2022 NHL Draft Rankings

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Maybe they do have elite talent that just hasn’t finished developing yet.  Maybe they can draft elite talent in the mid 1st or even in later rounds.

What if they draft top 5 in the 2022 draft, should they then try to loose as much as possible to also draft high in 2023?  What if they miss out on the best prospects in 2023 and draft 5, should they try to loose again in the 2023-24 season.

How many years do you think it’s acceptable to loose on purpose?

 

11 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

The owner probably wants to tank and get the star player there's no way the wanted to win this year .

3 key examples.

1. Signing Goalies that are trash 

2. Trading our players for picks 

3.Taking on Boychuks contract  When they could easily used that money to get a veteran center or help us win 

 

I’m confused.  Was this a response to my post???  Did I say anything about whether the Sabres were or were not trying to win this season?  Why are you trying to convince me that they were not?

I’ll ask my questions again  because I’m genuinely interested in your viewpoint on this.

What if they draft top 5 in the 2022 draft, should they then try to loose as much as possible to also draft high in 2023?

What if they miss out on the best prospects in 2023 and draft 5th or something, should they try to lose again in the 2023-24 season.

How many years do you think it’s acceptable to loose on purpose?

 

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Weird hill to die on. They could literally add the most expensive player in the league and still be several million under the cap. 

Yet they decided to get a guy that is done in the NHL if buffalo was serious about winning they wouldn't have traded both Ristolainen and sam for picks 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Yet they decided to get a guy that is done in the NHL if buffalo was serious about winning they wouldn't have traded both Ristolainen and sam for picks 

No, if they were serious about winning right now this year they wouldn't have done that. You're making the same argument everyone made when I flipped out over getting Lehner instead of drafting Boeser. No patience or willingness to rebuild correctly. 

Also Ristolainen sucks and I love this board over this. Risto is trash for years and it's always "he's young and still developing, gotta give him time". Dahlin makes 1 bad play in a blowout loss where everyone is getting caved in and it's "gotta trade him now before teams realize he's a bust!"

Not saying you said that but it's the general sentiment of the board and it's hilarious. 

11 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Counting on rookies is a bad idea and could hurt them if rushed we tried that many times and didn't work out 

 

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Which ones of Krebs, Quinn, JJ, Tuch, Power, Samuelsson are they rushing?

 

11 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

So you're going to have 5 rookies + a rookie in the top 5 playing next year ? 6 in total i don't see it 

 

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I asked my question first. 

Also you didn't even read what I wrote. The 6 players listed are not all rookies. 

Again, which rookie are they rushing? 

Edited November 21, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Brawndo]

9 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Yet they decided to get a guy that is done in the NHL if buffalo was serious about winning they wouldn't have traded both Ristolainen and sam for picks 

They were both entering the final year of Team Control and both said they are not interested in signing with Buffalo so they were moved.

Also Samuelsson was drafted in 2018, Krebs 2019, Quinn has been dominating the AHL a sign He is ready for the NHL if He continues, Peterka is trending in the same direction and Power is dominating the NCAA, all five should be ready for NHL Duty next year. 
 

With Mittlestadt, Asplund, Olofsson, Thompson, Skinner, Tuch and Cozens on the team as forwards none of them will be thrust into a Top 6 Role if they are not ready. 
 

Samuelsson is ready for a Top 4 Role and Power will be a 5-6 to start. 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

So you're going to have 5 rookies + a rookie in the top 5 playing next year ? 6 in total i don't see it 

Why do you find it improbable that your list of young players won't make the Sabre roster next year? Which one would you exclude? Their roster spot is not automatic (maybe except for Power). Just because they move up the ranks that doesn't mean that they will automatically be thrust in top two line or top pairing roles. It's likely next year there is going to be an infusion of young talent. If the players in question are not ready they won't be called up until they are ready. That's how it works and that has been the declared plan. So it shouldn't be surprising.  

