is the #4 metro in the US and is as large as Toronto. You have Portland, OR that supports their WHL Winterhawks very well. Kansas City has reportedly expressed interest. Hartford is eager to get back in the show. Norfolk, VA is the largest US metro without a major league franchise. Could either Saskatoon or Regina support an NHL team? 

And then there's the GTA/Hamilton/London/Kitchner axis. You know they'd go bonkers for their own team. If NYC and LA have two or three teams, why not Toronto?

EDIT: After thinking about this for a while, I realize the Sabres are basically Southern Ontario's second team.

Edited December 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[woods-racer]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I hate when I'm working on snark and realize it's the good Doohickie who replied.

I never thought of it that way.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Yes, because the league would mandate a local owner or someone willing to keep the team in Buffalo.  

I still have misgivings about KA, but I’m more bullish on the future then I’ve been for years.

Edited December 24, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes, because the league would mandate a local owner or someone willing to keep the team in Buffalo.  

I still have misgivings about KA, but I’m more bullish on the future then I’ve been for years.

That is not a certainty. Losing free cross-border access severely diminishes Buffalo's viability as an NHL market. We're okay for now but if this situation goes on for years, the Sabres future becomes unstable. There simply aren't enough fans here to support the team. Without Canada, Buffalo is basically Toledo.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think they're are lots of markets that want the NHL. Houston is the #4 metro in the US and is as large as Toronto. You have Portland, OR that supports their WHL Winterhawks very well. Kansas City has reportedly expressed interest. Hartford is eager to get back in the show. Norfolk, VA is the largest US metro without a major league franchise. Could either Saskatoon or Regina support an NHL team? 

And then there's the GTA/Hamilton/London/Kitchner axis. You know they'd go bonkers for their own team. If NYC and LA have two or three teams, why not Toronto?

Doesn't Toronto get a veto on anything moving closer to T-dot? I think they do, and they'd exercise it. Hamilton tried and failed because of that even when they were backed by Ron Joyce and his Tim Horton's money at the time. Doubt that's changed. Toronto would demand huge compensation which I would think would make any prospective buyers prefer staying in Buffalo. Detroit probably has a say in London too. 

Saskatoon is definitely too small, Regina would have a rabid fan base, but is also likely too small and definitely isolated. The NHL has very little interest in more Canadian teams. I think only Quebec city has a realistic (if long) shot.

Hartford? KC? They already failed so idk. Houston I can't speak to. I know it's big enough, but it's not hockey country. The league wouldn't mind that location, but I'm not sure Houston wants hockey any more than Arizona does, which it clearly doesn't. 

 

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Doesn't Toronto get a veto on anything moving closer to T-dot? I think they do, and they'd exercise it. Hamilton tried and failed because of that even when they were backed by Ron Joyce and his Tim Horton's money at the time. Doubt that's changed. Toronto would demand huge compensation which I would think would make any prospective buyers prefer staying in Buffalo. Detroit probably has a say in London too. 

Saskatoon is definitely too small, Regina would have a rabid fan base, but is also likely too small and definitely isolated. The NHL has very little interest in more Canadian teams. I think only Quebec city has a realistic (if long) shot.

Hartford? KC? They already failed so idk. Houston I can't speak to. I know it's big enough, but it's not hockey country. The league wouldn't mind that location, but I'm not sure Houston wants hockey any more than Arizona does, which it clearly doesn't. 

 

Davidson Saskatchewan, pop. 1000.

Halfway between Regina and Saskatoon. Just over an hour from both markets.

[Kruppstahl]

Interesting and thought provoking thread.

I voted "YES" and in a heartbeat.

I have thought/talked about this for years, within the context of the Bills.

For at LEAST the last 20 years of Ralph Wilson's life, the Bills organization was destined to be a tire fire until Ralph Wilson died.  I said as much during that entire time, and I was right.

