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dudacek

UPDATE: Sam Reinhart signs 2-year extension -- $3.65MM per year

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28 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Bad blind pass on the PP caused the SH goal and turned the game. He does that. It's like a panic move. He didn't need to throw the puck away like that. 

Just remember this, when Pominville was on that line some people talked about resigning him. Off that line he looks like a has been dud again.

Jack makes his linemates look better. It's as simple as that. Show me Reinhart scoring or dominating while not playing with Jack and maybe I'd get on the sign him long term bandwagon.

You are forgetting that the reason Reinhart was flipped with Pominville wasn't because Housley was looking to get Reinhart going.  It was because Pominville had hit a wall.

And rather than sit Pominville to let him recharge his batteries, he only got reduced responsibility & ice time.

Reinhart didn't initially click on the top line & after a good in game swap back, Jason got a couple more games on that line & did jack.

That line is VERY close to 2 goals per game since being reestablished.  Breaking it up won't right the other 3 lines.

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8 hours ago, Thorny said:

He's still only 23. Not out of the realm of possibility at all. 

He was recently declared the NHL's new Ryan Smyth, I'll see if I can find the tweet. Love that comparisson. 

 

I agree with everything in Bourne's tweet except the comparison to Ryan Smyth.  Totally different players IMHO.

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53 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with everything in Bourne's tweet except the comparison to Ryan Smyth.  Totally different players IMHO.

I'm assuming this is because Smyth was a man's man. Gritty, tough heart and soul kinda guy. Sam will never get those descriptors. 

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13 hours ago, inkman said:

I'm assuming this is because Smyth was a man's man. Gritty, tough heart and soul kinda guy. Sam will never get those descriptors. 

Yes, but also different playing styles, strengths and weaknesses and body types.  

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39 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Yes, but also different playing styles, strengths and weaknesses and body types.  

FWIW, 

Smyth 6'2" 192 lbs

Reinhart 6'1" 192 lbs

Edited by inkman

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On 12/8/2018 at 12:44 PM, mjd1001 said:

.

  He makes his mark by putting up points on the powerplay, and that does mean something. But, look at his stats this year and for his career...and of all the forwards that get comparable PP ice time across the league..he is mid-pack.  Now certainly every forward in the league isn't good enough to justify PP ice time, and his offensive skills do justify that ice time...but he certainly doesn't excel more than anyone else there.

So what is he?  He is a $3.5 to $4.5 million dollar player.  He is average to above average on the PP (where he gets his points) but in just about any other aspect of the game, he doesn't add anything over a 'replacement level' forward.  I'm good with him as long as he doesn't go on any extended point droughts.  I'm good with him at his current contract. However, I also won't be upset if he eventually gets moved in a trade.

19 points in his last 17games, just three of them on the PP.

18 ES points this year, same as Ryan Johnansen.

Blake Wheeler has 20, David Pastrnak 19, Niklas Backstrom 20, Steven Stamkos 19, Mark Scheifele 21, Phil Kessel 21, Mike Hoffman 14, Ryan O’Reilly 19, Alexander Barkov 17, Bo Horvat 19, Kuznetsov 14, Marchand 15, Drouin 19, Nugent Hopkins 15, Seguin 19, Pavelski 17, Patrik Laine 13, Benn 17, Barzal 12, Tarasenko 12...

Replacement level forwards?

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1 minute ago, dudacek said:

19 points in his last 17games, just three of them on the PP.

18 ES points this year, same as Ryan Johnansen.

Blake Wheeler has 20, David Pastrnak 19, Niklas Backstrom 20, Steven Stamkos 19, Mark Scheifele 21, Phil Kessel 21, Mike Hoffman 14, Ryan O’Reilly 19, Alexander Barkov 17, Bo Horvat 19, Kuznetsov 14, Marchand 15, Drouin 19, Nugent Hopkins 15, Seguin 19, Pavelski 17, Patrik Laine 13, Benn 17, Barzal 12, Tarasenko 12...

Replacement level forwards?

Yes, I stand by what I said.  I don't find any value in cherrypicking the last 17 games? Why 17 games this year and not the entire season?  Because it fits the argument to make him look better. 