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why do you find it improbable that your list of young players won't make the Sabre roster next year? Which one would you exclude? Their roster spot is not automatic (maybe except for Power). Just because they move up the ranks that doesn't mean that they will automatically be thrust in top two line or top pairing roles. It's likely next year there is going to be an infusion of young talent. If the players in question are not ready they won't be called up until they are ready. That's how it works and that has been the declared plan. So it shouldn't be surprising.  

Honestly we should expect 1 or 2 of them to make the team initially but get sent to Rochester for a few months because they aren't quite ready. Still if we add Power, Samuelsson, Quinn/Krebs/JJ that's an improvement. Also Tuch will be here in February. 

Also depending on where we draft in 2022, there's an outside shot of another name jumping in. 

Basically we have to wait and watch our guys develop. It sucks after years of nothing but it's the proper course to take. 

[Buffalonill]

46 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

They were both entering the final year of Team Control and both said they are not interested in signing with Buffalo so they were moved.

Also Samuelsson was drafted in 2018, Krebs 2019, Quinn has been dominating the AHL a sign He is ready for the NHL if He continues, Peterka is trending in the same direction and Power is dominating the NCAA, all five should be ready for NHL Duty next year. 
 

With Mittlestadt, Asplund, Olofsson, Thompson, Skinner, Tuch and Cozens on the team as forwards none of them will be thrust into a Top 6 Role if they are not ready. 
 

Samuelsson is ready for a Top 4 Role and Power will be a 5-6 to start. 

Power should be in the AHL  Why are we handing him a roster spot when he hasn't even earned it yet ? 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Buffalonill

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Power should be in the AHL  Why are we handing him a roster spot when he hasn't even earned it yet ? 

We have faith he'll earn it.

The jump from ncaa to ahl is smaller than juniors to the ahl. 

[JohnC]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly we should expect 1 or 2 of them to make the team initially but get sent to Rochester for a few months because they aren't quite ready. Still if we add Power, Samuelsson, Quinn/Krebs/JJ that's an improvement. Also Tuch will be here in February. 

Also depending on where we draft in 2022, there's an outside shot of another name jumping in. 

Basically we have to wait and watch our guys develop. It sucks after years of nothing but it's the proper course to take. 

Starting with this year I have felt that this is a three year rebuild. Assuming that the bumped up players don't get a NHL role that's ahead of their developmental stage  it falls within the approach how most successful teams handle their prospects. 

Krebs was the top prospect in Vegas's system and was getting playing time with the big club. Samuelsson got some NHL time last year (and performed well)  and probably ?? was going to make the roster with the Sabres this year before he got hurt. Quinn, JJ, along with Krebs will be getting a lot of playing time this year in the AHL. So it is unfair to say that they were rushed beyond their stage of development as happened with Mitts and Tage. So as you and others have projected it is likely that  a half dozen of young (new) players will be on the roster next year. (I'm including Tuch to the list.) 

And as others have emphasized the big issue determining success to this rebuild deals with our near term goaltending situation. That's a big challenge that the GM has to address. 

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Power should be in the AHL  Why are we handing him a roster spot when he hasn't even earned it yet ? 

When Power was on the World team with top tier pro players he started as a fringe defenseman. Based on his play his role increased and became a first of second pairing ?? player who got a lot of minutes in high pressure situations. He will undoubtedly earn a roster spot and important role with the Sabres in his rookie year. That's why he was the first pick in last year's draft and is shining in college. 

[French Collection]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When Power was on the World team with top tier pro players he started as a fringe defenseman. Based on his play his role increased and became a first of second pairing ?? player who got a lot of minutes in high pressure situations. He will undoubtedly earn a roster spot and important role with the Sabres in his rookie year. That's why he was the first pick in last year's draft and is shining in college. 

He was better than Colin Miller on that team.

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

The owner probably wants to tank and get the star player there's no way the wanted to win this year .

3 key examples.

