Jack Eichel's Gambit

[Thorny]

14 minutes ago, SDS said:

I mean I don’t think he is the type to say screw you Taylor Hall, the return isn’t good enough, you can sit and rot for the rest of the season for all I care.

Likewise, I don’t think he’ll put the screws to an unhappy Jack Eichel to maximize the return.

I think he will be a guy that is looking for fairness to all parties involved. 

I also think he's winning the PR battle in the perception of most (though this is definitely purely anecdotal). 

What did he say yesterday? He'd have "no problem" with Jack coming into camp? I very much believe that not to be the case, but with Jack's agent putting statements out that  "we expect a resolution soon" or whatever, what's clear is Adams will still maintain his "doing what the player wants" reputation you've alluded to. 

It reminds me way more of Favre in Green Bay at this point even though there are obvious differences

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I also think he's winning the PR battle in the perception of most (though this is definitely purely anecdotal). 

What did he say yesterday? He'd have "no problem" with Jack coming into camp? I very much believe that not to be the case, but with Jack's agent putting statements out that  "we expect a resolution soon" or whatever, what's clear is Adams will still maintain his "doing what the player wants" reputation you've alluded to. 

It reminds me way more of Favre in Green Bay at this point even though there are obvious differences

A key phrase and how Adams thinks is win speaking about the Taylor Hall trade he use the words “Taylor earned the right…“

he doesn’t seem to be the type that says “yeah we may have agreed to this, but this is the way I’m going around this to screw you anyway“

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

A key phrase and how Adams thinks is win speaking about the Taylor Hall trade he use the words “Taylor earned the right…“

he doesn’t seem to be the type that says “yeah we may have agreed to this, but this is the way I’m going around this to screw you anyway“

Agree, except for all those employees he recommended for termination. 

As a GM so far, though....agree

[PerreaultForever]

One also has to keep in mind that at this time Buffalo is not an attractive destination for free agent hockey players. As a new GM attempting to instill a new culture KA cannot afford to come off as hard ass or vindictive. They have to try to create an image of a supportive team that values their players. It's a true rock and a hard place situation. Jack, on the other hand will b forgiven instantly as soon as he starts scoring for whoever. Memories are short term for fans and easily changed with wins.

I suspect Jack's agent will be putting more pressure on this week and if it's not done before free agency things will get ugly. 

[SDS]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

One also has to keep in mind that at this time Buffalo is not an attractive destination for free agent hockey players. As a new GM attempting to instill a new culture KA cannot afford to come off as hard ass or vindictive. They have to try to create an image of a supportive team that values their players. It's a true rock and a hard place situation. Jack, on the other hand will b forgiven instantly as soon as he starts scoring for whoever. Memories are short term for fans and easily changed with wins.

I suspect Jack's agent will be putting more pressure on this week and if it's not done before free agency things will get ugly. 

I will keep that in mind. 😂

[thewookie1]

I'd tell Eichel's agent; help me find my demands in the West and I'll trade him. I refuse to trade your client on the cheap. He may want to put Jack first but my job is to put the Sabres first. And that means getting a haul for your client and then we can go on our separate ways.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

I'd tell Eichel's agent; help me find my demands in the West and I'll trade him. I refuse to trade your client on the cheap. He may want to put Jack first but my job is to put the Sabres first. And that means getting a haul for your client and then we can go on our separate ways.

If Jack wanted out that badly he would drop his surgery demand. That would help a lot of teams.

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If Jack wanted out that badly he would drop his surgery demand. That would help a lot of teams.

That's what makes this whole mess so confusing.

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I'd tell Eichel's agent; help me find my demands in the West and I'll trade him. I refuse to trade your client on the cheap. He may want to put Jack first but my job is to put the Sabres first. And that means getting a haul for your client and then we can go on our separate ways.

 

10 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If Jack wanted out that badly he would drop his surgery demand. That would help a lot of teams.

I think asking the owner to take back cap like every other team does when trying to make these types of deals is a more reasonable ask than asking Jack to drop his preferred course for personal health treatment. 

 

14 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I'd tell Eichel's agent; help me find my demands in the West and I'll trade him. I refuse to trade your client on the cheap. He may want to put Jack first but my job is to put the Sabres first. And that means getting a haul for your client and then we can go on our separate ways.

