LabattBlue Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 45 minutes ago, darksabre said: There's one very good reason why he wouldn't do this: money. Jack is stuck. He wants the surgery, but he also wants to get paid. If he does the ADR, it goes wrong and ends his playing career, and the Sabres void his contract, he's broke and out of a job. That's why he wants the Sabres to approve it. He doesn't want to lose that money if he ends up as damaged goods. What if Jack decides to get the ADR surgery against the Sabres wishes, and beforehand purchase an insurance policy that protects him in the event he can never play NHL hockey again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postseasonblues Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 I would never recommend fusion to repair a herniated disc on a young person. It pretty much haunts me everyday, between the loss of movement turning your head to the increased strain on the other discs which causes other troubles and pain. And it only gets worse with age, less motion and more pain. So for Jack as a person, I have a really hard time going there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: What if Jack decides to get the ADR surgery against the Sabres wishes, and beforehand purchase an insurance policy that protects him in the event he can never play NHL hockey again? Well, that would void his contract so I hope it’s at least a $50m policy. Might be tough finding an underwriter for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted September 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: What if Jack decides to get the ADR surgery against the Sabres wishes, and beforehand purchase an insurance policy that protects him in the event he can never play NHL hockey again? I can't imagine such a thing even exists 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, darksabre said: There's one very good reason why he wouldn't do this: money. Jack is stuck. He wants the surgery, but he also wants to get paid. If he does the ADR, it goes wrong and ends his playing career, and the Sabres void his contract, he's broke and out of a job. That's why he wants the Sabres to approve it. He doesn't want to lose that money if he ends up as damaged goods. I hope he wouldn't be broke considering he's been paid $30-40MM in his career. He's already set for life if he didn't piss it away. But yes, even with $40MM in the bank you still don't want to risk an additional $50MM+++. And this has always been the rub, I think. He wants the Sabres to cover his risk. Edited September 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: What if Jack decides to get the ADR surgery against the Sabres wishes, and beforehand purchase an insurance policy that protects him in the event he can never play NHL hockey again? How much would such a policy cost? Recall, that insurance is priced to reflect the likelihood of having to actually make a payout? Considering an actuary would likely put the likelihood of the surgery being successful somewhere between 50 - 90 percent, that policy would minimum cost $1MM just to cover THIS season's likely payout. Eichel could lose 5 year's worth of earnings if the surgery isn't successful. Do we really expect Eichel to be willing to cover the cost of THAT policy? Why would the Pegulas want to pay it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 If Jack gets a non-team sanctioned surgery they will surely suspend him without pay. He would be losing this season's salary whether the surgery was successful or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, Weave said: If Jack gets a non-team sanctioned surgery they will surely suspend him without pay. He would be losing this season's salary whether the surgery was successful or not. Except if doing so negates the Sabres rights to him. It would be rash to do that if he's fully recovered and tradable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Except if doing so negates the Sabres rights to him. It would be rash to do that if he's fully recovered and tradable. Sabres didn't lose Numminen when they suspended him without pay over his heart condition treatment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Except if doing so negates the Sabres rights to him. It would be rash to do that if he's fully recovered and tradable. This doesn’t seem right. He’d be suspended, not released from contract. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 hours ago, darksabre said: he's broke and out of a job. He's been paid $43 million in his career. Out of a job? Yeah. Broke.... he'd better not be. 2 hours ago, LabattBlue said: What if Jack decides to get the ADR surgery against the Sabres wishes, and beforehand purchase an insurance policy that protects him in the event he can never play NHL hockey again? Would you underwrite that? I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: He's been paid $43 million in his career. Out of a job? Yeah. Broke.... he'd better not be. Would you underwrite that? I wouldn't. Lloyd's would underwrite it, but they might charge $30MM for the policy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, darksabre said: I can't imagine such a thing even exists He has... what? $50 million still to be paid? The insurance policy would probably be something like $5 or 10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 34 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Except if doing so negates the Sabres rights to him. It would be rash to do that if he's fully recovered and tradable. He said suspend, not terminate. They would still own his rights, they just wouldn't pay him for the time he couldn't play for a violating his contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 Just now, Doohickie said: He has... what? $50 million still to be paid? The insurance policy would probably be something like $5 or 10 million. You expect there to be a 90-95%+ chance of success with that "new" surgery? Expect the actuaries wouldn't be that optimistic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Taro T said: Lloyd's would underwrite it, but they might charge $30MM for the policy. It would be substantial, that's for sure. In the end Kevin is right: The Sabres control this situation. 