3.Taking on Boychuks contract  When they could easily used that money to get a veteran center or help us win 

 

This comment still baffles me and I have seen it in other venues as well. The Sabres could literally add the most expensive player in the entire league to their roster and still have 7 million in cap space. That doesn't even take into account that if they spent to the cap with Boychuk's contract on the team they go then spend his contract over the cap because they would move him to LTIR (not that this even matters). It is such a non issue in any way and was actually savvy of Adams to add fake money to the cap so he can maneuver at the deadline. This is just such a bizarre thing to be critical of because it doesn't mean anything about winning or losing. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When Power was on the World team with top tier pro players he started as a fringe defenseman. Based on his play his role increased and became a first of second pairing ?? player who got a lot of minutes in high pressure situations. He will undoubtedly earn a roster spot and important role with the Sabres in his rookie year. That's why he was the first pick in last year's draft and is shining in college. 

Oh yea, I forgot Power ended up top pair at the worlds. That was crazy in all honesty. 

[kas23]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh yea, I forgot Power ended up top pair at the worlds. That was crazy in all honesty. 

Agreed. That Power will be in the AHL next season is a head scratcher. I mean, what? He was the first player chosen in last year’s draft and has taken a large step already from where he was at draft time. Given our current talent, he could be playing on our team this year if he needed to. 

[dudacek]

15 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Counting on rookies is a bad idea and could hurt them if rushed we tried that many times and didn't work out 

Not sure what you mean by counting on. What is being described is not Bowman handing the leadership keys to the Barrasso/Housley group before they were ready, or Casey Mitts being asked to play 2C before he was ready.

It’s about replacing the JAG foot soldiers on the roster with players who look like they are ready.

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Which ones of Krebs, Quinn, JJ, Tuch, Power, Samuelsson are they rushing?

 

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Power should be in the AHL  Why are we handing him a roster spot when he hasn't even earned it yet ? 

How many 1st overall picks should not have been in the NHL at 19?

How unusual is it for a top 10 forward to be in the NHL in his D+3 year?

How unusual is it for a top 20 forward to be in the NHL in his D+4 year?

How unusual is it for a 2nd round defenceman to be in the NHL in his D+5 year?

How many of these players are not showing the dominance at their current level that is usually a sign that they are ready to take a step?

Who in that group is being rushed and how?

Edited November 21, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Montreal Canadiens won the cup in 1986 with 9 rookies in the lineup:

Skrudland, Dahlin, Lalor and Maley were 22, Roy, Lemieux and Kordic were 20, Richer and Svoboda 19

Some eventually proved to be really good players, others not so much. All were ready for roles asked of them.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that @Brawndo’s group is already better than the Haydens and Butchers they will be replacing.

[Thorny]

On 11/20/2021 at 2:09 PM, Buffalonill said:

The league is built around elite talent nothing more nothing less 

To win the Stanley Cup, this seems probably true. 

It so happens though that the odds of winning a Stanley Cup are very poor, at the best of times, and it may seem crazy to you - but some are done with sacrificing the present in the name of a future that may not come anyways.

Personally, I find it logical to prioritize a more achievable goal that will still result in a happy sporting experience in the meantime, and lest the rest of the chips fall where they may. I was happy watching the team make the playoffs, and lose at some point. 

There was a lot of winning there to be had. A lot of good memories. 

[Thorny]

18 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres are bringing in Krebs, Peterka, Quinn, Tuch, Power and Samuelsson to the roster next year. 
 

I think an upgrade to goaltending is made by a trade. 
 

This team will be closer to the playoffs than the Top Three next season 
 

 

Bolded will revelatory for whether winning next year is the priority and I'd like nothing more for what you lay out to be exactly the truth 

Edit - Though I guess technically 22nd place is close to the playoffs than top 3 lotto, so I'm hoping that to be a little more than *strictly* true. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

So you're going to have 5 rookies + a rookie in the top 5 playing next year ? 6 in total i don't see it 

This is a salient point honestly. I'm not sure where people think we'd go with 5 rookies on the roster - it's not that common 

That we need to go back 35 years to find a "hey look what they did!" example is more so the exception that proves the rule, given it happened before I was born and I'm pretty old 

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is a salient point honestly. I'm not sure where people think we'd go with 5 rookies on the roster - it's not that common 

That we need to go back 35 years to find a "hey look what they did!" example is more so the exception that proves the rule, given it happened before I was born and I'm pretty old 

Maybe you’d prefer the ‘06 Sabres, with Vanek, Miller, Pominville, Roy, Gaustad? The implication was it was stupid to go with 5, I pointed out a team that had 9 and won the cup, so maybe 5 isn’t that stupid?