I’d tell Eichel’s agent, “sorry, there’s not much we can do about Terry”

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

I think asking the owner to take back cap like every other team does when trying to make these types of deals is a more reasonable ask than asking Jack to drop his preferred course for personal health treatment. 

 

I’d tell Eichel’s agent, “sorry, there’s not much we can do about Terry”

Well that would depend, what are these teams wanting us to take on? 

 

Its one one thing to eat a 1 or 2 year contract. It’s a whole different story for a 3+ year contract.

[thewookie1]

Terry certainly needs to stop apparently penny pinching  but I can certainly understand being weary of spending a bunch of money on completely pure cap dumps.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well that would depend, what are these teams wanting us to take on? 

 

Its one one thing to eat a 1 or 2 year contract. It’s a whole different story for a 3+ year contract.

My guess is Adams would simply reject the offer himself if it was a longer term - that could be a huge problem if things with the young core go to plan. 

If Terry is stepping in (I have emails detailing everything, don't worry) I'd have to imagine it's being brought to him by KA and therefore of a short-term variety. 

It's not at all surprising to see, if it is indeed happening. I theorized on here months ago that I wouldn't put it past Terry to handcuff the deal in some way out of spite: we already saw it with ROR and his bonus. That's 1/1 when looking at past results for moving 1Cs. Let's just say for a moment there's some true bad blood behind the scenes. I could see, within the context of him not wanting to pay ROR, him being adverse to extra spending where Eichel is concerned. "That curly hair bostonian has been responsible for enough money coming out of my pocketbook!". And that's without the data we've seen of them looking to cut spending overall. 

I'm not at all saying that's happening, it seems plausible to me though. 

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

My guess is Adams would simply reject the offer himself if it was a longer term - that could be a huge problem if things with the young core go to plan. 

If Terry is stepping in (I have emails detailing everything, don't worry) I'd have to imagine it's being brought to him by KA and therefore of a short-term variety. 

It's not at all surprising to see, if it is indeed happening. I theorized on here months ago that I wouldn't put it past Terry to handcuff the deal in some way out of spite: we already saw it with ROR and his bonus. That's 1/1 when looking at past results for moving 1Cs. Let's just say for a moment there's some true bad blood behind the scenes. I could see, within the context of him not wanting to pay ROR, him being adverse to extra spending where Eichel is concerned. "That curly hair bostonian has been responsible for enough money coming out of my pocketbook!". And that's without the data we've seen of them looking to cut spending overall. 

I'm not at all saying that's happening, it seems plausible to me though. 

In that case, if I were Adams I’d pose the proposal in a manner that downplays Eichel and focuses on the return and its potential.

By taking on A we can get B and C plus D. 

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

My guess is Adams would simply reject the offer himself if it was a longer term - that could be a huge problem if things with the young core go to plan. 

If Terry is stepping in (I have emails detailing everything, don't worry) I'd have to imagine it's being brought to him by KA and therefore of a short-term variety. 

It's not at all surprising to see, if it is indeed happening. I theorized on here months ago that I wouldn't put it past Terry to handcuff the deal in some way out of spite: we already saw it with ROR and his bonus. That's 1/1 when looking at past results for moving 1Cs. Let's just say for a moment there's some true bad blood behind the scenes. I could see, within the context of him not wanting to pay ROR, him being adverse to extra spending where Eichel is concerned. "That curly hair bostonian has been responsible for enough money coming out of my pocketbook!". And that's without the data we've seen of them looking to cut spending overall. 

I'm not at all saying that's happening, it seems plausible to me though. 

I think Terry is against pure cap dumps; players need to be productive.  He probably figures if we are going to lose, the he does not want to spend money unnecessarily.

I wonder how much Jack's behaviour has worn on the Pegulas.  They basically have catered to his every whim except for a long-term contract with Reinhart.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

In that case, if I were Adams I’d pose the proposal in a manner that downplays Eichel and focuses on the return and its potential.

By taking on A we can get B and C plus D. 

[thewookie1]

Just now, Thorny said:

 

Mr. Pegula, I find players, you sign checks, team does stuff, fans cheer, you make more money

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

They basically have catered to his every whim except for a long-term contract with Reinhart.

