GDT - Florida Panthers @ Buffalo Sabres - January 3, 2019 - 7:00 PM

[Thorny]

27 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Fair enough. I think you are reading far too much into my initial comment. I also think ignoring the recent dip in his play relative to the standards he himself has set so far in his NHL career is ridiculous.

And, to be clear, Rasmus Dahlin will be great.

It definitely should not be ignored.

But i'll forgive it of fans before I do of Housley. He continues to play Dahlin on his inferior side with Scandella, leading to this dip. Housley is out to lunch.

[PASabreFan]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Not soft as in lacking toughness, soft as in lacking urgency, or authority.

I have no doubt it will fade as he matures, but right now he is clearly a boy playing with men way too often. He’s out of sync with the power of the game around him and it results in poorly executed clears, pinches and coverages.

You’re right. There is no way a boy that young - particularly playing defence - is going to play the game like a man. That’s why I will get frustrated with his play at times, why I forgive him and why it is so rare for someone his age to be doing what he is doing.

Would the word "deferential" apply here?

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Did the Earth stop spinning?  You and I are in agreement without going through 2 years of discussion?  Stop the mother ####### presses.  ;)

Well, you did say you thought Okposo had been checked twice. I don't agree with that. It appears his skate got caught up in a Panther's skate and that led him to start tumbling.

Better?

[...]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It definitely should not be ignored.

But i'll forgive it of fans before I do of Housley. He continues to play Dahlin on his inferior side with Scandella, leading to this dip. Housley is out to lunch.

I hate to keep coming off here as an apologist, but I'm only picking the narratives I disagree with.  I really don't think Phil is doing his job poorly, indeed, I actually think he's a better coach than Lindy was/is.  

Phil is in a tough spot - he has a roster that he can try and take in one direction and get as many wins as possible at the expense of teaching and preparing them how to be good long-term.  On the other side of that, he has a core group that could be really good for a long time so long as they're developed properly, which would be at the expense of more wins.  

So far, I think he has managed to balance all of that appropriately.  We have seen some very exciting games - which is what we all were after going into this season.  What I really like is his system.  It just works great when the team is playing it correctly.  There should be no doubt of that by anyone who has watched the Sabres this year.  When was the last time this team was able to cycle long in the offensive zone, pinning the other team in front of the net?

Their breakouts are efficient and clearly work.  The defensive game has been cleaned up substantially.  The PP is working okay and PK is great.  They have gotten into the habit of a 5 man offense.

The only thing lacking is their o-zone entries which is clearly due, mainly, to a lack of the offense being able to maintain possession crossing the blue line.  A player like KO hasn't had the habit of dumping the puck in exercised from his being. 

Within all of this, Phil is developing these kids.  Tage and Dahlin are excellent examples.  I think Pilut is another.  Mitts is the only outlier who isn't catching on. Eichel and Samson have clearly benefited, same with McCabe, and I think even Risto's game has improved, although he still needs to better understand possession.

 

 

[Thorny]

Fine post, but what does that have to do with continually playing Dahlin in the wrong spot? He's struggling now with his development of Dahlin. 

And the powerplay isn't okay, it's unreasonably bad. That's on Phil, too. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

4 minutes ago, ... said:

I hate to keep coming off here as an apologist, but I'm only picking the narratives I disagree with.  I really don't think Phil is doing his job poorly, indeed, I actually think he's a better coach than Lindy was/is.  

Phil is in a tough spot - he has a roster that he can try and take in one direction and get as many wins as possible at the expense of teaching and preparing them how to be good long-term.  On the other side of that, he has a core group that could be really good for a long time so long as they're developed properly, which would be at the expense of more wins.  

So far, I think he has managed to balance all of that appropriately.  We have seen some very exciting games - which is what we all were after going into this season.  What I really like is his system.  It just works great when the team is playing it correctly.  There should be no doubt of that by anyone who has watched the Sabres this year.  When was the last time this team was able to cycle long in the offensive zone, pinning the other team in front of the net?

Their breakouts are efficient and clearly work.  The defensive game has been cleaned up substantially.  The PP is working okay and PK is great.  They have gotten into the habit of a 5 man offense.

The only thing lacking is their o-zone entries which is clearly due, mainly, to a lack of the offense being able to maintain possession crossing the blue line.  A player like KO hasn't had the habit of dumping the puck in exercised from his being. 

Within all of this, Phil is developing these kids.  Tage and Dahlin are excellent examples.  I think Pilut is another.  Mitts is the only outlier who isn't catching on. Eichel and Samson have clearly benefited, same with McCabe, and I think even Risto's game has improved, although he still needs to better understand possession.

 

 

To add to that...their star player gets hurt and he had them coming to play and win inspite of it all. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Fine post, but what does that have to do with continually playing Dahlin in the wrong spot? He's struggling now with his development of Dahlin. 

And the powerplay isn't okay, it's unreasonably bad. That's on Phil, too. 

