Sabres getting offensive (and not in the way we’re used to)

[dudacek]

R2 is fading for me.

He’s determined, and he knows what to do, but his quickness and strength combo is just not looking like it’s NHL level. He can’t get into the leverage positions he needs to be successful. 

It was really evident in contested space situations tonight.

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

R2 is fading for me.

He’s determined, and he knows what to do, but his quickness and strength combo is just not looking like it’s NHL level. He can’t get into the leverage positions he needs to be successful. 

It was really evident in contested space situations tonight.

Good thing he’s not a finished product yet. Hopefully he continues to develop in the right direction.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Good thing he’s not a finished product yet. Hopefully he continues to develop in the right direction.

Hope you’re right, and a bad game is reinforcing too strongly some trends I’ve been seeing, but I’m not so sure.

A lot of rookies need time because the game’s initially too fast for them, but I don’t get the sense that’s the issue with R2. He’s 24 and I don’t see him getting much stronger or faster.And those elements do seem to be issues.

Maybe it’s a role thing and he just needs other guys to create space. But so far he hasn’t looked good on the PP either.

 

[PerreaultForever]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

R2 is fading for me.

He’s determined, and he knows what to do, but his quickness and strength combo is just not looking like it’s NHL level. He can’t get into the leverage positions he needs to be successful. 

It was really evident in contested space situations tonight.

Yup, agreed in full. Back to Rochester when Mitts comes back. 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Hope you’re right, and a bad game is reinforcing too strongly some trends I’ve been seeing, but I’m not so sure.

A lot of rookies need time because the game’s initially too fast for them, but I don’t get the sense that’s the issue with R2. He’s 24 and I don’t see him getting much stronger or faster.And those elements do seem to be issues.

Maybe it’s a role thing and he just needs other guys to create space. But so far he hasn’t looked good on the PP either.

He's on a JAG line.  As long as they can eat minutes without being a liability, I'm happy.  It will be survival of the fittest anyway; he may get bumped out of his roster spot by a Rochester guy, or maybe a returning IR player.  I don't see him making mental errors, I just don't see much talent on that whole line.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Hope you’re right, and a bad game is reinforcing too strongly some trends I’ve been seeing, but I’m not so sure.

A lot of rookies need time because the game’s initially too fast for them, but I don’t get the sense that’s the issue with R2. He’s 24 and I don’t see him getting much stronger or faster.And those elements do seem to be issues.

Maybe it’s a role thing and he just needs other guys to create space. But so far he hasn’t looked good on the PP either.

 

On the PP, they've typically had him on 1 of the boards which isn't where he belongs.  He should be in Reinhart's old spot & where Asplund is now.  That's where he'll excel.  And excelling there might help with his 5v5 play as his confidence should grow.

At 5v5 he has been a JAG.  Not sure if that's because that's all he is or if at this point he needs linemates driving play.  How long did people around here suggest that Olofsson is strictly a PP goal scoring 1 hit wonder & a JAG elsewhere?  But they both came up at fairly comparable stages in their careers.  Won't write him off just yet, but his future is murkier than we'd've hoped.  

Edited November 17, 2021 by Taro T

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Hope you’re right, and a bad game is reinforcing too strongly some trends I’ve been seeing, but I’m not so sure.

A lot of rookies need time because the game’s initially too fast for them, but I don’t get the sense that’s the issue with R2. He’s 24 and I don’t see him getting much stronger or faster.And those elements do seem to be issues.

Maybe it’s a role thing and he just needs other guys to create space. But so far he hasn’t looked good on the PP either.

 

No one has looked good on the PP. Also how is R2 going to excel when he is saddled with two guys who shouldn’t be in the NHL?  Caggiula and Hayden couldn’t convert a pass if it hit them in the skates and bounced in.  What DG is doing to R2 is nearly identical to what RK did to Asplund.  Until we see R2 play with real players, it’s unfair to judge him.  

