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Bullying and Hockey, NHL Draft Prospect gets Undrafted


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31 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

He’s a massive jerk for doing that a few years ago, obviously. And he’s paying for it now. Good.

Is there, at some point, ever, while he can play a game competitively, try to make a career out of it? Or is he banned for the rest of his “younger years” from pursuing his passion as far as his talent can take him, to make a living playing a game?

If you want to hire him go ahead. I don't want to hire him and I won't support your business if you do. Do whatever you want.

If he wants forgiveness he should talk to the deity of his choice. That's not my department. 

Also, maybe I'll consider it when the kid he tortured can eat an ice cream without thinking about Mitch Miller's urine. That seems fair.

Edited by Let's Go B-Lo
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1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

If you want to hire him go ahead. I don't want to hire him and I won't support your business if you do. Do whatever you want.

If he wants forgiveness he should talk to the deity of his choice. That's not my department. 

Also, maybe I'll consider it when the kid he tortured can eat an ice cream without thinking about Mitch Miller's urine. That seems fair.

So, from your perspective, no?  He should never be able to have a career playing pro hockey.

I just worry about going down this road of trial by mob.  I can’t align myself with the idea that if someone (in the public eye) makes mistakes, they should be punished, not only by judge, jury, and the law, but also by taking away from them the thing which they love the most, or thing they are best at.  Forever.

That kind of mentality does not leave much room for the very human concepts of enlightenment and redemption.

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1 minute ago, Curt said:

So, from your perspective, no?  He should never be able to have a career playing pro hockey.

I just worry about going down this road of trial by mob.  I can’t align myself with the idea that if someone (in the public eye) makes mistakes, they should be punished, not only by judge, jury, and the law, but also by taking away from them the thing which they love the most, or thing they are best at.  Forever.

That kind of mentality does not leave much room for the very human concepts of enlightenment and redemption.

I understand your concern about cancel culture, as it is a valid one. However I don’t think a team releasing their draft pick is a due process issue. To the best of my knowledge the kid wasn’t even signed yet. 

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I read that, according the person in question's mother, the bullying from Mitchell continued until Mitchell was 16. He's what, 18? There may come a time for the second chance, it's such a fundamentally necessary aspect of society, but I find it hard to believe he could be close to being able to grasp the severity of the atrocity he partook in, right now. Up to and including even if he thinks he can, right now. More time. 

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As someone who has ***** up so many times in life I’ve lost track, I want to feel empathy for the kid.  The details in the story make it extremely difficult.  He’s paying the piper.  I wish people were a little less cavalier about his future but I guess that’s human nature.  
 

His parents on the other hand, are almost certainly the root cause of his lack of compassion and extreme callousness toward a person who did nothing to deserve that kind of treatment.  I’d be real curious to hear stories of his upbringing and what led him to be so void of compassion.  
 

I have a hard time believing he came from two well adjusted, empathetic people.  There are probably some ghosts in their closet and demons that are finally seeing the light of day.  

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2 hours ago, Curt said:

So, from your perspective, no?  He should never be able to have a career playing pro hockey.

I just worry about going down this road of trial by mob.  I can’t align myself with the idea that if someone (in the public eye) makes mistakes, they should be punished, not only by judge, jury, and the law, but also by taking away from them the thing which they love the most, or thing they are best at.  Forever.

That kind of mentality does not leave much room for the very human concepts of enlightenment and redemption.

So he gets to take away something from someone else and that's ok then.

We all need to get over it so he can do what he wants to do because he has a talent and a desire to do something.

He can literally abuse a disabled person and we just need to move on because that conflicts with what his career aspirations are.

Like I said. He can't work for me. He can work for you. Do whatever you want. There are people who abuse the disabled and those who don't. It's not that hard for me.

Since I'm down this path let me throw this out there. Any of you arguing for this piece of human excrement to get a second chance, on his own terms, better be IRATE that Colin Kaepernick is still unemployed.

 

Edited by Let's Go B-Lo
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I'm pretty sure I'm oversimplifying things here, but the US is famous for giving people a second chance.  Take a look at your voting ballot if you don't believe me.  The bar is actually kind of low.  All you need to do is apologize sincerely, and be a little bit less of a dick going forward.  I get the distinct impression that the average citizen does not believe that Mitchell has checked either one of those two boxes.  That's on him and his advisors/family, not "cancel culture".