I thought Dahlin said earlier in the year that he liked playing his off side? I could be wrong, can anyone confirm?

[...]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Fine post, but what does that have to do with continually playing Dahlin in the wrong spot? He's struggling now with his development of Dahlin. 

And the powerplay isn't okay, it's unreasonably bad. That's on Phil, too. 

Do you teach or coach hockey at a high level?  I don't.  There is nothing outside of what Phil is doing on this particular matter that makes me question his ability to develop or coach a team.

There is clearly a reason for it, hence the question of whether you coach or teach, because maybe someone who does might understand this particular nuance and can explain it.  I am personally not bothered by it.  A young kid like Dahlin needs to be put in scenarios that draw out his strengths and sometimes it's not pretty to outsiders.  That's how I see it as an outsider.

The PP can get set up - that's the coaches contribution.  Phil can't go out there and score after they get set up.  

If the team had finishers, perhaps not only would the PP have better stats, but so would the 5x5 and the standings for that matter.

Edited January 4, 2019 by ...

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Something has happened to the PP this season.  Not sure what, but was it not near the top last season?  With even fewer finishers than this season, I think, although Kane and ROR are both gone.  Maybe they had significant contributions on the PP last season.

Edited January 4, 2019 by New Scotland (NS)
my keyboard is faulty, I say ... FAULTY!!

[inkman]

31 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Something has happened to the PP this season.  Not sure what, but was it not near the top last season?  With even fewer finishers than this season, I think, although Kane and ROR are both gone.  Maybe they had significant contributions on the PP last season.

ROR was a deft distributor and finisher on the PP

[Samson's Flow]

2 minutes ago, inkman said:

ROR was a deft distributor and finisher on the PP

Yes i wouldn't underrate the impact having a capable finisher on the right side opposite Jack contributed towards having a dangerous unit. Right now our PP1 is too focused on puck movement to the left (Jack's) side, which makes it easier for the PK to defend if it is only 1/2 of the ice, even if we have great skill players there.

Maybe move Samson back in front of the net and put Skinner on the right side (old ROR spot)? Or vice versa.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, ... said:

Do you teach or coach hockey at a high level?  I don't.  There is nothing outside of what Phil is doing on this particular matter that makes me question his ability to develop or coach a team.

There is clearly a reason for it, hence the question of whether you coach or teach, because maybe someone who does might understand this particular nuance and can explain it.  I am personally not bothered by it.  A young kid like Dahlin needs to be put in scenarios that draw out his strengths and sometimes it's not pretty to outsiders.  That's how I see it as an outsider.

The PP can get set up - that's the coaches contribution.  Phil can't go out there and score after they get set up.  

If the team had finishers, perhaps not only would the PP have better stats, but so would the 5x5 and the standings for that matter.

The great debate ender.

32 minutes ago, inkman said:

ROR was a deft distributor and finisher on the PP

No doubt. Yet we still have more than enough talent to be considerably higher in the powerplay rankings. It could mean extra points, and a playoff spot. It's one of the things almost completely in their control. 

[That Aud Smell]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The great debate ender.

Bro, do you even lift?

Also, I thought @... 's post above was really good.

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Not sure what you mean by that last sentence 

I don’t think Dahlin is lazy and I do think he’s good. I also think his flaws are all about being 18 and that his skills are such he will soon be great.

None of that changes the fact that over the past few weeks he’s been making too many errors.

It’s no different than the learning curve Eichel went through from being awesome for an 18-year-old to simply awesome.

In the three games since  the St Louis game HCPH has dropped Dahlin’s minutes from 22 to the 16-17 rande, more in line with where they should be now that McCabe, Scandella, Beaulieu are all back in the lineup and healthy. 

 

Dahlin is fine.  At 18 he is ahead of Hedmann and Karlsson.  He is a very young rookie, mistakes will happen. 

[PASabreFan]

49 minutes ago, inkman said:

ROR was a deft distributor and finisher on the PP

I might have to double up on my Pervertia™.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Something has happened to the PP this season.  Not sure what, but was it not near the top last season?  With even fewer finishers than this season, I think, although Kane and ROR are both gone.  Maybe they had significant contributions on the PP last season.

I’m no expert but I see 5 players staying in essentially the same spot moving the puck around “deftly”.  What I don’t see is anyone in front of the goalie.  What I don’t see are shooting lanes.  What it looks like is the PK knows where to be to cut off our shooting lanes and they are content to let our 5 guys “deftly “ pass the puck around the perimeter.  Once we run out of patience or time, we shoot and that shot gets blocked before it gets to the net, leading to a clear or the PK team executing a breakout.  

Maybe , some movement by our 5 guys would help?   Maybe then the PK wont know exactly how to cut off and block our shots?   Maybe some traffic in front would help too?  Maybe traffic in front would force a PK guy to move to him and open a lane for a better shot? 

I watch other teams teams and they rarely employ the “5 player perimeter passing” technique like we do.  