[Doohickie]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No one has looked good on the PP. Also how is R2 going to excel when he is saddled with two guys who shouldn’t be in the NHL?  Caggiula and Hayden couldn’t convert a pass if it hit them in the skates and bounced in.  What DG is doing to R2 is nearly identical to what RK did to Asplund.  Until we see R2 play with real players, it’s unfair to judge him.  

Eh, I wouldn't rate Caggiula that low, but Hayden more than sucks out any competence Ruotsalainen and Caggiula bring to the line.  He tries, bless his heart, but he's just bad.

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No one has looked good on the PP. Also how is R2 going to excel when he is saddled with two guys who shouldn’t be in the NHL?  Caggiula and Hayden couldn’t convert a pass if it hit them in the skates and bounced in.  What DG is doing to R2 is nearly identical to what RK did to Asplund.  Until we see R2 play with real players, it’s unfair to judge him.  

No, the PP got bad when R2 replaced Olofsson.

Hayden’s not good (works hard, but the only guy in the roster who’s definitely not an NHLer) but not sure why you’re so down on Caggiula, he’s been more effective than R2. Also, Caggiula has played mostly with Cozens.

What are you seeing R2 do well right now?

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

No, the PP got bad when R2 replaced Olofsson.

Hayden’s not good (works hard, but the only guy in the roster who’s definitely not an NHLer) but not sure why you’re so down on Caggiula, he’s been more effective than R2. Also, Caggiula has played mostly with Cozens.

What are you seeing R2 do well right now?

Unless I am mistaken GA still had Ruotsalainen with top 6 C upside heading into the year, I'd imagine it'll take a larger sample size with linemates he deems proper to back down from that projection. 

I'm on record saying I'm not sure he has an NHL future 

[Doohickie]

16 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I also don’t see him supplanting Hinostroza or R2.  That leaves him fighting for the last spot with Bjork and Hayden.

I could see him beating out any or all of those players for a spot.  I can also see him not doing so, well, except for Hayden who can't be off this roster soon enough.  The point is, the JAGs brought in are collectively not that bad this year.

[dudacek]

I mean he’s right it’s a small sample size and weak linemates, but that’s more or less true for most Sabre forwards.

Thompson and Asplund started the season in the same place as R2, but they’ve stepped up their games. They got better.

Cozens has JAGs on his wings and has been up and down, but you can see flashes of what he can be despite that.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I mean he’s right it’s a small sample size and weak linemates, but that’s more or less true for most Sabre forwards.

Thompson and Asplund started the season in the same place as R2, but they’ve stepped up their games. They got better.

Cozens has JAGs on his wings and has been up and down, but you can see flashes of what he can be despite that.

 

Thompson and Asplund are doing exactly what they did under DG last season and are building on it.  Cozens also looks the same, but I think that is more a maturity and confidence issue.  For R2, he is a smaller player with a good O skill set, but that skill set is useless with guys like Bjork, Caggiula and Hayden.  He needs to be with real hockey players.  Guys who can pass him a puck in a scoring area, guys who can convert a pass.  

Without Mitts, VO and Tuch, the Sabres are down to 5 forwards besides R2 with good O toolboxes, Cozens, Asplund, Thompson, KO and Skinner. Girgensons can also score.  That's it.  With 5/6 of those guys on the top 2 lines, R2 is buried on the 4th line because we lack additional centers for him to play on Cozens wing.  I fully understand why R2 is buried, but as I've said before, it's doing him no favors.  

I've said this before as well, I'd send R2 down and bring up Jankowski (we'd need to convert his deal to an NHL deal first) to replace him on the roster.  I'd move Jankowski to Eakin's place and drop Eakin to play with Bjork and Hayden until the injured players return.  

[dudacek]

Maybe when VO, Tuch and Mitts are here, we’ll have enough talent to unlock what you’re seeing.

Edited November 17, 2021 by dudacek

[DarthEbriate]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Maybe when VO, Tuch and Mitts are here, we’ll have enough talent to unlock what you’re seeing.