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3 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

So he gets to take away something from someone else and that's ok then.

We all need to get over it so he can do what he wants to do because he has a talent and a desire to do something.

He can literally abuse a disabled person and we just need to move on because that conflicts with what his career aspirations are.

Like I said. He can't work for me. He can work for you. Do whatever you want. There are people who abuse the disabled and those who don't. It's not that hard for me.

Since I'm down this path let me throw this out there. Any of you arguing for this piece of human excrement to get a second chance, on his own terms, better be IRATE that Colin Kaepernick is still unemployed.

 

So, there is a lot here that I didn’t say.

I don’t think that anyone needs to forgive this guy or hire him, and I wouldn’t blame anyone for not.  That’s up to you.  I’m not even saying that he is worthy of forgiveness or has changed for the better.  I’m not nearly close enough to the situation to judge that.

What I am saying is that if someone wants to give him a 2nd chance (the Arizona Coyotes in this case) maybe “the mob” should not demand his excommunication.  Forgiveness can be tricky though, because the person must be deemed worthy of that forgiveness, and everyone will have a different view on that.

He doesn’t necessarily get to do whatever he wants, but other people don’t automatically get to dictate what he can and can’t do for the rest of his life either.  He has to live with the shadow of his mistakes but they don’t define his entire existence.  That’s life.

As for Kapernick, I don’t see the connection at all.  Kapernick never did anything wrong in the first place.  It’s a huge load of BS that he was essentially blackballed and it’s one of the reasons that I’ll probably never go back to being a fan of the NFL.

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This guy's a real piece of work and I don't want anything good for him BUT I'm just going to say if anyone's all self righteous about bullying what the hell are they doing watching and supporting sports???? Not suggesting EVERY athlete is/was a bully, but come on, we all went to high school. the stud jocks are for the most part ALL bullies, it's just that some of them less than others and some grow out of it, but jock culture is full of bullying everywhere.

Going to guarantee you lots of your old Sabres heroes (like every team) were bullies, and most of them never even realized it cause there were no repercussions for it way back then. Star athletes ruled the school and nobody stopped them. 

Edited by PerreaultForever
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On 10/30/2020 at 11:46 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Not suggesting EVERY athlete is/was a bully, but come on, we all went to high school. the stud jocks are for the most part ALL bullies, it's just that some of them less than others and some grow out of it, but jock culture is full of bullying everywhere.

I'm sorry this happened to you.  It wasn't ok then and it isn't ok now.  The best we can do going forward is teach, mentor, and set the example.

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On 10/29/2020 at 8:29 PM, North Buffalo said:

Bullying happens and kids test their limits but its up to parents to put cabash on it quickly.  The relentlessness of what this kid did shows me his parents didnt do squat and kid didnt learn the lesson.

School is at fault too if they let this happen for years.

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40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Note that his response wasn't to try and prove he's grown and learned. He simply left. 

Ehhh, a kid was just dropped from the NHL and college program, just like that, not sure there is much now he can do to prove anything by sulking in the US of A. Maybe he's an @$$hat, maybe he just had bad friends and out of touch parents. I don't blame him for going to Russia to play in a fixed league. 

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On 11/1/2020 at 2:17 PM, IKnowPhysics said:

I'm sorry this happened to you.  It wasn't ok then and it isn't ok now.  The best we can do going forward is teach, mentor, and set the example.

You read me wrong. I played hockey and football and I saw it happen. I was the "come on ........fill in name.....leave him alone" guy a few times but I also confess I never stopped anything, I was one of the guys. Not proud of it, but it was way back then and can't be changed now.

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I'm going to pose a serious question.  Should we now ban all kids with criminal records from playing NCAA sports?  Should they be banned from playing pro sports?    

I remember SI did a study of college football a while back and found a significant number of players had criminal records of some sort, with many having records for Assault, Domestic Violence Burglary and Theft.  I don't think it's any different now.  So if these kids continue to get a second, third and fourth chance, why not this kid who has legally paid his debt to society?  Remember giving people a second chance is why we have a juvenile code.  

None of this will ever excuse what he did.  It was disgusting and people are and should be offended.  However, we need to be consistent in how we treat cases like this.  Either we believe in second chances or we don't.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm going to pose a serious question.  Should we now ban all kids with criminal records from playing NCAA sports?  Should they be banned from playing pro sports?    