Link?

[Doohickie]

31 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Mr. Pegula, I find players, you sign checks, team does stuff, fans cheer, you make more money

I think that's an accurate rendition of the meeting minutes from KA's last visit to Boca.

[Ogre]

On 5/12/2021 at 3:22 PM, darksabre said:

The picture isn't very clear to me. But what I see from Jack is a pretty aggressive move, reckless, desperate even. I'm not sure it's the genius move he and his team might think it is...

When I first heard the interview I cringed. I saw a young Ogre in Jack there. Full of confidence and a big friggin mouth.

Hopefully Jack learns to keep his yap shut (I did somewhat) and keep moving forward (my career has more longevity than his so the yap-shutting wasn’t as vital).

Absolutely no reason to burn bridges you haven’t even crossed yet, kid. 
Nobody likes a whiner. Life is hard and you ain’t no Lindros. 
 

If we can’t find a suitable trade partner and he stays, I hope they give the C to someone else. I’ve had enough of this nonsense.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, Ogre said:

When I first heard the interview I cringed. I saw a young Ogre in Jack there. Full of confidence and a big friggin mouth.

Hopefully Jack learns to keep his yap shut (I did somewhat) and keep moving forward (my career has more longevity than his so the yap-shutting wasn’t as vital).

Absolutely no reason to burn bridges you haven’t even crossed yet, kid. 
Nobody likes a whiner. Life is hard and you ain’t no Lindros. 
 

If we can’t find a suitable trade partner and he stays, I hope they give the C to someone else. I’ve had enough of this nonsense.

I, for one, wish Jack success with his new family going forward, wherever that may be, far, far away

[Ogre]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I, for one, wish Jack success with his new family going forward, wherever that may be, far, far away

If Shrek ate right and worked out, you wouldn’t be able to tell us apart. 

[gilbert11]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

 

Even if it takes a year of Jack sitting, the rest or fusion option is preferred to what I'll call the "experimental surgery" option.

The longer this gets dragged out, the more likely that is to happen.   Training camps open in September.

[SDS]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I think the most likely scenario would be that either his neck is fine and he plays, or that there is still an issue and he sits.  If there's still an issue it's IR, possibly LTIR.

The decision tree for the Sabres is:  Has the surgery Jack wants ever been done an an NHL player?  No.  Therefore follow the conservative and recognized treatment of rest.  If Eichel really wants surgery, allow him to get fusion surgery which has been done on other NHLers.

The alternative is that they do allow the surgery and it goes badly, the team bears the liability for Jack's lost wages, plus they get nothing for that money and no return from another team.

Even if it takes a year of Jack sitting, the rest or fusion option is preferred to what I'll call the "experimental surgery" option.

I don't even see it as playing hardball.  It's basic corporate risk management and it's driven by the lawyers.

Fusion surgery at age 24 is insane. Adjacent disk disease is a certainty in his future in that case. And it’s not an experimental surgery, although it may be experimental in terms of resuming playing hockey. They’ve been performing the surgery in Europe for decades.

[Ogre]

12 minutes ago, SDS said:

Fusion surgery at age 24 is insane. Adjacent disk disease is a certainty in his future in that case. And it’s not an experimental surgery, although it may be experimental in terms of resuming playing hockey. They’ve been performing the surgery in Europe for decades.

I had L5 fused to S1 at age 30. I’m now 49 and still wear full Ironworker gear and lift weights. 
 The fusion stabilized the spine. My same aged Ironworker buddy was forced to retire after a artificial replacement in his neck. 
From what I understand, the artificial disc affords greater movement with a far less stable spine. 
The issues with adjacent disc disease are mostly limited to individuals with a history of degenerative disease (those artificial discs don’t absorb shock like a natural disc), which I am assuming Jack doesn’t have at that age. 
I couldn’t imagine a surgeon performing a disc replacement on someone who could potentially be boarded in the near future.🤷

[Andrew Amerk]

6 hours ago, WildCard said:

If Jack wanted out that badly he would drop his surgery demand. That would help a lot of teams.

I have a sneaking suspicion that after he is traded, his tune will miraculously change about his surgery demand.