The avoidance of CHL players

[Drunkard]

Why would the CHL ever agree to that?  They gain absolutely nothing from it.  The two leagues have always had a relationship and the NHL is not going to risk that for a rule that focuses on only a handful of players.

 

Looking at it long term they may need to change their agreement to keep pace with other leagues. Looking at the trends, other youth leagues like the USHL and European leagues are gaining ground and that increased market share is coming at the expense of the CHL leagues. It may not mean much now, but if those trends continue over the next say 10 years we may even see more Canadian players passing on the CHL in favor of the other leagues. If that happens they'll have to make changes to keep up.

[shrader]

I know.  That's why I said I'm not holding my breath.  Although really, the CHL doesn't have to agree to anything; the NHL can do whatever it wants.  But it will protect the relationship, as you say.

 

Do you know how it would work legally?  These kids do have contracts with the CHL teams.  I have no idea what is in those contracts, but it's very possible that the NHL can't in fact do whatever they want.

[Eleven]

Do you know how it would work legally?  These kids do have contracts with the CHL teams.  I have no idea what is in those contracts, but it's very possible that the NHL can't in fact do whatever they want.

 

From the brief bit of Internet research I've done, it seems that CHL contracts are only year-to-year.

[erickompositör72]

I was referring to the sentiment that Reinhart go directly to Rochester after being drafted. I thought that's what all of us wished would have happened.

[Thorny]

I am confused. What in the CHL agreement prevented the Sabres from sending Reinhart to Rochester in 2015? 

Reinhart had played A) 4 years and B) was old enough not to go back to the CHL. He had not 1 but 2 of the necessary pieces to never play in the CHL again in the summer of 2015. 

The CHL agreement had 0 impact on Reinhart's ability to play in the AHL. None. Jbot as gm would have sent him back to the WHL his first year post draft. He then could have sent him to the AHL the very next season, 2015. 

 

And he didn't even need the AHL that year: he had a good rookie season here in Buffalo. 

[LGR4GM]

I was referring to the sentiment that Reinhart go directly to Rochester after being drafted. I thought that's what all of us wished would have happened.

We may have. I honestly do not remember. I am glad he went back to the CHL, it was good for his development. 

[Neo]

From the brief bit of Internet research I've done, it seems that CHL contracts are only year-to-year.

I’m no expert and always enjoy being schooled ...

 

Isn’t, though, not the player’s contract with the CHL that’s the issue, but instead the NHL’s agreement with the CHL?

 

In other words, the NHL’s agreed with the CHL not to send players it drafts from the CHL to the AHL “until such time as ...”.

[Brawndo]

I’m no expert and always enjoy being schooled ...

Isn’t, though, not the player’s contract with the CHL that’s the issue, but instead the NHL’s agreement with the CHL?

In other words, the NHL’s agreed with the CHL not to send players it drafts from the CHL to the AHL “until such time as ...”.

This is correct.

 

The biggest chance should be that players need only to be returned to the CHL for one year post draft, after that the NHL Club makes all the decisions on where the player goes.

[shrader]

I’m no expert and always enjoy being schooled ...

 

Isn’t, though, not the player’s contract with the CHL that’s the issue, but instead the NHL’s agreement with the CHL?

 

In other words, the NHL’s agreed with the CHL not to send players it drafts from the CHL to the AHL “until such time as ...”.

If the players already have a contract in place with the CHL team, that is the reason why an agreement even exists between the two leagues. It’s the same reason there are transfer agreements with the European leagues. There needs to be some set standard on how they are able to essentially break the already existing deal that the player has.

[Taro T]

CHL contracts ARE year to year though.  If a player is drafted out of the CHL as an 18 year old and goes to the NHL the next season they wouldn't re-up their CHL deal.  The CHL club has no contract with the player to be broken.  The NHL/CHL agreement still bars that player from being sent to an AHL team until they turn 20.  They would have to return to their previous CHL team who still owns their rights (they don't become free agents) or play in the NHL.

But, just playing devil's advocate here, if the NHL did try to change their agreement w/ the CHL what is there to stop the CHL leagues from offering the kids multiyear deals? Specifically, multiyear team options, so the lesser players still get tossed aside but now the better prospects are locked in.

 

Both sides have a pretty good thing going; can't see the NHL trying to blow it up because Sam Reinhart might have been better off as an 18 y.o. Amerk than staying w/ Kootenay (or wherever).

[Neo]

Thank you, responders ....

 

I’ve been reading more. As many here know, I’m a free market and folllow the money guy. I’ll watch for developments through that lens.

 

The world producing top end talent for the NHL is a forty something year old phenomena that the CHL has competed against. The world providing a more user friendly interface is an increasingly important phenomena in light of the rapidly expanding pool of world wide talent.

 

Think of the various leagues as a demographic. There are Canadian, American, Swiss, Swedish, and Russian leagues, among others. If the bias against, or preference for, leagues other than the CHL becomes something more than speculation and matter of inquiry, the talent may begin to go elsewhere. Markets, and follow the money, is my advice.

 

Everything I’ve read indicates the CHL’s philosophy is designed to maintain a certain experience for its boys and young men. The CHL’s values are wholesome and intentions laudable. Most would agree it was the right thing to do when adopted as a response, I understand, to the NHL lowering the draft eligible age to 18 from 20. The NHL needed to compete with the WHA. Markets!