And please, according to my post, tell me how he is BETTER than a replacement level player when not on the powerplay.  I specified he is no better than a replacement level player in terms of even strength, penalty killing, and late in the game....I stand by that and want to know what evidence there is over his career to think anything differently?

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20 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes, I stand by what I said.  I don't find any value in cherrypicking the last 17 games? Why 17 games this year and not the entire season?  Because it fits the argument to make him look better. 

And please, according to my post, tell me how he is BETTER than a replacement level player when not on the powerplay.  I specified he is no better than a replacement level player in terms of even strength, penalty killing, and late in the game....I stand by that and want to know what evidence there is over his career to think anything differently?

If you don't appreciate the things Sam does on the ice that help his team and teammates I don't think it's worth a discussion. 

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14 minutes ago, inkman said:

If you don't appreciate the things Sam does on the ice that help his team and teammates I don't think it's worth a discussion. 

I agree, if you don't see or wont' acknowledge his limitations that I mentioned in my original post...then it is not worth a discussion.

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8 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree, if you don't see or wont' acknowledge his limitations that I mentioned in my original post...then it is not worth a discussion.

I don't need to acknowledge anything. I'll take Sam for what he is not despise him for what's he not. When they have someone any ***** where near his ability to replace him, then I'll we can have a discussion. To just move him because he doesn't move like Matt Ellis (all arms and legs with no actual movement), I don't know what I tell ya. 

His advanced metrics tell a story of a player that makes everyone he plays with better. His sublime plays on the ice, help the team keep possession and create offense. 

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32 minutes ago, inkman said:

I don't need to acknowledge anything. I'll take Sam for what he is not despise him for what's he not. When they have someone any ***** where near his ability to replace him, then I'll we can have a discussion. To just move him because he doesn't move like Matt Ellis (all arms and legs with no actual movement), I don't know what I tell ya. 

His advanced metrics tell a story of a player that makes everyone he plays with better. His sublime plays on the ice, help the team keep possession and create offense. 

I have never said I hated him or want him moved.  I actually DO think...with what he brings to the PP, he is an above average player overall for this team.  The point of my whole post is....I'll feel a lot better about this team when you do have someone else who is a bit better so Sam is no longer 2nd on the team in ice time for forwards. Whether that is getting someone else and reducing his ice time by a minute or two...or putting him in a package to do so thats fine.

I'm above neutral on him...maybe my posts are coming across as negative on him because I have a lot of discussions with people at work who seem to think he is on the border of being an NHL superstar..and because he was the 2nd pick he should be almost as good as Eichel.

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5 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes, I stand by what I said.  I don't find any value in cherrypicking the last 17 games? Why 17 games this year and not the entire season?  Because it fits the argument to make him look better. 

And please, according to my post, tell me how he is BETTER than a replacement level player when not on the powerplay.  I specified he is no better than a replacement level player in terms of even strength, penalty killing, and late in the game....I stand by that and want to know what evidence there is over his career to think anything differently?

The last 17 games was to demonstrate how he has been producing primarily at even strength for the past month, something you indicated he has not done.

The rest of my post was about the entire season and says exactly that.

This season, Reinhart has been roughly as productive or better at even strength as those 20 players I listed. This year, those are his peers. That is not an opinion, that is fact. I will ask again, are those replacement level players?

Back it up. In the calendar year 2018, Reinhart is the 58th highest ES scoring player in the entire NHL. One less ES point than Tavares, Ehlers and Wheeler. The same as Johansen, Skinner and Forsberg. More than O’Reilly and Laine and Horvat and Scheifele and Parise and Tarasenko. That’s nearly a full season worth of games. There are nearly 400 forwards and 700 players in the NHL. 58th is replacement level?

As for your PK and late-game points, the vast majority of high scoring forwards don’t kill penalties so I’m not sure why you are singling out Reinhart. As I flipped through SH ice time leaders, I got into the 3rd page before I found any scorers. Larkin at 108, O’Reilly at 112 and Marchand at 150. I’m not sure what games you are watching, but Reinhart is always out for the Sabres late in games offensively and frequently defensively as well.

To me, it looks like substantial evidence that Reinhart arrived midway through his 3rd season as the player he will likely be for the next 10 years - a productive first-line NHLer, but not a star.

Unless you define 1st-line production as replacement level.

 

Edited by dudacek

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