Rather than simply "exist" in a pit of mediocrity and doom, I wanted new ownership.

"But a new owner might move the team!" exclaimed scared fans.

So what!  The idea is to be a competitor in the league, and to work to achieve championships.

If the franchise isn't committed to doing that, let them move!  Who cares?

AND JUST REMEMBER, IF/WHEN PEGULA SELLS THE SABRES, THERE IS NO GIVEN THAT THE TEAM GOES ANYWHERE.

We are not just the little market from the eastern fringes of the Midwest.  Our proximity to Canada makes us special--the league would be wise to keep a team in WNY forever.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Kruppstahl

[Kruppstahl]

20 hours ago, eanyills said:

Are the odds 50/50? My memory is a little fuzzy but I don’t remember there being many/any serious suitors with long term intent to keep the team in Buffalo. Unless Terry is handpicking someone with a commitment to Buffalo who also has a LOVE of hockey to own a team in a break even at best market, just putting the team up for sale tomorrow seems like worse odds than 50/50…

 

I think the Pegulas are fine. They just need to get out of their own way, which I feel like they’ve finally started to do so with management, coaching, and a roster that’s trending in a direction that I like for the first time in a long time…

You think the Pegulas are "fine?"

I'm curious what you think bad owners would look like.

 

 

[Kruppstahl]

20 hours ago, Thorny said:

Coin flip odds we lose the team? Too risky.

Though, I’ll give a Two-Faced response here and consider making the deal, and my own luck, if we get to use my coin. 

The OP set the odds at 50/50 to make it more risky and more of an interesting though experiment.

In reality, I don't think the threat of moving is anywhere CLOSE to 50%.  It might actually be close to 0%, especially if Pegula made sure that it worked out that way, which he has the power to control--to an certain extent.

I wish the OP would make a new poll, and get rid of the 50/50 talk.

I.E., Pegula is gone tomorrow, real world market forces at play, team could stay, team could move, it's on you the voter to think about that....now....do you vote for new ownership or not?

I think the score would flip flop, with a big percentage voting "NEW OWNER PLEASE."

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Kruppstahl

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Doesn't Toronto get a veto on anything moving closer to T-dot? I think they do, and they'd exercise it. Hamilton tried and failed because of that even when they were backed by Ron Joyce and his Tim Horton's money at the time. Doubt that's changed. Toronto would demand huge compensation which I would think would make any prospective buyers prefer staying in Buffalo. Detroit probably has a say in London too. 

Saskatoon is definitely too small, Regina would have a rabid fan base, but is also likely too small and definitely isolated. The NHL has very little interest in more Canadian teams. I think only Quebec city has a realistic (if long) shot.

Hartford? KC? They already failed so idk. Houston I can't speak to. I know it's big enough, but it's not hockey country. The league wouldn't mind that location, but I'm not sure Houston wants hockey any more than Arizona does, which it clearly doesn't. 

 

The Leafs absolutely do have veto power. But everyone has a price.

As for Arizona I think it could have been a good market. A lot of northern transplants live there. But the team was a basket case for years, longer than we have been. How good would Vegas be doing at the gate if they didn't come out of the chute as a cup contender?

Edited December 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[eanyills]

5 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

You think the Pegulas are "fine?"

I'm curious what you think bad owners would look like.

 

 

Was the Wirtz family a good owner when they ran the Blackhawks into the ground for over a decade before finally drafting an all star starting lineup? Has Craig Leipold been a good owner with repeated GM hirings that focused on free agency as a means of building a team stuck in mediocrity? Darryl Katz walking into McDavid after a decade of first overall picks? NYR, Flyers… relatively similar scenarios of longtime mediocrity or outright failure.

The Pegulas have made several poor hirings at the GM and coach level, many of which were a consensus right choice in “hockey circles” at the time. Murray, Blysma, Housley, etc. I’m not going to harshly judge those choices because they weren’t irrationally bad choices at the time. They could have been criticized but nothing about them was absurd. Stating otherwise would be revisionist. Krueger? Sure, that was a bad hire that shouldn’t have happened but they wanted to go outside the box after the “right” choices failed.