 

Further, the agreement probably still works for all but a handful of players, year to year. It doesn’t work for all.

 

I believe I know where this is going. When I was a boy, my union family explained to me that no self respecting American would own a foreign car. Many years later, I went to a family picnic and my retired Grand Uncle Dave had a Benz! It was an older model, modest and bought used. He showed it to us and caught me looking not at the car, but directly at him. He winked!

 

Over time, exposure to something that everyone else thinks works better will change your views and habits. First, you remind everyone of your original rationale. Next, you make the arguement that your rationale still holds. Last, you watch young men vote with their skates (forgive me). The NHL/CHL agreement is going to change. The CHL will see the supply of top talent, and the demand for its players, dwindle. Ultimately, and sooner rather than later, NHL teams will keep the rights to CHL talent longer and the talent will be AHL eligible sooner.

 

My grand parents, aunts and uncles were absolute beauties! Hey, BagBoy, we lived on Culver.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Neo

[Eleven]

I’m no expert and always enjoy being schooled ...

 

Isn’t, though, not the player’s contract with the CHL that’s the issue, but instead the NHL’s agreement with the CHL?

 

In other words, the NHL’s agreed with the CHL not to send players it drafts from the CHL to the AHL “until such time as ...”.

 

Yeah, and that was my original point.  The NHL holds all the power in that relationship.

[LGR4GM]

Yeah, and that was my original point. The NHL holds all the power in that relationship.

Just make it so chl guys are your prospects for 3 years and that you can have 1, 19 year old player you've drafted play in the AHL. If the chl can't take losing 31 players a year early, they have major issues.

[Neo]

Just make it so chl guys are your prospects for 3 years and that you can have 1, 19 year old player you've drafted play in the AHL. If the chl can't take losing 31 players a year early, they have major issues.

I think there’s something to that, but can’t find the need to replace talent as a concern wherever I look.

 

The CHL seems to say it’s not about its ability to find or replace talent, but instead its mission to provide a league where you can develop among peers. They speak to all, not just the NHL picks. I’m sympathetic to their desire to give kids their last, best, league or a path to university.

 

Of course, cynics and skeptics will say the real desire is to retain top talent, cloaked in lofty language. I believe the league. NCAA sports survived and thrived when draft years lowered. They’re age and trajectory peers.

 

Another thing I read, which appears in a number of articles, is that the CHL believes the NHL likes the system just as it is. The CHL indicates the NHL’s not approached it about change. Importantly, I read nothing with a 2018 date. Old news!

 

I am an amateur ....

Edited July 1, 2018 by Neo

[LGR4GM]

While you can go to Canadian university out of the CHL, you cannot go to the NCAA

[erickompositör72]

My impression is not that the NHL "likes" the agreement, but rather, the Canadians in the NHL bureaucracy uphold it as a pro-Canada measure. The CHL feels its ticket sales would decline if they lost talent to the NHL sooner.

 

As mentioned above, I don't think this jibes with a "free-market" approach of league relationships. It is very protectionist of the Canadians- but having lived there for a couple of years, they are very protectionist with so many of their policies, vis-a-vis the USA

[dudacek]

The NHL needs to wean itself back to a 20-year-old draft over a three- or four-year period.

The end result would make 18-year-olds eligible only in the first round and only if they opt in.

 

I’d get around the anti-trust by letting undrafted players under 20 sign with NHL teams as free agents, but only to short-term deals that expire when they are draft-eligible, at which point they go back into the draft.

[French Collection]

With a 19 or 20 year old draft there would be more guys stepping in to the NHL right away. If they are not ready, straight to the AHL.

 

I attend many OHL games and still would if the stars were in the AHL at 19. The real stars shine at 17-18 anyway while the Crosbys and McDavids are even dominant earlier than that.

[Neo]

If the players already have a contract in place with the CHL team, that is the reason why an agreement even exists between the two leagues. It’s the same reason there are transfer agreements with the European leagues. There needs to be some set standard on how they are able to essentially break the already existing deal that the player has.

I’m late to the dance, but there are many articles addressing the theory and the competitive .. POSTING ERROR ... I LOST HE BALANCE OF THIS POST TO A BATTERY SHUT DOWN ... AND FORGET WHAT I WAS SAYING!

 

 

practicality

My impression is not that the NHL "likes" the agreement, but rather, the Canadians in the NHL bureaucracy uphold it as a pro-Canada measure. The CHL feels its ticket sales would decline if they lost talent to the NHL sooner.

As mentioned above, I don't think this jibes with a "free-market" approach of league relationships. It is very protectionist of the Canadians- but having lived there for a couple of years, they are very protectionist with so many of their policies, vis-a-vis the USA

I have plenty of room for this view. As I wrote, I’m taking leadership at its word when it says “it’s for the kids”. If I err, it’s often in giving the benefit if the doubt, first. Edited July 1, 2018 by Neo

[shrader]

Just make it so chl guys are your prospects for 3 years and that you can have 1, 19 year old player you've drafted play in the AHL. If the chl can't take losing 31 players a year early, they have major issues.

 

This moves beyond an NHL-CHL issue at this point.  What you're describing becomes an issue for the PA.  Why would they have any interest in reducing the rights of the player by adding one more year of team control?  And also, we're not talking about the CHL losing 31 random players.  We're talking about them losing 31 of their best players.  It's hard to imagine that happening without a big drop in talent.  Let's not forget that those leagues are also a business just like the NHL is.