Given where Samuelsson, Power, Quinn, Krebs and Peterka are in their development curves, the holes in the Sabres lineup, and what we know about the franchise plan, why wouldn’t they be in the lineup next year?

Edited November 21, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Maybe you’d prefer the ‘06 Sabres, with Vanek, Miller, Pominville, Roy, Gaustad? The implication was it was stupid to go with 5, I pointed out a team that had 9 and won the cup, so maybe 5 isn’t that stupid?

Given where Samuelsson, Power, Quinn, Krebs and Peterka are in their development curves, the holes, in the Sabres lineup, and what we know about the franchise plan, why wouldn’t they be in the lineup next year?

I find '06 to be an anomaly due to the situation created from the lockout - some of those guys would have come in later than they normally would have. 

Regardless, it's definitely not "stupid" to go with 5 and I wasn't supporting that side of the argument. Merely that the fact we'd have so many rookies on the roster should probably temper expectations. Those players could *rightly* replace the guys they are replacing, yet the outlook for the team itself not exactly be gangbusters. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, French Collection said:

He was better than Colin Miller on that team.

He ended up playing better than a number of pro players on that team. 

[Taro T]

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I find '06 to be an anomaly due to the situation created from the lockout - some of those guys would have come in later than they normally would have. 

Regardless, it's definitely not "stupid" to go with 5 and I wasn't supporting that side of the argument. Merely that the fact we'd have so many rookies on the roster should probably temper expectations. Those players could *rightly* replace the guys they are replacing, yet the outlook for the team itself not exactly be gangbusters. 

Those kids will give the Sabres a bottom 6 that MIGHT create issues for opponents, but only if the guys penciled in for the top 6 can keep teams honest. 

The Sabres need to be better across the board & with the removal of the guys that left in the off-season (& later) nearly everybody is playing a line higher than they should be when the roster is healthy.  It isn't, and pretty much everybody is 2 lines over their heads.

Don't expect Mittelstadt is a true 1 next year nor that Cozens or Thompson will be a true #2 next year.  But if they all can be good to adequate 2's and Krebs or somebody else can be a 3, then it could be a bubble team w/ a real goalie & the kids.  (Just getting tired of the if this & if that, & if that other thing all happen, then they might be relevant game. Eventually they will be relevant again, but until they are, they aren't & it's getting old.)

[Thorny]

36 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Those kids will give the Sabres a bottom 6 that MIGHT create issues for opponents, but only if the guys penciled in for the top 6 can keep teams honest. 

The Sabres need to be better across the board & with the removal of the guys that left in the off-season (& later) nearly everybody is playing a line higher than they should be when the roster is healthy.  It isn't, and pretty much everybody is 2 lines over their heads.

Don't expect Mittelstadt is a true 1 next year nor that Cozens or Thompson will be a true #2 next year.  But if they all can be good to adequate 2's and Krebs or somebody else can be a 3, then it could be a bubble team w/ a real goalie & the kids.  (Just getting tired of the if this & if that, & if that other thing all happen, then they might be relevant game. Eventually they will be relevant again, but until they are, they aren't & it's getting old.)

Ya - the biggest thing about 06 is (aside from Miller (and I don't think we have that guy coming next year)) those players were brought up and into roles where they'd be getting mismatches. Possible due to being below the lines Briere and Drury were manning in the top 6 - we don't have those guys in place right now 

[kas23]

I don’t think anyone here is advocating putting all rookies on the same line. If 1/4 of all our forwards are rookies, this isn’t so bad, especially is they are evenly distributed. Likewise, Mule and Power won’t likely be on the same pair. Plus, Mule is highly likely to be called up relatively soon. So, next year, he won’t be so fresh.