They tried to build a contender via free agency. That’s on them. That’s a poor vision and hiring GM candidates to carry out that vision or directing them to do so is absolutely on the Pegulas. They aren’t the first ownership group to do that.

My biggest and only real fault with the Pegulas is the Eichel tenure, which should have been better than the results, and they have some fault in that, but again, the wrong hockey people were in place who failed to put a winning team together.

I’m not going to get into the tabloid-type reports about the financials allocated to the team, and while I wouldn’t like it, I would understand them. We’re a small market team that really has to be a love of labor because the Sabres operating budget is almost definitely in the red without deep playoff runs. With the team restarting on a youth movement, there’s not a need to be burning cash right now.

For the first time since that initial lockout team, I actually like the direction of the team. I like the players, the coach, and the style of play. I haven’t been able to personally say that in awhile. It remains to be seen if this group can be competitive over the long term and be a contender and we’re missing some important pieces but I feel like the team is moving in the right direction.

The Pegulas aren’t perfect and I’m not happy with the last decade of product they’ve presided over but I’m not ready to storm KBC with the pitchforks just yet.

Edited December 25, 2021 by eanyills

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Leafs absolutely do have veto power. But everyone has a price.

As for Arizona I think it could have been a good market. A lot of northern transplants live there. But the team was a basket case for years, longer than we have been. How good would Vegas be doing at the gate if they didn't come out of the chute as a cup contender?

Pretty good I think because they marketed the team well. There's a circus, party, entertainment aspect attached to the whole thing, not unlike Vegas shows in general. They'd be like fat Elvis. Not as good as young Elvis, but still pretty damn popular. 

[woods-racer]

4 hours ago, eanyills said:

Was the Wirtz family a good owner when they ran the Blackhawks into the ground for over a decade before finally drafting an all star starting lineup? Has Craig Leipold been a good owner with repeated GM hirings that focused on free agency as a means of building a team stuck in mediocrity? Darryl Katz walking into McDavid after a decade of first overall picks? NYR, Flyers… relatively similar scenarios of longtime mediocrity or outright failure.

The Pegulas have made several poor hirings at the GM and coach level, many of which were a consensus right choice in “hockey circles” at the time. Murray, Blysma, Housley, etc. I’m not going to harshly judge those choices because they weren’t irrationally bad choices at the time. They could have been criticized but nothing about them was absurd. Stating otherwise would be revisionist. Krueger? Sure, that was a bad hire that shouldn’t have happened but they wanted to go outside the box after the “right” choices failed.

They tried to build a contender via free agency. That’s on them. That’s a poor vision and hiring GM candidates to carry out that vision or directing them to do so is absolutely on the Pegulas. They aren’t the first ownership group to do that.

My biggest and only real fault with the Pegulas is the Eichel tenure, which should have been better than the results, and they have some fault in that, but again, the wrong hockey people were in place who failed to put a winning team together.

I’m not going to get into the tabloid-type reports about the financials allocated to the team, and while I wouldn’t like it, I would understand them. We’re a small market team that really has to be a love of labor because the Sabres operating budget is almost definitely in the red without deep playoff runs. With the team restarting on a youth movement, there’s not a need to be burning cash right now.

For the first time since that initial lockout team, I actually like the direction of the team. I like the players, the coach, and the style of play. I haven’t been able to personally say that in awhile. It remains to be seen if this group can be competitive over the long term and be a contender and we’re missing some important pieces but I feel like the team is moving in the right direction.

The Pegulas aren’t perfect and I’m not happy with the last decade of product they’ve presided over but I’m not ready to storm KBC with the pitchforks just yet.

If only UPL had the same stats after 12 games as eany does after 12 posts.

Well done.

Post more.