I remember SI did a study of college football a while back and found a significant number of players had criminal records of some sort, with many having records for Assault, Domestic Violence Burglary and Theft.  I don't think it's any different now.  So if these kids continue to get a second, third and fourth chance, why not this kid who has legally paid his debt to society?  Remember giving people a second chance is why we have a juvenile code.  

None of this will ever excuse what he did.  It was disgusting and people are and should be offended.  However, we need to be consistent in how we treat cases like this.  Either we believe in second chances or we don't.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other regarding this.  Nearly entirely because sports at all levels is chock full of bullies.  Lets face it, sports is testosterone on parade.  We're watching and cheering for bullies every time we cheer on our favorite team.

The difference between this kid and the "significant number of players" you mention is that this entered the public debate and any organization that brings this kid in is going to face scrutiny.  Life isn't fair that way.  I don't feel conflicted in any way over that.  You do your stuff and if the public roars loud enough you pay for the mistake.  Any one of us could put ourselves in a social media situation that causes our employer to consider their options. Are we being unfairly singled out?  Sure.  So what.  It is what it is.

Having said that, I am all for a more strongly enforced code of conduct and character policy that would almost certainly exclude this kid and others like him from the sport at an advanced level. But I know I'll never see it implemented in any meaningful way. 

I'm comfortable with how this played out

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4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm going to pose a serious question.  Should we now ban all kids with criminal records from playing NCAA sports?  Should they be banned from playing pro sports?    

I remember SI did a study of college football a while back and found a significant number of players had criminal records of some sort, with many having records for Assault, Domestic Violence Burglary and Theft.  I don't think it's any different now.  So if these kids continue to get a second, third and fourth chance, why not this kid who has legally paid his debt to society?  Remember giving people a second chance is why we have a juvenile code.  

None of this will ever excuse what he did.  It was disgusting and people are and should be offended.  However, we need to be consistent in how we treat cases like this.  Either we believe in second chances or we don't.

I'm fine with not giving scholarships to criminals in any sport.

I also believe that public institutions and private institutions that hand out public money shouldn't be giving athletic scholarships to foreign athletes.

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It is regrettable he didn't learn his lesson and get comeuppance in a more timely manner, but the loss of an NHL signing and UND scholarship will hopefully be a punishment he learns from. It's never too late to learn from your past. And he gets a second chance in the KHL.

The cynic in me simply says he's obviously not that good. Otherwise his second chance would have been with UND and the NHL.

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6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm going to pose a serious question.  Should we now ban all kids with criminal records from playing NCAA sports?  Should they be banned from playing pro sports?    

I remember SI did a study of college football a while back and found a significant number of players had criminal records of some sort, with many having records for Assault, Domestic Violence Burglary and Theft.  I don't think it's any different now.  So if these kids continue to get a second, third and fourth chance, why not this kid who has legally paid his debt to society?  Remember giving people a second chance is why we have a juvenile code.  

None of this will ever excuse what he did.  It was disgusting and people are and should be offended.  However, we need to be consistent in how we treat cases like this.  Either we believe in second chances or we don't.

I'm not advocating that his hockey aspirations forever be snuffed out. What I do know that it is not an unusual practice for someone who is offered a scholarship and then gets involved in some type of bad behavior that doesn't necessarily have to be criminal behavior to have their scholarship offer revoked. There is a code of conduct that needs to be met even when you haven't officially entered the program. 

When a player enters the pro ranks, even at a low level, that player/person is a representative of the organization. If the organization doesn't believe that the player properly represents the organization's values it has a right to separate itself from the person. 

Young people make mistakes and get involved in bad behavior.  There is nothing unusual about that. However, this was a pattern of behavior that exhibited a level of cruelty against a special needs student that was pathological in nature. This wasn't an incident. It was a recurring pattern of cruel behavior against someone who was defenseless. 

I don't wish this kid ill will. I hope that he gets the help he needs to understand what he did. From the story that I read I didn't get the sense that he was genuinely remorseful. He may have complicated his pathway to his hockey aspirations but he will still be allowed to play the game in the KHL. He will have more opportunities to pursue his hockey career than will his victim have opportunities in life. 

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