If the lineup ever gets fully healthy, I don't think R2 dresses. With those three back, a Bjork/Caggiula-type still needs to dress to kill penalties.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

If the lineup ever gets fully healthy, I don't think R2 dresses. With those three back, a Bjork/Caggiula-type still needs to dress to kill penalties.

Caggiula and Hinostroza kill penalties, Bjork not so much.

Tuch won’t return for at least 2 more months.  When Mitts and VO return, R2 will be on someone’s wing to help create more offense.  
 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[pi2000]

19 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Who is he playing ahead of when Mitts and VO return?  Girgensons, KO, Cozens, Thompson, Asplund, Skinner, and Eakin are guaranteed slots head of him.  I also don’t see him supplanting Hinostroza or R2.  That leaves him fighting for the last spot with Bjork and Hayden.  Once Tuch returns, where does he play?  

The line with Cozens, Hinostroza and Caggiula will stay intact.    They're fast, generate puck pressure, turnovers and scoring chances.   

That's the blueprint.   

R2 is the odd man out.   

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

The line with Cozens, Hinostroza and Caggiula will stay intact.    They're fast, generate puck pressure, turnovers and scoring chances.   

That's the blueprint.   

R2 is the odd man out.   

I doubt it.  They were particularly awful against Pitt last night after the first period.

Like R2, Cozens needs better players.

Thompson's line likely remains

Mitts and VO form a line with someone at RW, hopefully R2, but possibly Hinostroza or Caggiula. 

I can see Cozens moved between KO and Z

This will form 3 really solid and capable lines.

After that Eakin will probably center the 2 guys not paired with Mitts.  

Like I said before, if DG isn't going to pair R2 with good players, then R2 and the Sabres will be best off sending him down.

 

[nfreeman]

FWIW, R2 had the 5th-most ice time last night among forwards and 3rd-most at even strength.

I too like R2's game and think he would produce more with better linemates.  I agree that his line has been pretty ineffective, but Hayden is barely an NHL player and is where O-zone possessions go to die.

Separately, I only saw about half the game last night, but Cozens IMHO looks like he is getting better and more confident by the day.  He made a couple of nifty passes in the O-zone that I hadn't seen previously.

[Doohickie]

15 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Cozens IMHO looks like he is getting better and more confident by the day.  He made a couple of nifty passes in the O-zone that I hadn't seen previously.

He's becoming more determined and stickier on the puck.  I remember a play wear someone passed to him in the slot.  It was a bad pass though and he could barely corral it, but he stuck with it and got a decent shot off.  Easy save for the goalie, but any shot from that spot has a chance to go in.  It was a question of doing as much as you can with the opportunity you get.  Previous Dylan wouldn't have gotten that shot off.

[jsb]

R2 is the equivalent of Evan Rodrigues IMO. Not terrible but nothing to really write home about.

[Taro T]

43 minutes ago, jsb said:

R2 is the equivalent of Evan Rodrigues IMO. Not terrible but nothing to really write home about.

And yet E-Rod leads the Pens in scoring. 

Hmmpf.  Nothing to write home about indeed.  😉

 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, jsb said:

R2 is the equivalent of Evan Rodrigues IMO. Not terrible but nothing to really write home about.

Ol' ERod looked pretty key to Pitt's game last night.

[jsb]

5 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Ol' ERod looked pretty key to Pitt's game last night.

ERod is also 28 do you want to wait 4 years to have R2 finally come around?? Plus it’s still early let’s see how he ends up the year and if he returns to JAGville

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, jsb said:

ERod is also 28 do you want to wait 4 years to have R2 finally come around?? Plus it’s still early let’s see how he ends up the year and if he returns to JAGville

Erod is taking advantage of this opportunity.  All I’m asking for is R2 to get a similar opportunity with real players before we write him off.  The guy scored 5 goals last year in 17 games while playing with decent players. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN