Brawndo Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Kyrou is a perfect example of why the CJH rules for prospects need to change. 1 yr post draft in the juniors if they don't make the big club and then in year 2 the NHL team can send them anywhere they want. Agree. Kane to the Blues for Kyrou and a 2nd would be a perfect scenario. He is a Top Prospect in their system and he will be eligible for the AHL next season if he doesn’t make the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Other than Drury and Briere (over 10 years ago) who is the pending FA that you wish we'd have re-signed instead of trading away? Campbell Abso-freakin'-lutely. I still don't know who we're lamenting. Gaustad? Roy? Ott? Miller? Vanek? Aside from the magical Tyler Myers rookie season, the team has been miserable to watch since Black Sunday. And letting the team bottom out and rebuilding is a fine strategy. it sucks that we hired maybe the worst person possible to make it happen, but it's still the best way to go from perennial loser to contender. For the record: it's a terrible strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Agree. Kane to the Blues for Kyrou and a 2nd would be a perfect scenario. He is a Top Prospect in their system and he will be eligible for the AHL next season if he doesn’t make the Sabres. I would ask for their first this year. Not saying they will but I would ask. Kyrou, 1st (probably in the 24-31 range), and a roster player (to make the money work) for Kane with 50% salary retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 I would ask for their first this year. Not saying they will but I would ask. Kyrou, 1st (probably in the 24-31 range), and a roster player (to make the money work) for Kane with 50% salary retention. I would as well, but I doubt Philadelphia will give The Blues their 1st back so St Louis can to trade it to Buffalo ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 I would as well, but I doubt Philadelphia will give The Blues their 1st back so St Louis can to trade it to Buffalo ;) That would be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 I would trade ROR for Pesce and something small, and I'd add something small to get Slavin, and the rest of their D I don't want for ROR. And it makes sense that Canes fans don't want him. They need their Jack Eichel, they have an ROR (Staal). He'd be an improvement to their lineup but also a little redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I would trade ROR for Pesce and something small, and I'd add something small to get Slavin, and the rest of their D I don't want for ROR. And it makes sense that Canes fans don't want him. They need their Jack Eichel, they have an ROR (Staal). He'd be an improvement to their lineup but also a little redundant. I need more than that for ROR. You don't want Noah Hanifin? Edited January 25, 2018 by SkuggaLiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I need more than that for ROR. You don't want Noah Hanifin? No, Slavin and Pesce are several steps ahead of Hanifin. Hanifin's numbers look pretty but he's not having a very good year https://streamable.com/26zmf Either one of those would go great lengths to fix our play in the d-zone single-handedly, we haven't had defensemen play like these two in our zone since at least Teppo's prime. Edited January 25, 2018 by Randall Flagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) No, Slavin and Pesce are several steps ahead of Hanifin. Hanifin's numbers look pretty but he's not having a very good year https://streamable.com/26zmf And both are older than Hanifin by 2 years. I will say I like Slavin a hell of a lot more than Pesce. Edited January 25, 2018 by SkuggaLiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 No, Slavin and Pesce are several steps ahead of Hanifin. Hanifin's numbers look pretty but he's not having a very good year https://streamable.com/26zmf Either one of those would go great lengths to fix our play in the d-zone single-handedly, we haven't had defensemen play like these two in our zone since at least Teppo's prime. That was an impressive clip And both are older than Hanifin by 2 years. I'll take two years for the proven commodity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 And both are older than Hanifin by 2 years. And? Pastrnak is 2 years older than A. Nylander and I don't expect him to come close to that level of production Similarly, and less extreme but I had to think of an example, Hanifin just doesn't play as well defensively as these two did last year or two years ago, let alone now (they were both top 15 in shot suppression last season and Slavin was actually in the top 15 D at even strength scoring as well) They're just on another level from Noah. Just because Noah's younger doesn't mean he'll have predictable linear development past those two. I'd put money on him never becoming the player those two are right now. Which is why my conclusion is that I'd trade ROR if the piece coming back was those two but not Noah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 That implies Hanifin isn't good and I just don't believe that. He's not not-good, that's not what you should be getting from this. He's not good enough for a top two-way center to be the return for him. He's having a fine year, but it's not all-star level despite his selection and his d-zone play can be nightmarish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 And? Pastrnak is 2 years older than A. Nylander and I don't expect him to come close to that level of production Similarly, and less extreme but I had to think of an example, Hanifin just doesn't play as well defensively as these two did last year or two years ago, let alone now (they were both top 15 in shot suppression last season and Slavin was actually in the top 15 D at even strength scoring as well) They're just on another level from Noah. Just because Noah's younger doesn't mean he'll have predictable linear development past those two. I'd put money on him never becoming the player those two are right now. Which is why my conclusion is that I'd trade ROR if the piece coming back was those two but not Noah. Okay that Slaving and First or a top prospect for ROR. I'm not trading ROR for Slavin. Slavin and Gauthier for ROR. That's what I would ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Okay that Slaving and First or a top prospect for ROR. I'm not trading ROR for Slavin. Slavin and Gauthier for ROR. That's what I would ask for. Your idea of these players' value is simply off. In the real world, we would have to add to ROR (not a lot) to get Slavin. Younger, better contract, and quite frankly, slightly better at what he does than ROR is already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Your idea of these players' value is simply off. In the real world, we would have to add to ROR (not a lot) to get Slavin. Younger, better contract, and quite frankly, slightly better at what he does than ROR is already. Im sorry but if that is the case I am out. ROR is a consistent 20 goal scoring center who is well known for his faceoff skills and 2way play. He creates a serious void on our 2nd line if we trade him. Slavin may be good but he has to be better than that and I don't see that. I think I like Slavin but I don't love him and that is the difference. Edited January 25, 2018 by SkuggaLiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Im sorry but if that is the case I am out. ROR is a consistent 20 goal scoring center who is well known for his faceoff skills and 2way play. He creates a serious void on our 2nd line if we trade him. Slavin may be good but he has to be better than that and I don't see that. I think I like Slavin but I don't love him and that is the difference. *Shrugs* Defensemen who are elite at defense (Slavin is very much top ten in the league in his own zone) are so rare. This team desperately needs someone who can shut plays down in their own zone and turn the ice the other way with quick skating and accurate breakout passes. If I could pick one player in the league for that specific role, based on age, contract, and ability, there is not another player I'd pick over him. We are not going to get a guy who can do that any other way than giving up something big. Dahlin is not close to guaranteed to having that defensive ability, and the other D in the draft even less so. It's not the flashiest role, but it's so necessary. ROR is a fun player, he's like the ~48th best scoring center over the last 3 years, and he's probably a top 15 defensive center (Kesler, Bergeron, Couturier, Kopitar, Koivu, Barkov, even Matthews all have a lot better shot suppression numbers at least since the last time I've checked, and more, this is just off the top of my head). Top 20 defensive forward and top 75-100 scoring forward. We haven't gotten anywhere with this, so that's why I'd trade it for a top 10 defensive defenseman who was top 15 among defensemen in scoring at even strength last season (he was the shutdown guy so power plays were his time to rest). But again, Carolina wouldn't do this, so I guess it's not worth discussing further. Edited January 25, 2018 by Randall Flagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I just don't believe there is no other way to get a defensive defender like Slavin. The draft is one way. Defenders slide in drafts every year. Slavin is a 4th rounder. That's not a knock on him or his draft slot. Just that defenders can be found in rounds 2-4 that are good defenders. We'll see what happens at the deadline. Edited January 25, 2018 by SkuggaLiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freester Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Abso-freakin'-lutely. For the record: it's a terrible strategy. Disagree on the tank strategy. It got us an elite player in Eichel but Murray made too many mistakes with all the capital. We could have been much farther along had we drafted Sergachev and Drasital instead of Nylander and Reinhart. Wasting a first round on Lehner was also absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 I just don't believe there is no other way to get a defensive defender like Slavin. The draft is one way. Defenders slide in drafts every year. Slavin is a 4th rounder. That's not a knock on him or his draft slot. Just that defenders can be found in rounds 2-4 that are good defenders. We'll see what happens at the deadline. Yeah I just mean that there's no way to get a guaranteed one for this/next season without trading a guy like ROR, Risto, or Eichel. If we wanted to fix this now and that deal was on the table I'd do it, is all my conclusion really is. I don't think it is and either team might not do it either way. I'm all for drafting D until we find the guys to fix things, but if we can't add guys in the offseason too it just extends our road back to success. It's a shame we didn't have a mountain of assets a while ago that, used correctly, could have had us in a much better spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Yeah I just mean that there's no way to get a guaranteed one for this/next season without trading a guy like ROR, Risto, or Eichel. If we wanted to fix this now and that deal was on the table I'd do it, is all my conclusion really is. I don't think it is and either team might not do it either way. I'm all for drafting D until we find the guys to fix things, but if we can't add guys in the offseason too it just extends our road back to success. It's a shame we didn't have a mountain of assets a while ago that, used correctly, could have had us in a much better spot I think if I were convinced that ROR will be replaced successfully by Mittelstadt and that Slavin is the real deal to fix a chunk of the defense, then I could get on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Abso-freakin'-lutely. For the record: it's a terrible strategy. Someone let the Blackhawks and Penguins know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 With Reinhart's Name appearing on the trade list, what would you have to add with him to get Hanifin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Someone let the Blackhawks and Penguins know. They can't hear you over their combined what? 6 cups in the last 12 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 With Reinhart's Name appearing on the trade list, what would you have to add with him to get Hanifin? Last year or the year before? Not so much. This year? A much better player than Reinhart haha Someone let the Blackhawks and Penguins know. The only time either of these teams tanked is the Pens for Lemieux having bad ownership and therefore a bad team is not the same as dropping a nuke onto your roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Last year or the year before? Not so much. This year? A much better player than Reinhart haha This is a great talking point. There’s no doubt current play has an effect, but I doubt GM takes on a player’s value swings as wildly as fan takes do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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