1 minute ago, Taro T said: You expect there to be a 90-95%+ chance of success with that "new" surgery? Expect the actuaries wouldn't be that optimistic. I was thinking bare minimum. You're right though, it'd probably be even higher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 As much as I understand the “its his body, he should be able to do what he wants,” he signed a contract with a team that controls what he can do with his body. It’s not much different than someone who signs up for the military, and they say “hey you’re going to Afghanistan.” That person can’t just say “nah, it’s not safe for my body.” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 Not quite the same... but yeah something like that. It really comes down to the insurance I think Regardless of all the talk to doctors that KA expounded on, what they say is irrelevant. It's the insurance company and the lawyers that are guiding the Sabres hand. I mean if Jack gets the ADR surgery, rehabs and plays, then ends up paralyzed from the neck down when the artificial disc fails.... and the Sabres approved the surgery... you know he'd be suing the Sabres. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 12 hours ago, Doohickie said: Not quite the same... but yeah something like that. It really comes down to the insurance I think Regardless of all the talk to doctors that KA expounded on, what they say is irrelevant. It's the insurance company and the lawyers that are guiding the Sabres hand. I mean if Jack gets the ADR surgery, rehabs and plays, then ends up paralyzed from the neck down when the artificial disc fails.... and the Sabres approved the surgery... you know he'd be suing the Sabres. Couldn’t the liability issues be negotiated? Could the Sabres agree to let Eichel have his preferred ADR procedure in exchange for removal of the NMC and a signed waiver saying Eichel assumes all responsibility for any complications that may arise post-op? On the surface it just doesn’t seem like a complicated matter and you’d think the lawyers would have been all over it by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 33 minutes ago, K-9 said: Couldn’t the liability issues be negotiated? Could the Sabres agree to let Eichel have his preferred ADR procedure in exchange for removal of the NMC and a signed waiver saying Eichel assumes all responsibility for any complications that may arise post-op? On the surface it just doesn’t seem like a complicated matter and you’d think the lawyers would have been all over it by now. Agents don't like to give back money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Agents don't like to give back money. I agree, but the agent isn’t in control here, Jack is. Anyway, I don’t see why the Sabres legal team couldn’t at least present those options. I really wish we had a fly on the wall at that meeting with the Sabres, Eichel, and the NHLPA. It’s beyond curious that nothing came from that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Couldn’t the liability issues be negotiated? Could the Sabres agree to let Eichel have his preferred ADR procedure in exchange for removal of the NMC and a signed waiver saying Eichel assumes all responsibility for any complications that may arise post-op? On the surface it just doesn’t seem like a complicated matter and you’d think the lawyers would have been all over it by now. Even if they signed a waiver, there could still be a lawsuit. I've heard that you can't sign away a right to redress by signing a waiver. It's tougher, sure, but even if Jack signed a waiver promising not to sue, he could still try to sue. And even if I'm wrong (I'm certainly no lawyer), I don't think Jack would assume all that risk by signing such a waiver. 18 minutes ago, K-9 said: Anyway, I don’t see why the Sabres legal team couldn’t at least present those options. Probably because the CBA doesn't allow it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Doohickie said: Probably because the CBA doesn't allow it. Well, I’m not about to wade thru the entire CBA to fiNd out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 25, 2021 Report Share Posted September 25, 2021 Right, and neither am I. The point is that the legal teams and agents know what's in there and all of the helpful suggestions of the fans here on the forum have probably already been considered and bounced against the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 On 9/23/2021 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Amerk said: As much as I understand the “its his body, he should be able to do what he wants,” he signed a contract with a team that controls what he can do with his body. It’s not much different than someone who signs up for the military, and they say “hey you’re going to Afghanistan.” That person can’t just say “nah, it’s not safe for my body.” Even further than that, why isn’t he just getting the surgery done the Sabres want? They seem to have the backing of the medical community. Doesn’t he want to get better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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