I’m no expert but I  think we are way too stationary and we do the same things over and over.  

Edited January 4, 2019 by Pimlach

[bunomatic]

Love seeing Yandle fly off the handle when we play these kitty cats. I think his plate shifts a little at times.

[...]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

The great debate ender.

That wasn't really the intent, which I thought you might get if you read on.  I get not liking the way something looks on the surface, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you might have further insight to share which may support your criticism of Phil's usage of Dahlin.

[...]

Coincidentally, there's a News article out on Dahlin today: https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/04/buffalo-sabres-nhl-rasmus-dahlin-2/

Here, @MakeSabresGrr8Again, I found your quote:

Some might suggest the absence of a consistent partner reflects poorly on Dahlin, perhaps hinting he's difficult to play with. Housley and Smith would disagree.

Dahlin’s seven-game stint with McCabe, for instance, illustrated the youngster’s adaptability.

“Quite frankly, we asked Jake to go to the right side and Dahlin to go on the left,” Smith said of the now-injured McCabe, who, like Dahlin, shoots left. “We found Jake was struggling a little bit on the right side, so we put him back on the left side and his game took off. It didn’t matter where Dahlin was; he was playing just as well on both sides of the ice.”

“I actually like the right side a lot,” Dahlin said, eliciting images of Red Wings great Nicklas Lidstrom. “I can play both, so it doesn’t matter.”

That's from https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1641832

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by ...

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

ROR was a deft distributor and finisher on the PP

Yes he was, and he was in the high slot when that PP was working.  It did next to nothing when he was on the 1/2 wall.

They need to get back to Bob Woods' system.  Every time they deviate from it, the PP goes to squat.

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Would the word "deferential" apply here?

Well, you did say you thought Okposo had been checked twice. I don't agree with that. It appears his skate got caught up in a Panther's skate and that led him to start tumbling.

Better?

Much.  Danke.  ;)

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, ... said:

Coincidentally, there's a News article out on Dahlin today: https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/04/buffalo-sabres-nhl-rasmus-dahlin-2/

Here, @MakeSabresGrr8Again, I found your quote:

Some might suggest the absence of a consistent partner reflects poorly on Dahlin, perhaps hinting he's difficult to play with. Housley and Smith would disagree.

Dahlin’s seven-game stint with McCabe, for instance, illustrated the youngster’s adaptability.

“Quite frankly, we asked Jake to go to the right side and Dahlin to go on the left,” Smith said of the now-injured McCabe, who, like Dahlin, shoots left. “We found Jake was struggling a little bit on the right side, so we put him back on the left side and his game took off. It didn’t matter where Dahlin was; he was playing just as well on both sides of the ice.”

“I actually like the right side a lot,” Dahlin said, eliciting images of Red Wings great Nicklas Lidstrom. “I can play both, so it doesn’t matter.”

That's from https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1641832

 

Thanx, I was pretty sure he had said that.

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, ... said:

That wasn't really the intent, which I thought you might get if you read on.  I get not liking the way something looks on the surface, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you might have further insight to share which may support your criticism of Phil's usage of Dahlin.

Of course I read the whole post. The statistics illustrate that Dahlin has been noticeably worse on the right side. Why would it be a good thing to play him on the right side? I'm basing my take on statistical evidence, you are theorizing that Housley must have some special reason we just aren't privy to. If not, that it's important for Dahlin to be put in a positional situation he's not as good at. Why? Should we put Sam back at centre?

I don't care if Dahlin likes the right side. I care what side he plays better on. 

I'll see if I can find the chart I posted a bit ago. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorny]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:46 PM, Thorny said:

Shoutout to Chad DeMominicis for this:

 

So it seems as though Dahlin has been noticeably weaker on the right side. That LHD imbalance many spoke about before the season started seems to be factoring in, just with Nelson being the injured RHD instead of Bogosian so far. 

Found it. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Thorny

[...]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Found it. 

OMG! SOMEONE BETTER FORWARD THIS TO HOUSLEY! I bet he has no idea!

[Thorny]

Just now, ... said:

OMG! SOMEONE BETTER FORWARD THIS TO HOUSLEY! I bet he has no idea!

Sorry these particular statistics aren't up to your standards? What exactly did I do to deserve the snark? You requested further support of my argument and I found it for you. 

[...]

Just now, Thorny said:

Sorry these particular statistics aren't up to your standards? What exactly did I do to deserve the snark? You requested further support of my argument and I found it for you. 

"Of course I read the whole post. The statistics illustrate that Dahlin has been noticeably worse on the right side. Why would it be a good thing to play him on the right side? I'm basing my take on statistical evidence, you are theorizing that Housley must have some special reason we just aren't privy to. If not, that it's important for Dahlin to be put in a positional situation he's not as good at. Why? Should we put Sam back at centre?

I don't care if Dahlin likes the right side. I care what side he plays better on. "